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Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg272142#msg272142
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2011, 10:16:08 pm »

My only point to this topic is to make the point that it is ridiculous to say "there is no god" or even go specific and say "There is no Muslim/Christian/Jewish God" With as little as we know, it is ridiculous to make such assertions. Saying "there is not currently any evidence" would be fine, however, making the statement that he doesnt, is absurd.
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Offline Kamietsu

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg272147#msg272147
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2011, 10:21:23 pm »
Beings or entities that could be seen as gods, or God could exist as well. There is just as much of a chance of a being that came to earth a long time ago and started the human race based off of their own race. Maybe we are the result of random experiments they did on their own race and were found to be vastly inferior and left on this giant ball of rock and water, almost in exile. In a sense, that original being that placed us here would be equivalent to God.

Or maybe there exists out there hovering over us all in an invisible dimension that we cannot observe, melllvar is there as God, creating us, guiding us, punishing us, etc.

Science fiction is a wonderful genre(Star Trek in particular) that shows just how infinite things could possibly be. We know so little and will always know so little when compared to what does, or can exist. I believe, unless God, gods, goddesses, deities, entities, whathaveyou, reveal themselves to us, we will never know them. Unless we run into one randomly through our space exploration days(if we even make it to that point in our lifespan as a species) similar to how they do on Star Trek XP

But really, being unable to prove God's existence(or any other god, gods, goddess, or goddesses) is all apart of their essence, and the essence of the religion behind them. Faith isn't about science, and science isn't about faith. Using one to prove or disprove the other is a pointless battle that will never cease to exist. It's like trying to make the color white on a black piece of paper with black paint. It's just not gonna happen.

I'm not religious. But I keep my mind open as much as I possibly can which makes religion an easy and fun topic to discuss. I don't denounce God, gods, goddesses, deities, whatever, I don't really even say He or any of them don't exist. I keep myself more on probability of what we've seen. he, or them, could exist. Probability supports that with an infinite amount of time, such a being is bound to exist eventually. But there are so many possiblities it makes us, as humans, unable to conceive every possibility. We have to limit ourselves, or else nothing would get done because we'd be doing nothing but imagining and not physically doing anything. God might or might not exist. It's like a Schrodinger's Cat. Only in this case, it's a box we are currently unable to open.

My only point to this topic is to make the point that it is ridiculous to say "there is no god" or even go specific and say "There is no Muslim/Christian/Jewish God" With as little as we know, it is ridiculous to make such assertions. Saying "there is not currently any evidence" would be fine, however, making the statement that he doesnt, is absurd.
"There is no god." I find is just as ridiculous as "There is a god." Both are definitive statements that given the infinite amount of knowledge, it's currently, and for the foreseeable future, impossible to know which statement is true. Maybe they both are, or neither. Probability and possibility are funny things.
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Offline Daytripper

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg272155#msg272155
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2011, 10:26:16 pm »
Only strong atheists say there is absolutely no God, BP. Usually people lack belief or are not convinced, in other words, don't believe it. That is all fair enough. How can you say you believe something if you're not convinced? Impossible if you ask me.

The Christian God is a different story. This God is often depicted with conflicting abilities. We can say that as such, this God can't exist. But that really depends on your definition of the Christian God.

 
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Offline Kamietsu

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg272162#msg272162
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2011, 10:31:15 pm »
Only strong atheists say there is absolutely no God, BP. Usually people lack belief or are not convinced, in other words, don't believe it. That is all fair enough. How can you say you believe something if you're not convinced? Impossible if you ask me.

The Christian God is a different story. This God is often depicted with conflicting abilities. We can say that as such, this God can't exist. But that really depends on your definition of the Christian God.
Your first statement is extremely wrong. Not only just strong atheists say there is no God. many people, all with different strengths of opinions can say there is or is no God.

Your second statement is just as false. the Christian God is all powerful, all seeing, all knowing, and everywhere. The conflicting abilities you mention could possibly not conflicting for Him at all, and instead, a part of His design.
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Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg272163#msg272163
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2011, 10:33:03 pm »
Your second statement is just as false. the Christian God is all powerful, all seeing, all knowing, and everywhere. The conflicting abilities you mention could possibly not conflicting for Him at all, and instead, a part of His design.
That reminds me of ratcharmer saying
Quote
God can create an object too heavy for him to lift, and then lift it
or something like that...
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Offline Kamietsu

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg272171#msg272171
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2011, 10:39:12 pm »
Haha, that's sort of exactly it. But conflicting does not equal something being false. Otherwise, humans don't exist. We are the most conflicting creature I know of. I'm not just talking about hypocrisy, how we will say not to do something and then in turn do it ourself. I mean more along the line of our emotions and our thoughts. They can be constantly conflicting and yet make sense. 

Besides, the records of these conflicts about God could be human error. The bible has been passed down through the human line for such a long time, it's rather foolish to believe the bible word for word and consider every single word 100% fact. Man is sinful, man is corrupt, and sometimes they do things to gain power, or just for fun. I believe the bible teaches good things, especially moral wise, but I also believe the bible has been changed little by little over the years to what it was when the original scrolls were found.
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Offline Neopergoss

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg272173#msg272173
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2011, 10:39:50 pm »
My only point to this topic is to make the point that it is ridiculous to say "there is no god" or even go specific and say "There is no Muslim/Christian/Jewish God" With as little as we know, it is ridiculous to make such assertions. Saying "there is not currently any evidence" would be fine, however, making the statement that he doesnt, is absurd.
My only point to this topic is to make the point that it is ridiculous to say "there is no alien in my closet" or even go specific and say "there is no alien named steve with thirteen green toenails in my closet" With as little as we know, it is ridiculous to make such assertions. Saying "there is not currently any evidence" would be fine, however, making the statement that there isnt, is absurd.

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg272428#msg272428
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2011, 05:16:32 am »
My only point to this topic is to make the point that it is ridiculous to say "there is no god" or even go specific and say "There is no Muslim/Christian/Jewish God" With as little as we know, it is ridiculous to make such assertions. Saying "there is not currently any evidence" would be fine, however, making the statement that he doesnt, is absurd.
But with as little as we know, it is also ridiculous to say that the Christian God is the real one, and Christianity is the one true path of humanity.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg272889#msg272889
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2011, 12:14:45 am »
Not a lot. 

To answer the expanded question, it's a mathematical truth that in an infinite space everything that call happen, will at some point happen. 

If something has or has not happened however, is a subject of great debate.  Also, because we lack any real idea of what the universe was like before we started studying it, anything may have happened. 

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg274144#msg274144
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2011, 09:49:39 pm »
This thread comes across as deliberately disingenuous in the face of previous discussions we've had in this subforum.

Only strong atheists say there is absolutely no God, BP. Usually people lack belief or are not convinced, in other words, don't believe it. That is all fair enough. How can you say you believe something if you're not convinced? Impossible if you ask me.

The Christian God is a different story. This God is often depicted with conflicting abilities. We can say that as such, this God can't exist. But that really depends on your definition of the Christian God.
Your first statement is extremely wrong. Not only just strong atheists say there is no God. many people, all with different strengths of opinions can say there is or is no God.

Your second statement is just as false. the Christian God is all powerful, all seeing, all knowing, and everywhere. The conflicting abilities you mention could possibly not conflicting for Him at all, and instead, a part of His design.
Actually, he's entirely correct. By definition only Strong Atheists say that there are definitely no god or gods.

Also his argument was not about your definition of the Christian God, but the specific formulation that he constructed in his post. What he is saying is that a being which is definitionally self-contradictory is one that is easier to discard.

Offline Ekki

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg274171#msg274171
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2011, 10:25:25 pm »
Actually, he's entirely correct. By definition only Strong Atheists say that there are definitely no god or gods.

Also his argument was not about your definition of the Christian God, but the specific formulation that he constructed in his post. What he is saying is that a being which is definitionally self-contradictory is one that is easier to discard.
It's funny how everything can be true, and at the same time, nothing that we say is true.

We, humans, have our means of comunication, whitin ourselves and with our environment. That leads to think that "something can't happen" because we think it's illogical. There are lots of things that we may think that are illogical, when they aren't.

This is sooo Schrod's Cat. We can't define the truth, so both God exists and doesn't, and all of you are wrong and right, and there are infinite realities that make everything that you say true, and moar infinite ones that prove you wrong, and blah blah blah... It's interesting to discuss, but I get to a point where it's too repetitive :D

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: How much knowledge do we have? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=21281.msg274213#msg274213
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2011, 11:11:40 pm »
This is sooo Schrod's Cat. We can't define the truth, so both God exists and doesn't, and all of you are wrong and right, and there are infinite realities that make everything that you say true, and moar infinite ones that prove you wrong, and blah blah blah... It's interesting to discuss, but I get to a point where it's too repetitive :D
Exactly. God doesn't exist for me because I haven't observed Him. In general His existence is indeterminate.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

 

anything
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