*Author

Offline BluePriest

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3771
  • Reputation Power: 46
  • BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • Entropy Has You
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg367388#msg367388
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2011, 12:43:07 pm »
Is God a perfect role model? Given the tales of murder, genocide, and other horrors attributed to God in the Bible, I would say no. If you ever met someone who acted in those ways, you would not praise him or want others to emulate him.
Its the classic good guy bad guy scenario. Batman, superman, and every other superhero are equally guilty by that respect. And cops. Dont forget about cops.
This sig was interrupted by Joe Biden

Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg367412#msg367412
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2011, 03:06:58 pm »
Quote
Yes, because some people use the word Omnipotence to mean "ability to do anything logically possible or logically impossible" rather than use it to mean "ability to do anything logically possible". Identifying which concept a person is using is important to avoid miscommunication.

Sidenote: I personally agree that "ability to do anything possible" is a more useful concept but my beliefs do not change what other people mean.
So we're dumbing things down, eh?  :)

But yeah, if someone doesn't understand how the definition of "possible" makes "ability to do the impossible" a nonsense statement, I guess we have to pander.  *shrug*

Offline Belthus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 482
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • Belthus is a Spark waiting for a buff.
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg367433#msg367433
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2011, 04:19:51 pm »
Is God a perfect role model? Given the tales of murder, genocide, and other horrors attributed to God in the Bible, I would say no. If you ever met someone who acted in those ways, you would not praise him or want others to emulate him.
Its the classic good guy bad guy scenario. Batman, superman, and every other superhero are equally guilty by that respect. And cops. Dont forget about cops.
So you are saying that sometimes genocide is justified? When God purportedly killed every firstborn in Egypt, was every firstborn deserving of that execution? If you break God's laws, do your children deserve to be killed by animals, as God purportedly vowed to make happen? Did every human being who purportedly died in Noah's flood deserve to die? And you believe that this God is a good role model for police? Maybe you think that the KGB and the Gestapo were ideal police.

Offline maverixkTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 508
  • Reputation Power: 7
  • maverixk is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • I have an 'x' instead of a 'c'. I know you jellin'
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg367627#msg367627
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2011, 01:29:31 am »
Is God a perfect role model? Given the tales of murder, genocide, and other horrors attributed to God in the Bible, I would say no. If you ever met someone who acted in those ways, you would not praise him or want others to emulate him.
Its the classic good guy bad guy scenario. Batman, superman, and every other superhero are equally guilty by that respect. And cops. Dont forget about cops.
So you are saying that sometimes genocide is justified? When God purportedly killed every firstborn in Egypt, was every firstborn deserving of that execution? If you break God's laws, do your children deserve to be killed by animals, as God purportedly vowed to make happen? Did every human being who purportedly died in Noah's flood deserve to die? And you believe that this God is a good role model for police? Maybe you think that the KGB and the Gestapo were ideal police.
While I think that some of your points might not be exactly what I'm trying to say, that general message is exactly what I'm trying to convey through this thread.
Basically:
Is God a perfect role model? Given the tales of murder, genocide, and other horrors attributed to God in the Bible, I would say no. If you ever met someone who acted in those ways, you would not praise him or want others to emulate him.
"Are you ... comparing me to God? I mean, that's great, but just so you know, I've never made a tree." -House

Offline BluePriest

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3771
  • Reputation Power: 46
  • BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • Entropy Has You
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg367698#msg367698
« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2011, 05:05:05 am »
Is God a perfect role model? Given the tales of murder, genocide, and other horrors attributed to God in the Bible, I would say no. If you ever met someone who acted in those ways, you would not praise him or want others to emulate him.
Its the classic good guy bad guy scenario. Batman, superman, and every other superhero are equally guilty by that respect. And cops. Dont forget about cops.
So you are saying that sometimes genocide is justified? When God purportedly killed every firstborn in Egypt, was every firstborn deserving of that execution? If you break God's laws, do your children deserve to be killed by animals, as God purportedly vowed to make happen? Did every human being who purportedly died in Noah's flood deserve to die? And you believe that this God is a good role model for police? Maybe you think that the KGB and the Gestapo were ideal police.
Except that they all did deserve to die. We all deserve to die myself included. Every single day we all earn God's judgement more and more. God has never been obligated to allow us to live. Until you read Gods word for what it is, and try to learn who God is, it will be easy to make the things that happen seem ridiculous, and make it seem like God would be a horrible role model. However, one you get to know God, you will understand him that much more. Ill go into the individual points if youd like, and if you will give references for them so I know exactly what you are talking about, however, I just want to make that point very clear as it covers the magority of the reasons people say God is a bad role model.
This sig was interrupted by Joe Biden

Offline Belthus

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 482
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • Belthus is a Spark waiting for a buff.
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg367824#msg367824
« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2011, 11:44:16 am »
Except that they all did deserve to die. We all deserve to die myself included. Every single day we all earn God's judgement more and more. God has never been obligated to allow us to live. Until you read Gods word for what it is, and try to learn who God is, it will be easy to make the things that happen seem ridiculous, and make it seem like God would be a horrible role model. However, one you get to know God, you will understand him that much more. Ill go into the individual points if youd like, and if you will give references for them so I know exactly what you are talking about, however, I just want to make that point very clear as it covers the magority of the reasons people say God is a bad role model.
Everyone deserves to die? OK, you are a monster. End of conversation.

Offline maverixkTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 508
  • Reputation Power: 7
  • maverixk is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • I have an 'x' instead of a 'c'. I know you jellin'
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg367862#msg367862
« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2011, 02:10:56 pm »
Is God a perfect role model? Given the tales of murder, genocide, and other horrors attributed to God in the Bible, I would say no. If you ever met someone who acted in those ways, you would not praise him or want others to emulate him.
So you are saying that sometimes genocide is justified? When God purportedly killed every firstborn in Egypt, was every firstborn deserving of that execution? If you break God's laws, do your children deserve to be killed by animals, as God purportedly vowed to make happen? Did every human being who purportedly died in Noah's flood deserve to die? And you believe that this God is a good role model for police? Maybe you think that the KGB and the Gestapo were ideal police.
Except that they all did deserve to die. We all deserve to die myself included. Every single day we all earn God's judgement more and more. God has never been obligated to allow us to live. Until you read Gods word for what it is, and try to learn who God is, it will be easy to make the things that happen seem ridiculous, and make it seem like God would be a horrible role model. However, one you get to know God, you will understand him that much more. Ill go into the individual points if youd like, and if you will give references for them so I know exactly what you are talking about, however, I just want to make that point very clear as it covers the magority of the reasons people say God is a bad role model.
Sure he's never been obligated to let us live. He's also never been obligated to give a crap about us. He could have left us to destroy ourselves after he saw that we failed.
So you give the typical Christian response to the genocide thing, huh? Look, I've been raised a Christian, a son of a pastor, so I had what I would call a relationship with God. But recently, I've stopped looking at only the good things that he's done like so many Christians do and started looking at some of the not so good things. I certainly do not believe to die simply because of a few mistakes. ESPECIALLY when it was God who made us the way we did, knowing we would make those mistakes(that is of course if he can see all time or whatever). He could have made us in a way where we would not be tempted by sin, but he didn't. So us sinning isn't entirely our fault, I would say its our programming that made us sin, ergo: God's fault.
On to the examples given, I don't know exactly how those people were doing wrong but surely they did not need to die for it. God has created billions of people, you'd think if he already knew their actions that he would be just a little more lenient, right?
It's like doing a science experiment like...let's say you've got a masters degree in physics and you're throwing a ball up in the air to see if it would fly into space. Sure it would if you threw it hard enough but no human can do that so naturally it comes back down. So you take a gun out, shoot the ball, then shoot the guy standing next to you. You know the outcome but yet you're furious and you could have avoided it all by doing a different experiment. Both the ball and the guy standing next to you would live. (hopefully :P)
"Are you ... comparing me to God? I mean, that's great, but just so you know, I've never made a tree." -House

Offline BluePriest

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3771
  • Reputation Power: 46
  • BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • Entropy Has You
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg367886#msg367886
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2011, 03:35:37 pm »
Sure he's never been obligated to let us live. He's also never been obligated to give a crap about us. He could have left us to destroy ourselves after he saw that we failed.
So you give the typical Christian response to the genocide thing, huh? Look, I've been raised a Christian, a son of a pastor, so I had what I would call a relationship with God. But recently, I've stopped looking at only the good things that he's done like so many Christians do and started looking at some of the not so good things. I certainly do not believe to die simply because of a few mistakes. ESPECIALLY when it was God who made us the way we did, knowing we would make those mistakes(that is of course if he can see all time or whatever). He could have made us in a way where we would not be tempted by sin, but he didn't. So us sinning isn't entirely our fault, I would say its our programming that made us sin, ergo: God's fault.
On to the examples given, I don't know exactly how those people were doing wrong but surely they did not need to die for it. God has created billions of people, you'd think if he already knew their actions that he would be just a little more lenient, right?
It's like doing a science experiment like...let's say you've got a masters degree in physics and you're throwing a ball up in the air to see if it would fly into space. Sure it would if you threw it hard enough but no human can do that so naturally it comes back down. So you take a gun out, shoot the ball, then shoot the guy standing next to you. You know the outcome but yet you're furious and you could have avoided it all by doing a different experiment. Both the ball and the guy standing next to you would live. (hopefully :P)
It is very important to look at all parts of the bible, not just part of it. You should always take caution to be sure you are ready for what you will read though. Not trying to sound like a jerk, but it seems like you were either not ready, or those who brought you up wanted you to think in a little box and once you broke free, instead of being on the path, the momentum of breaking free carried you right off the cliff. I am sure I have read the verses you are talking about some time, however, we obviously came to different conclusions.
There is a lot of debate over this. See the free will topic.
I cant give a rebuttle unless I know what is being talked about specifically. I do not like doing broad generalizations.
This sig was interrupted by Joe Biden

Offline maverixkTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 508
  • Reputation Power: 7
  • maverixk is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • I have an 'x' instead of a 'c'. I know you jellin'
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg367889#msg367889
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2011, 03:50:09 pm »
It is very important to look at all parts of the bible, not just part of it. You should always take caution to be sure you are ready for what you will read though. Not trying to sound like a jerk, but it seems like you were either not ready, or those who brought you up wanted you to think in a little box and once you broke free, instead of being on the path, the momentum of breaking free carried you right off the cliff. I am sure I have read the verses you are talking about some time, however, we obviously came to different conclusions.
There is a lot of debate over this. See the free will topic.
I cant give a rebuttle unless I know what is being talked about specifically. I do not like doing broad generalizations.
Well, your cliff analogy may be more accurate than I know, however I do not think so. Ok, I probably worded that incorrectly, I didn't stop looking at some things, I merely started looking at others as well as the ones that I had been looking at. Haha, I made a typo in the underlined part in my previous post :)
I know, I started that one. :P
On to specific examples: all the firstborn in Egypt, sure the pharoh didn't really do the nicest thing. But it does say that God hardened Pharoh's heart. It says those words every time Moses would come back to ask Pharoh to let his people go. I'm not sure what you gather from that, but what I see is that God told moses to go tell Pharoh to go let his people go, and then hardened Pharoh's heart so he would say no, and then punished all of Egypt for that...hmm..
Let's go to the Adam and Eve story(Whether or not it is a metaphor or an exact retelling, my points will stand...I hope :P)  The basic gist is that apparently God has punished the entire human race for all time until the rapture because of the actions of a few people. I don't know about you, but that doesn't really sound like a really good person/role model. Punishing others for what they didn't do...
"Are you ... comparing me to God? I mean, that's great, but just so you know, I've never made a tree." -House

Offline Nepycros

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2571
  • Reputation Power: 32
  • Nepycros is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Nepycros is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Nepycros is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Nepycros is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Nepycros is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.Nepycros is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • My creativity was OP, so I had to nerf it.
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg367993#msg367993
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2011, 08:00:25 pm »
I don't see God as a perfect being, if he's willing to punish innocent beings, using the excuse that they must suffer the punishment of their ancestor, the one who was guilty. Too many times, I've seen passages where the children are punished, or even killed, because the father caused the wrongdoing. I don't believe that just because we're not perfect, we deserve to die.
Perception is the source of misunderstanding.

Why, yes. I do have a Mindgate necklace. It's how I ninja everyone.

Offline maverixkTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 508
  • Reputation Power: 7
  • maverixk is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • I have an 'x' instead of a 'c'. I know you jellin'
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg368015#msg368015
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2011, 08:37:00 pm »
I don't see God as a perfect being, if he's willing to punish innocent beings, using the excuse that they must suffer the punishment of their ancestor, the one who was guilty. Too many times, I've seen passages where the children are punished, or even killed, because the father caused the wrongdoing. I don't believe that just because we're not perfect, we deserve to die.
Exactly my point. Thank you, Nepy. :)
"Are you ... comparing me to God? I mean, that's great, but just so you know, I've never made a tree." -House

Offline BluePriest

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3771
  • Reputation Power: 46
  • BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.BluePriest is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • Entropy Has You
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: God's Perfection https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=28661.msg368127#msg368127
« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2011, 02:04:39 am »
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/pharaoh.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/aiia-pharaoh.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-harden-Pharaoh-heart.html

Are all good readings on God hardening pharoahs heart. Note I am not ignoring your second part, I just like dealing with one subject at a time.

I don't see God as a perfect being, if he's willing to punish innocent beings, using the excuse that they must suffer the punishment of their ancestor, the one who was guilty. Too many times, I've seen passages where the children are punished, or even killed, because the father caused the wrongdoing. I don't believe that just because we're not perfect, we deserve to die.
These are the types of comments I ignore.
This sig was interrupted by Joe Biden

 

anything
blarg: