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Wimbledofy

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402502#msg402502
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2011, 04:56:28 am »
you dont have to fully abandon logic, but to be an intelligent person who believes in god, one has to believe that certain things can be above logic, because saying that god is logical is a limitation on omnipotence.
omnitpotence doesn't mean you can do everything. If omnipotence meant you could do everything than you can be omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time. It is not a limitation to omnipotence because God holds all power over his creation. THere are books that get into this alot deeper than i can. It touches on this topic very well in thhe book "Essential Truths of the Christian Faith" by RC sproul.

Offline russianspy1234

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402506#msg402506
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2011, 05:13:53 am »
[quote ]
you dont have to fully abandon logic, but to be an intelligent person who believes in god, one has to believe that certain things can be above logic, because saying that god is logical is a limitation on omnipotence.
omnitpotence doesn't mean you can do everything.
[/quote]
uh yes thats exactly what it means
If omnipotence meant you could do everything than you can be omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time.
you mean like jesus?

the old classic "can god make a stone so big even he cannot lift it" is a logical contradiction no matter how you answer it.  thus, in order for god to exist, he must be able to defy logic.
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Offline mildlyfrightenedboy

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402509#msg402509
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2011, 05:26:01 am »
Does that mean science is a religion too and that you shouldn't believe it because science can't even prove science? Meaning, you can't prove the scientific method with science, we just assume it to be true. And assuming science to be true, that is a proven fact.
How do you "prove" the scientific method? The scientific method is a process, not a belief. Comparing the scientific method to religion is like comparing a verb to a noun. Your argument makes no sense.
If science isn't proven, then nothing is.  Science proves itself because it always works, and if a single part of our knowledge of science does not work, then it is obviously incorrect, and there is a correct law of science that will be discovered.  Science is not a system of beliefs; it is a method used to obtain knowledge of the world that we live in.

On the other hand, religion is a large composition of stories passed down over thousands of years that people allow to govern their daily lives.  It is not entirely true at all.
For instance, Christianity once believed that the Earth was the center of the universe and that everything, including the Sun, rotated around it.  That was proven false.
Christianity states that God made all aquatic life on the sixth day, then all land life (save land plants, which were created on the fourth day) on the seventh day.  *cough* dinosaurs *cough*.  Also in the story of creation, it is said that God created day and night, then made the Sun three days later.  Most scientists believe that the Earth is about 4.6 billion years old, which conflicts with the story of creation also.  I am not even going to bring up evolution; that would take forever.

Religion is the old explanation of the universe, just as ancient mythology was before it.  Today's science is the new explanation.
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Offline russianspy1234

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402510#msg402510
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2011, 05:28:03 am »
  Also in the story of creation, it is said that God created day and night, then made the Sun three days later.
Would explain why we can see stars that are further away from earth than (speed of light) * (age of universe)
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Wimbledofy

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402514#msg402514
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2011, 05:35:09 am »
[quote ]
you dont have to fully abandon logic, but to be an intelligent person who believes in god, one has to believe that certain things can be above logic, because saying that god is logical is a limitation on omnipotence.
omnitpotence doesn't mean you can do everything.
uh yes thats exactly what it means
If omnipotence meant you could do everything than you can be omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time.
you mean like jesus?

the old classic "can god make a stone so big even he cannot lift it" is a logical contradiction no matter how you answer it.  thus, in order for god to exist, he must be able to defy logic.
[/quote] Jesus still was omnipotent, y don't you look it up so you can understand it better, since you aren't understanding what i am saying.

Offline mildlyfrightenedboy

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402516#msg402516
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2011, 05:43:51 am »
[quote ]
you dont have to fully abandon logic, but to be an intelligent person who believes in god, one has to believe that certain things can be above logic, because saying that god is logical is a limitation on omnipotence.
omnitpotence doesn't mean you can do everything.
uh yes thats exactly what it means
If omnipotence meant you could do everything than you can be omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time.
you mean like jesus?

the old classic "can god make a stone so big even he cannot lift it" is a logical contradiction no matter how you answer it.  thus, in order for god to exist, he must be able to defy logic.
Jesus still was omnipotent, y don't you look it up so you can understand it better, since you aren't understanding what i am saying.

[/quote]

The following is in accordance the the Christian religion and is not my own beliefs in any way:
Jesus is omnipotent because he is God, but he existed for a period of time as a human by choice so that he could bring word about the Kingdom of God and tell mankind about Judgement Day and other stuff.  He was omnipotent, but chose to be manifested as a human being.  Think of it as Superman when he is Clark Kent.
This thing seemed dead inside. It seemed like an automaton, trying to act like as if it was alive. The effect was unsettling.
Orianna made a sound that supposed to a girl's squeal of glee and hugged The Ball. While it might have been touching, it was unfortunately only horrifying.

Offline russianspy1234

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402517#msg402517
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2011, 05:45:35 am »
[quote ]
you dont have to fully abandon logic, but to be an intelligent person who believes in god, one has to believe that certain things can be above logic, because saying that god is logical is a limitation on omnipotence.
omnitpotence doesn't mean you can do everything.
uh yes thats exactly what it means
If omnipotence meant you could do everything than you can be omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time.
you mean like jesus?

the old classic "can god make a stone so big even he cannot lift it" is a logical contradiction no matter how you answer it.  thus, in order for god to exist, he must be able to defy logic.
Jesus still was omnipotent, y don't you look it up so you can understand it better, since you aren't understanding what i am saying.

The following is in accordance the the Christian religion and is not my own beliefs in any way:
Jesus is omnipotent because he is God, but he existed for a period of time as a human by choice so that he could bring word about the Kingdom of God and tell mankind about Judgement Day and other stuff.  He was omnipotent, but chose to be manifested as a human being.  Think of it as Superman when he is Clark Kent.
[/quote]
think of it more like the Hulk when he is Banner.
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Offline mildlyfrightenedboy

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402518#msg402518
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2011, 05:48:33 am »
We have managed to screw up quotes better than ever before seen.
This thing seemed dead inside. It seemed like an automaton, trying to act like as if it was alive. The effect was unsettling.
Orianna made a sound that supposed to a girl's squeal of glee and hugged The Ball. While it might have been touching, it was unfortunately only horrifying.

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402520#msg402520
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2011, 05:51:11 am »
Quote
you dont have to fully abandon logic, but to be an intelligent person who believes in god, one has to believe that certain things can be above logic, because saying that god is logical is a limitation on omnipotence.
omnitpotence doesn't mean you can do everything.
uh yes thats exactly what it means
If omnipotence meant you could do everything than you can be omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time.
you mean like jesus?

the old classic "can god make a stone so big even he cannot lift it" is a logical contradiction no matter how you answer it.  thus, in order for god to exist, he must be able to defy logic.
Jesus still was omnipotent, y don't you look it up so you can understand it better, since you aren't understanding what i am saying.

The following is in accordance the the Christian religion and is not my own beliefs in any way:
Jesus is omnipotent because he is God, but he existed for a period of time as a human by choice so that he could bring word about the Kingdom of God and tell mankind about Judgement Day and other stuff.  He was omnipotent, but chose to be manifested as a human being.  Think of it as Superman when he is Clark Kent.
think of it more like the Hulk when he is Banner.
Problem solved.

Wimbledofy

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402522#msg402522
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2011, 05:53:29 am »
This is for those if any that think science can prove anything. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkBD20edOc
((almost put the word everything but science definitely can't prove something that is false otherwise it wouldn't be proven.))

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402524#msg402524
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2011, 05:56:27 am »
((almost put the word everything but science definitely can't prove something that is false otherwise it wouldn't be proven.))
However, it can prove the correct truth value of something that is false.

Wimbledofy

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Re: Logic Restriction https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28147.msg402527#msg402527
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2011, 06:03:48 am »
? lol you typed really small

 

anything
blarg: