*Author

Scaredgirl

  • Guest
IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59783#msg59783
« on: April 27, 2010, 10:02:22 am »
IQ vs. Religiosity

I found this interesting article on the interwebz. It's a study made in multiple countries that examined the correlation between IQ and how important people see religion. Results are interesting because they clearly state that the more intelligent you are, the less likely it is that you are religious.



Link to full article: http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/iq_vs_religiosity.htm
Similar article: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/religion_vs_iq.html#UXqvq3RImo3q


Now before I start getting angry PM's, I'd like to clarify that I'm not of course saying all religious people are idiots. I'm just reporting the facts of this study which I find interesting and something everyone should think about.

What do you think about this study? Are non-religious people smarter on average, or does this study fail somehow?

Discuss.

Offline Kamietsu

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3228
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 47
  • Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • Old to Elements
  • Awards: Spell Art Competition WinnerWinner of the MASH-UP CompetitionFunny Card Competition WinnerWinner of
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59787#msg59787
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 10:18:08 am »
I have to agree with it for the most part. Not that they are just idiots, but typically, those without religion seek to find answers to their questions that religious people may just believe their higher power did it. Of course, I also don't believe the stats are 100% true because they could have easily been swayed either way. But generally speaking, religious people will rely more on faith while the non-religious will go out and find scientific answers for whatever they question, so they are actively trying to learn more.
╔╦╦═╦══╦╗  ( ̄ー ̄) --Snorlax says:
║═╣╬║║║║║    Eat your shower, brush your toothpaste, take your teeth.
╚╩╩╩╩╩╩╩╝

Offline Jangoo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 877
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Jangoo hides under a Cloak.
  • New to You
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59804#msg59804
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 11:02:49 am »


Damnit, the Japanese and SouthKoreans beat the Germans to the IQ-score.

Personally, I can see how this study certainly reflects the reality.
But then again the whole idea of an IQ is invented and defined by the (mostly unreligious) scientists of modern, secular societies so it does seem kind of tautological. As if they were saying: "Look, the followers of our scientific worldview correspond most with the criteria of measurement which our science has developed."

This may go as far as making certain skills and qualities a part of the test while others remain totally untouched. Why, for example, is someone who can count a number of geometrical shapes on a piece of paper considered "smart" and someone who can actually make practical use of geometry while building a square house for himself or shaping a perfectly round clay-pot is not?

From what I understand, IQ measures almost only "explicit" forms of knowledge: All that knowledge which can be verbally expressed and put down on paper, which goes perfectly with a paper-, data- and quantification-obsessed society.
Actually knowing core-concepts without being able to explain them, knowing how to DO things is the vast (and largely unexplored) domain of "implicit" or "tacit" knowledge, which is hardly measured in an IQ test.

So what it boils down to for me are the questions:
What exactly is the IQ-score actually expressing? What doesn't it express?



xpanterx

  • Guest
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59825#msg59825
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 11:57:25 am »
If there's any truth to this, I think it would be because highly religous people devote their time to God more then to studying science. I don't think their is a difference between the 2 groups from birth, the only difference is what they do with their time. Personally I would rather go to heaven then win lots of awards, but thats me...

Offline Kamietsu

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3228
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 47
  • Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • Old to Elements
  • Awards: Spell Art Competition WinnerWinner of the MASH-UP CompetitionFunny Card Competition WinnerWinner of
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59831#msg59831
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 12:23:11 pm »
If there's any truth to this, I think it would be because highly religous people devote their time to God more then to studying science. I don't think their is a difference between the 2 groups from birth, the only difference is what they do with their time. Personally I would rather go to heaven then win lots of awards, but thats me...
I understand your point, but then you tack on "Personally I would rather go to heaven then win lots of awards, but thats me..." which makes you sound rather ignorant. People don't study just to win awards. They do it for all kinds of different reasons, most of which I would believe are to better our understanding of the world and our universe. And in no way does being a part of science, or studying in a field(regardless of the field) does it mean you can't go to heaven. Intellect and religion can 100% easily coexist. It's not a matter of being smart, or being religious. It's just a tendency that religious people look for less answers to their questions because they tend to believe their higher power is the answer, while non-religious people look for a more tangible answer.
╔╦╦═╦══╦╗  ( ̄ー ̄) --Snorlax says:
║═╣╬║║║║║    Eat your shower, brush your toothpaste, take your teeth.
╚╩╩╩╩╩╩╩╝

Scaredgirl

  • Guest
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59844#msg59844
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 12:42:03 pm »
Jangoo, "shaping a perfectly round clay-pot" requires very little intelligence. I could train a monkey to do that. This like that are more about life experience and wisdom then intelligence. Shaping a clay-pot is something you learn by practicing. Nobody is born with that skill.


If there's any truth to this, I think it would be because highly religous people devote their time to God more then to studying science. I don't think their is a difference between the 2 groups from birth, the only difference is what they do with their time. Personally I would rather go to heaven then win lots of awards, but thats me...
IQ tests don't measure how much you know about science. There are many people with high IQ's that are not scientists and know nothing about science.

IQ is like the "processing power" of your brain. It's not about how much you know, it's about how fast and efficiently you can process new information. A good example of this would be the fact that intelligent people learn much faster than less intelligent people. This is why smart people get better grades in school - studying is easier for them (although some get good grades simply by working hard).

I'd also like to add that the way you imply scientist do their work just because they want to "win lots of awards" is highly offensive. We are talking about a group of people who devote their lives helping us to understand the world. When you get really sick and are taken to hospital, it's the medical science (not religion) that will save you, so please have some respect towards the people who make that possible.

Offline xdude

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3566
  • Reputation Power: 39
  • xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.xdude is a Gargoyle, dangerous and everlasting.
  • Rage potting a light dragon only makes it stronger
  • Awards: 5th Trials - Master of Light2nd Trials - Master of Light1st Trials - Master of Light1st Place SS Competition #2
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59888#msg59888
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 02:14:27 pm »
Jangoo, "shaping a perfectly round clay-pot" requires very little intelligence. I could train a monkey to do that. This like that are more about life experience and wisdom then intelligence. Shaping a clay-pot is something you learn by practicing. Nobody is born with that skill.


If there's any truth to this, I think it would be because highly religous people devote their time to God more then to studying science. I don't think their is a difference between the 2 groups from birth, the only difference is what they do with their time. Personally I would rather go to heaven then win lots of awards, but thats me...
IQ tests don't measure how much you know about science. There are many people with high IQ's that are not scientists and know nothing about science.

IQ is like the "processing power" of your brain. It's not about how much you know, it's about how fast and efficiently you can process new information. A good example of this would be the fact that intelligent people learn much faster than less intelligent people. This is why smart people get better grades in school - studying is easier for them (although some get good grades simply by working hard).

I'd also like to add that the way you imply scientist do their work just because they want to "win lots of awards" is highly offensive. We are talking about a group of people who devote their lives helping us to understand the world. When you get really sick and are taken to hospital, it's the medical science (not religion) that will save you, so please have some respect towards the people who make that possible.

No, it's god :D :P
Personal text by Cheesy
When I first started elements I was a noob. Now I'm a noob in only 11 parts of it. The unimportant ones.
Saying Elements cards are just pixels is like saying Dollars are just paper.

Offline Kamietsu

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3228
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 47
  • Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • Old to Elements
  • Awards: Spell Art Competition WinnerWinner of the MASH-UP CompetitionFunny Card Competition WinnerWinner of
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59890#msg59890
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 02:16:41 pm »
Jangoo, "shaping a perfectly round clay-pot" requires very little intelligence. I could train a monkey to do that. This like that are more about life experience and wisdom then intelligence. Shaping a clay-pot is something you learn by practicing. Nobody is born with that skill.


If there's any truth to this, I think it would be because highly religous people devote their time to God more then to studying science. I don't think their is a difference between the 2 groups from birth, the only difference is what they do with their time. Personally I would rather go to heaven then win lots of awards, but thats me...
IQ tests don't measure how much you know about science. There are many people with high IQ's that are not scientists and know nothing about science.

IQ is like the "processing power" of your brain. It's not about how much you know, it's about how fast and efficiently you can process new information. A good example of this would be the fact that intelligent people learn much faster than less intelligent people. This is why smart people get better grades in school - studying is easier for them (although some get good grades simply by working hard).

I'd also like to add that the way you imply scientist do their work just because they want to "win lots of awards" is highly offensive. We are talking about a group of people who devote their lives helping us to understand the world. When you get really sick and are taken to hospital, it's the medical science (not religion) that will save you, so please have some respect towards the people who make that possible.

No, it's god :D :P
Totally. God put all the plants, and rocks, and minerals there and then said "You figure out how you can put that stuff together. I'm going to go watch some tv"
╔╦╦═╦══╦╗  ( ̄ー ̄) --Snorlax says:
║═╣╬║║║║║    Eat your shower, brush your toothpaste, take your teeth.
╚╩╩╩╩╩╩╩╝

Hobnob5000

  • Guest
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59920#msg59920
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 03:24:32 pm »
Interesting. I would have expected it to be like a quadratic curve though, as the religious people don't search for answers, they can say "It was all God", and yet the real dimbos are often completely secular. I've never met a person who is highly religious, and uniltelligent.

Offline Kamietsu

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3228
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 47
  • Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • Old to Elements
  • Awards: Spell Art Competition WinnerWinner of the MASH-UP CompetitionFunny Card Competition WinnerWinner of
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59927#msg59927
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 03:36:42 pm »
Interesting. I would have expected it to be like a quadratic curve though, as the religious people don't search for answers, they can say "It was all God", and yet the real dimbos are often completely secular. I've never met a person who is highly religious, and uniltelligent.
I've met more than my fair share of religiously unintelligent people.

Haha, yes, i did mean fair share, fixed it XP
╔╦╦═╦══╦╗  ( ̄ー ̄) --Snorlax says:
║═╣╬║║║║║    Eat your shower, brush your toothpaste, take your teeth.
╚╩╩╩╩╩╩╩╝

Hobnob5000

  • Guest
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59930#msg59930
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 03:39:19 pm »
Interesting. I would have expected it to be like a quadratic curve though, as the religious people don't search for answers, they can say "It was all God", and yet the real dimbos are often completely secular. I've never met a person who is highly religious, and uniltelligent.
I've met more than my fair shave of religiously unintelligent people.
I presume you meant fair share

That's interesting, I can think of one religious unintelligent person, and he's only about 10% religious. The rest seem to be switched on. Oh well

Scaredgirl

  • Guest
Re: IQ vs. Religiosity https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5834.msg59933#msg59933
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2010, 03:50:40 pm »
Interesting. I would have expected it to be like a quadratic curve though, as the religious people don't search for answers, they can say "It was all God", and yet the real dimbos are often completely secular. I've never met a person who is highly religious, and uniltelligent.
I've met more than my fair shave of religiously unintelligent people.
I presume you meant fair share

That's interesting, I can think of one religious unintelligent person, and he's only about 10% religious. The rest seem to be switched on. Oh well
Estimating IQ can be difficult sometimes. People might seem normal and well-spoken which can easily be confused with being smart. And of course there's also the fact that you are most likely talking about a very close circle of people so the margin of error is huge. You have probably never met any "religious nuts" but they are out there, and there's a lot of them.

The study I talk about on this thread had a very large sample of people from all over the world. Studies like that always give 1000 times more accurate results than personal experiences of only one person.

 

blarg: