God's Perfection

[BluePriest]

Can perfection be imperfect?  Take this random and completely obscure example...

I want to be able to run at a top speed of 100 mph for any length of time without assistance from anything outside of my body and its needs (this includes the use of mechanical limbs ect).
I train every day and every moment until the muscles in my body have reached the physical limit of the human muscles and have reached the ideal weight to size ratio ect.
I run literally as fast as humanly possible.
As far as human limits goes, my running was perfect. It did not reach my initial goal of 100 mph however.
Was I perfect or imperfect?
I would say as far as a human goes, I was perfect. However, I look at other animals, and feel less perfect because they are able to reach a top speed higher than mine.

I suppose my question is less of can perfection be imperfect, and more of is there such a thing as TOO perfect?

[Nepycros]

So, basically, perfection is simply the top standard according to a fixed reference?

[OldTrees]

Can perfection be imperfect?  Take this random and completely obscure example...

I want to be able to run at a top speed of 100 mph for any length of time without assistance from anything outside of my body and its needs (this includes the use of mechanical limbs ect).
I train every day and every moment until the muscles in my body have reached the physical limit of the human muscles and have reached the ideal weight to size ratio ect.
I run literally as fast as humanly possible.
As far as human limits goes, my running was perfect. It did not reach my initial goal of 100 mph however.
Was I perfect or imperfect?
I would say as far as a human goes, I was perfect. However, I look at other animals, and feel less perfect because they are able to reach a top speed higher than mine.

I suppose my question is less of can perfection be imperfect, and more of is there such a thing as TOO perfect?

Under most definitions of perfection you would at most have fulfilled 1 necessary condition of perfection. Thus under most definitions of perfection you would not be perfect.
I do not know any definition of perfection that would fit either "imperfect perfection" or "TOO perfect". Please tell us you definition.

[johannhowitzer]

This is a casual discussion.  That's why I said the exception was implied.  If someone were to say, "deity X is omnipotent," he would not say, "deity X is omnipotent, with the following exceptions: he can't create both an immobile object and an immutable force to coexist, he can't be taller than himself, he can't change his own nature, etc. etc."  Those things are understood - they are logical impossibilities.  To demand all absurdities be allowed for in every definition would be to demand all discussions be needlessly verbose.

[BluePriest]

What Im getting at is even if we found a perfect human, it could still be an imperfect animal. So as far as human standards of whats possible goes, its perfect, but outside of that bubble, it is not.

So would you still consider it perfect, or imperfect because even though its at the top for its own kind, it would be lacking when compared to other kinds.

[OldTrees]

This is a casual discussion.  That's why I said the exception was implied.  If someone were to say, "deity X is omnipotent," he would not say, "deity X is omnipotent, with the following exceptions: he can't create both an immobile object and an immutable force to coexist, he can't be taller than himself, he can't change his own nature, etc. etc."  Those things are understood - they are logical impossibilities.  To demand all absurdities be allowed for in every definition would be to demand all discussions be needlessly verbose.

Even in a casual conversation a understanding of different terms that use the same word is useful. There is a great gap between "ability to do anything" and "ability to do anything possible" this difference was important to define in a recent thread discussing the problem of pain.

However I was not claiming a logical impossibility (like sentence type 1). I was asking if the poster's sentence (type 3) was stating a necessary and sufficient condition or a necessary but not sufficient condition. I was asking because there was a relevant difference. (Whether Perfect was synonymous of being God or whether it described a trait God happened to have.)

@ Bluepriest
It seems you are having multiple definition share the word perfect.
Def 1: Optimal performance/ability
Def 2: Comparison to an objective standard

[BluePriest]

@ Bluepriest
It seems you are having multiple definition share the word perfect.
Def 1: Optimal performance/ability
Def 2: Comparison to an objective standard

So which one are we discussing here?

[OldTrees]

@ Bluepriest
It seems you are having multiple definition share the word perfect.
Def 1: Optimal performance/ability
Def 2: Comparison to an objective standard

So which one are we discussing here?

I would assume all definitions that share the letters p-e-r-f-e-c-t.
The Author may correct me on this point.

[maverixk]

So which one are we discussing here?

I would assume all definitions that share the letters p-e-r-f-e-c-t.
The Author may correct me on this point.

Well, I assume you mean me by 'author'. In my original post I had a standard, however I now realize it was a standard that would differ, even if only by a little bit from person to person. however I think discussing each definition on it's irem may be more beneficial.

[johannhowitzer]

There is a great gap between "ability to do anything" and "ability to do anything possible" this difference was important to define in a recent thread discussing the problem of pain.

No, because the word "possible" in "ability to do anything possible" is redundant, and understood in "ability to do anything."  If someone can do it, it's possible by definition.  "Doing the impossible" is a human expression that doesn't actually mean something entirely impossible, but perhaps thought impossible before it was done.

[OldTrees]

There is a great gap between "ability to do anything" and "ability to do anything possible" this difference was important to define in a recent thread discussing the problem of pain.

No, because the word "possible" in "ability to do anything possible" is redundant, and understood in "ability to do anything."  If someone can do it, it's possible by definition.  "Doing the impossible" is a human expression that doesn't actually mean something entirely impossible, but perhaps thought impossible before it was done.

Yes, because some people use the word Omnipotence to mean "ability to do anything logically possible or logically impossible" rather than use it to mean "ability to do anything logically possible". Identifying which concept a person is using is important to avoid miscommunication.

Sidenote: I personally agree that "ability to do anything possible" is a more useful concept but my beliefs do not change what other people mean.

[Belthus]

Is God a perfect role model? Given the tales of murder, genocide, and other horrors attributed to God in the Bible, I would say no. If you ever met someone who acted in those ways, you would not praise him or want others to emulate him.