Free Will or Omniscience? (Sorry if i misspelled omniscience)

[Kael Hate]

@Essence

A Question,

If given a choice in a situation multiple times but all variables are always the same, would you ever make a different choice?
If so, what would make you take that different choice considering all variables were the same?

[Essence]

Quite frequently I make choices that are completely arbitrary.  For example, I just randomly chose CCYB for a few games of FG farming.  I could have chosen GotP Time, Shakar's Revenge, or my own spin on Nymphomania -- they all have about the same win percentage, I have the resources to play any of them equally, etc. 

The next time, with every variable completely identical, I might well choose to play a different deck.  Absolutely.

[maverixk]

But see, in your example, the reason you chose the deck you did is because of the precise set of events that led up to you choosing that specific deck. Yes, you could have chosen differently, I'm not disputing that, but you wouldn't have.

[Essence]

How do you know that?

[maverixk]

Because,in the choices we make, even arbitrary ones, we make a choice based on, whether we know it or not at the moment, all events leading up to that choice. Some may call it the mood we were in during the decision making.

[Kael Hate]

Quite frequently I make choices that are completely arbitrary.  For example, I just randomly chose CCYB for a few games of FG farming.  I could have chosen GotP Time, Shakar's Revenge, or my own spin on Nymphomania -- they all have about the same win percentage, I have the resources to play any of them equally, etc. 

The next time, with every variable completely identical, I might well choose to play a different deck.  Absolutely.

How did you arbitrarily come to a result?

[Essence]

Because,in the choices we make, even arbitrary ones, we make a choice based on, whether we know it or not at the moment, all events leading up to that choice. Some may call it the mood we were in during the decision making.

How do you know that?

How did you arbitrarily come to a result?

I have no idea.  That's what 'arbitrary' means.

[Kael Hate]

How did you arbitrarily come to a result?

I have no idea.  That's what 'arbitrary' means.

No, thats not what 'arbitrary' means.
Look here http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arbitrary

ar·bi·trar·y   /ˈɑrbɪˌtrɛri/  Show Spelled
[ahr-bi-trer-ee]  Show IPA
adjective, noun, plural -trar·ies. 
–adjective
1. subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision.
2. decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.
3. having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical: an arbitrary government.



I assume you did not have a Judge or secondary party choose the deck for you.
So if you did make an arbitrary descision then it was based on your own discretion.
Because it was made at your discretiion you had to have calculated a result from the variables given.
If you chose the first deck in your list or even rolled a dice the variables there are the same and the same result would have been attained.

If you ment to say that you had no idea how you came to the conclusion. The situation exists that you never made a choice but the choice was made for you based on the metaprograming. With the variables all the same the same result is always attained.

[Essence]

You forgot a definition:

ar·bi·trar·y/ˈärbiˌtrerē/Adjective
1. Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define%3A+arbitrary)


Random choice, personal whim: those things are not provably subject to 'metaprogramming', determinism, or any other outside force.  That's the entire point of the debate.  You can give your opinion on the matter, but you cannot offer proof that your opinion is accurate.  Like God, free will is outside of the measuring capacity of Science as we know it today.

[Neopergoss]

I'm going to have to agree with Kael here. I see no reason to believe that we exert truly independent control over our actions. I think something that everyone's missing, though, is that this is really only a cause for cynicism if you choose to view it that way. We still have control, in the sense that we can make choices. It may be that our choices are predetermined, but that doesn't mean that we don't still make them freely or that we can't be held responsible for them.

[Kael Hate]

You forgot a definition:

ar·bi·trar·y/ˈärbiˌtrerē/Adjective
1. Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define%3A+arbitrary)


Random choice, personal whim: those things are not provably subject to 'metaprogramming', determinism, or any other outside force.  That's the entire point of the debate.  You can give your opinion on the matter, but you cannot offer proof that your opinion is accurate.  Like God, free will is outside of the measuring capacity of Science as we know it today.

Random choice requires a randomisation method which in itself is always controlled by the environment. Any time you roll a dice the result is determine by the phyisical effects on its movement. The variables the same the result is the same.
As for Personal Whim, it was based on your desire, still a calculative result. What desire changes when all the variables creating that desire stay the same?

whim   /ʰwɪm, wɪm/  Show Spelled
[hwim, wim]  Show IPA
–noun
1. an odd or capricious notion or desire; a sudden or freakish fancy: a sudden whim to take a midnight walk.
2. capricious humor: to be swayed by whim.

whim/(h)wim/Noun
1. A sudden desire or change of mind, esp. one that is unusual or unexplained.
2. A windlass for raising ore or water from a mine.  More » (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=whim)

[Essence]

What desire changes when all the variables creating that desire stay the same?

An odd or capricious one.  A sudden or freakish one.  An unusual or unexplained one.  A random one.

You are conflating physical randomness such as a rolled die with a form of randomness we cannot measure.  Because we cannot measure it, we have no way of knowing with any accuracy whether or not the outcome of that randomness is based completely on inputs.  More to the point, if the inputs are themselves not measurable, the outcome will always be nondeterminable and thus nondeterministic.

Hell, if you want to get right down to it, there are physical randomnesses that are nonmeasurable and thus nondeterministic, such as the location of electrons or the moment when a radioactive isotope will lose mass.  Base a random number off of that, and you have randomness that is not the result of known or knowable inputs.  Thus, Shrodinger's Cat.  Free will is another example of the exact same phenomenon.

The deck that I choose to play next is in a state of quantum flux until the moment it's chosen, because nor you neither I or anyone else knows what inputs go into my decision to play CCYB over Veen's Vicious Viotech.  That quantum flux is the very definition of free will.