How did you choose your religion? Or was it chosen for you?

[esran]

i do not believe religion is irrational, nor do i believe atheism is irratiional. rationality itself must be determined from those beliefs.
if you are christian, and devote your life to helping others and being a good person, you are rational.
if you are christian, and yet do things the bible says you will go to hell for, you are irrational.
if you believe that what goes around comes around, and you do good deeds, you are rational.
on the other hand if you believe in a disconnect between action and consequence, and doing good deeds cannot help you, than the rational thing to do is to only do things to help yourself.
with this information, it can be determined that whether or not religion is real, it is a good thing assuming poeple will act rationally. however there is evidence that people dont.

[Cel]

@Keovar
Whew! That was quite a text wall to read through.
I only have one thing to say:
  If your step mom really truly believes in god, heaven, and hell, and that to not believe in this god will bring you to hell, then attempting to not convert you would basically be like watching you walk in front of a bus (in her eyes,) why wouldn't she try to save you? Sure, the obviousness is annoying, and the DVDs and books that you don't even care about, but think about it kind of like this; it's her way of showing her love and affection for you.
  If she didn't even try it'd be like this; 'sure I know my ex-stepson, who was there with me through some of the worst days of my life as a support and anchor, is going to spend eternity in endless agony and suffering, but do I really want to make myself (and possibly him) uncomfortable with this gift? Eh, I'll just buy him this T-Shirt.'

[nerd1]

I'd like to point out that this is not neccessarily a bad thing- the major monotheistic religions (judaism, christianatity, and Islam) each recognize the others beliefs to an extent, and say that even devotees from other religions can still get to heaven, implying that while each religion believes itself to be more right, being a good person and believing in a higher power are the prime factors in determining whether a person will get to heaven,giving theist agnostics a good chance of getting into heaven (if they are moral people, obviously.)

edit: concerning free will, altbough I don't know if there is a legitimate "normal" proof of it, the theist proof is "god=omnipotent" "god says there is free will," "q.e.d. there is free will," once you take take omnipotence into account, most paradoxes about religion vanish, although this only works for paradoxes.

[Cheesy111]

i do not believe religion is irrational, nor do i believe atheism is irratiional. rationality itself must be determined from those beliefs.
if you are christian, and devote your life to helping others and being a good person, you are rational.
if you are christian, and yet do things the bible says you will go to hell for, you are irrational.
if you believe that what goes around comes around, and you do good deeds, you are rational.
on the other hand if you believe in a disconnect between action and consequence, and doing good deeds cannot help you, than the rational thing to do is to only do things to help yourself.
with this information, it can be determined that whether or not religion is real, it is a good thing assuming poeple will act rationally. however there is evidence that people dont.

Sorry to derail this a bit, but are you saying that beliefs in and of themselves cannot be rational/irrational? Or that "beliefs" only applies to religious beliefs?

[esran]

yes, that pretty much sums up what i said. no belief can be irrational or rational. rationality is determined by how you act in accordance with your belief.

[Annele]

yes, that pretty much sums up what i said. no belief can be irrational or rational. rationality is determined by how you act in accordance with your belief.

Like Hitler was christian, but he was a horrible man who did horrible things, and Jesus was a christian and was a rational person who did rational things.
Whether or not you believe Jesuswas the Son of God, he still lived and did good things.

[esran]

yes, that pretty much sums up what i said. no belief can be irrational or rational. rationality is determined by how you act in accordance with your belief.

Like Hitler was christian, but he was a horrible man who did horrible things, and Jesus was a christian and was a rational person who did rational things.
Whether or not you believe Jesuswas the Son of God, he still lived and did good things.

exactly. you probably just mistyped but Jesus was Jewish.
but its not just what you do, its what you do in accordance with your beliefs. doign good deeds doesnt neccecarily mean you are rational.
if my belief is that kicking puppies means i go to heaven, and i spend all day kicking puppies, i would be acting rational in accordance with my belief.
until someone figures out a way to disprove the fact that theoretically any belief could be true, rationality must be determined by its coexistence with belief.
and thus any bad deed can be considered rational for a given belief set.

[Annele]

yes, that pretty much sums up what i said. no belief can be irrational or rational. rationality is determined by how you act in accordance with your belief.

Like Hitler was christian, but he was a horrible man who did horrible things, and Jesus was a christian and was a rational person who did rational things.
Whether or not you believe Jesuswas the Son of God, he still lived and did good things.

exactly. you probably just mistyped but Jesus was Jewish.
but its not just what you do, its what you do in accordance with your beliefs. doign good deeds doesnt neccecarily mean you are rational.
if my belief is that kicking puppies means i go to heaven, and i spend all day kicking puppies, i would be acting rational in accordance with my belief.
until someone figures out a way to disprove the fact that theoretically any belief could be true, rationality must be determined by its coexistence with belief.
and thus any bad deed can be considered rational for a given belief set.

Jesus had christian veiws. But let's not get into an argument about it.
If Hitler had a religion in which killing jews was a regular practice, he would be rational. But that does not mean he would have been good.

[Jenkar]

In his own moral views, yes it'd mean that.

[Absol]

Wow. Godwin's law. And in a way i've never seen before, too.
I have nothing to say, only watching this.

[esran]

Fine. by what i have siad yes, i will admit that from the perspective of hitlers own moral beliefs, his actions are considered rational to him.
but that isnt the point im trying to make.
my point is that you shouldnt judge poeple based on their religion or beliefs, ad instead judge them based on the actions they take in conjuction with those beliefs.
in cases like hitler where his belief system so far differs from ours to the extent that things that are rational from his perspective are heinous and the worst of crimes from ours, empathizing is impossible, and thus we cannot judge him from his own belief system.
what my point was sopposed to be applied to was more the political arguments, and not crimes. for example, poeple who fight in wars believe that by doing so they are helping thier countries, and thus act rationally to their beliefs. poeple who protest those same wars believe the wars hurt their countries, and thus by protesting they act rationally for their beliefs. whether or not you support the war, you must judge them in conjuction totheir beliefs
more specifically i wanted to apply this to religion, but i wont list specifics for fear of offending others. suffice to say i dont care what religion you are, or if you are atheist, as longas you are not a hypocrite and act in conjuction with your own beliefs.

[Jenkar]

That would be an ideal world, and it would be highly impractical.
Say, someone has the belief ''everyone should die''. And acts accordingly. He'd destroy the society, therefore placing the value ''good'' on him is a social suicide. Hence why people are judged by peopllre's bias and not their own.