Jesus' fame

[Savage]

I was talking with a pastor recently and he brought up something very interesting about Jesus I have never thought of before: Why did the people of Israel flock to Jesus? (which is said in the bible multiple times).

In short, we were going over the oral culture of the time and the fact that Jesus had 'more' to give, even better things to say (wisdom), was not only shocking, but profound and when people saw this new wisdom, they wanted to know even more from him.

My question: people used to tell me that people flocked to Jesus because he was God, but given this new information, what does that say about God's divinity? Also, maybe some of you know interesting points you would like to add concerning oral culture (stuff people don't really know).

[furballdn]

I don't know. Why didn't they flock over to Mohammed or some other messiah? I'm not too clear on what you're trying to ask, so I think I'll just answer why I think that the people of Israel "flocked" to Jesus. Jesus was Jewish first, and perhaps the people of Israel identify more with that? There also could be the fact that Jesus was martyred on the crucifix, contributing to the spread of his fame and word. Finally, there was a lot of Roman spreading and influence after Constantine the great.

[Savage]

I mean during Jesus' reign. And you have to remember, being jewish didn't mean people would flock to you to learn.

--->If you flock to someone because he is God, you are admitting he has divinity. If you flock because he has great wisdom--->doesn't that treat him as a teacher more than treating him as god?

[furballdn]

Christianity was never really big during Jesus's lifetime. It mainly grew because of COnstantine and the Romans later. As for teacher, there were a lot of roles Jesus played in early Christianity, from a teacher to a messiah to pantokrator.

[sixers]

He probably didn't exist

[neuroleptics]

the question to the answer of y people flocked to Jesus
1) at that time, Jews were under roman oppression and long for a saviour, a king, that would battle them to victory. Jesus came and at the age of 30 began his ministry, right after baptised by John the Baptise. John was consider as the come again Elijah, a great prophet. John himself considered himself unworthy and Jesus was thought to be the prophesied king. His ministry however was different. It touches on the 'Kingdom of God' more and when he died, most people left as they thought that's the end of a revival.
Jesus however was recorded to be resurrected 3 days later.The disciples who scattered came back and preached the Good News. Some even risked their lives. The question of whether they speak the truth always accompanied by science and miracles as recorded. Some contradicted that even witches can perform. however, looking back at history, it is generally believed Bible to be reliable as historians proved that the recording were true one by one.

[sixers]

Worth a listen if you are really interested

[MartyMo]

I find it interesting that some people truly believe that Jesus "saved" us and that there is a make-up of energy called "God" that listens to each and everyones' prayers.  Isnt this strange considering that there are more people in the world who have never heard of jesus and believe in other things (people from India, China, etc.)?

[Zso_Zso]

Worth a listen if you are really interested

I admit I only watched the first 15 minutes -- I started watching it because I am interested in seeing a proper scientific approach being applied to research historical facts surrounding the existence or myth of Jesus. However, I get the impression (at least from the first 15 minutes, correct me if this later changes) that the presenter follows the infamous pattern that Hari Seldon pointed out as a clear sign of fatal degradation of science:
No new data or evidence is being presented. The entire work of the scholar consists of reading and re-interpreting material and data collected and presented by other authors. While it is important to have review works that categorize and summarize the work of others, it is dangerous to draw new conclusions (especially ones that contradict the conclusion of the source author) without new supporting data.

[ElementalDearWatson]

People can be listened to for all sorts of reasons.  "FOAR EVERYWUN FRUM BOXXY" has sixteen and a half million views on YouTube.  She's started wars, got mainstream press attention, and garnered a cult-like band of followers.  None of that makes Boxxy divine or wise.

I'd say that it probably boils down to a couple of things - right place at the right time, and charisma.  And, probably, self-perpetuating hype.  There comes a point in some movements where the sheer momentum of the movement itself causes it to grow bigger.  People buy in to it simply because it's a thing that other people are buying in to.

[Savage]

Jesus:

According to the bible, never claimed to be God, but did so by 3 things: challenging authority, amazing wisdom, divinity.

1) Claimed to be greater than John the Baptist and Moses who were at the time considered the greatest people ever under God himself. Notice how John the Baptist makes himself lower than Jesus---> that was one of the ways He challenged authority.

b) could forgive anyone. In jewish culture, the only people who could forgive one another were those involved in a situation (like a fight) or god himself. Now, when Jesus healed the man's leprosy by forgiving him, could any ordinary man do that? No, but could God? yes. This is why the Pharisees were upset, they interpreted Jesus claiming to be God, which was supported by the man being healed.

Note: Jesus never wanted us to focus on his miracles as they do not help support his divinity. I know there is so much philosphical debate on that and it is stupid considering Jesus is in agreement that we should not focus on miracles.

2) Even at a young age he was giving people new information.

Look at it this way:

A culture that claimed to know the scriptures inside and out strictly and yet Jesus claimed to know more and everything he said matched up. (support is PhD Bruce M. Metzger)

3) his divinity was recorded.

Please read 'the case for christ' parts on the reliability of the scriptures as the documents are very valid and reliable.
Other sources:

Phd's:
Edwin M. Yamauchi

John Mcray



If you beg to differ, I can post what each scholar above is an expert in and give their professional opinion incase you disagree from one of these standpoints

[BeefSupreme]

I have no real information to contribute, but I'd just like to leave this here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvVr2uks0C8