Evolution and Intelligent Design

[airframe]

@Puppychow
Well, since Im a Christian, I believe that common designer to be God.  Ive come to this conclusion because of personal convictions.

You probabaly ment "@airframe".

I honestly hanve no idea what you mean by that. You simply decided that everything has been created by a god?

[Artois]

An interesting article with regard to Intelligent Design (that is non-conclusive): http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070222155420.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070222155420.htm)

[Chemist]

1. yes, i know, but so what?

2. again, so what?

3. yes, i know, but the religeon must bend ALOT! and also it is implied that evolution is false.

It seems the only person here that says that religion implies that evolution is false is you.

If you think the two don't clash then why is the thread titled "Evolution and Intelligent Design"?

[TheOwner]

I assume your going with the Christian story line correct?  Evolution coexists with Genesis.

1.  Genesis is very metaphorical
2.  One God day doesn't have to equal one human day (human day gets longer and longer all the time)
3.  Almost any religion that doesn't specifically say evolution does not exist can be interpreted to fit with evolution

Could you please provide some evidence that Genesis is meant to be taken metaphorically rather than literally? So many Christians think it is figurative, but none have any evidence.

I personally take it very metaphorically.  Many of my Christian friends take it metaphorically.  Can you prove its literal?  I know for a fact Revelations is written metaphorically, since they are very similar I tend to believe Genesis and Revelations are both written metaphorically.

Definition: Revelations: metaphorical; written without literal meaning

[BluePriest]

1. yes, i know, but so what?

2. again, so what?

3. yes, i know, but the religeon must bend ALOT! and also it is implied that evolution is false.

It seems the only person here that says that religion implies that evolution is false is you.

If you think the two don't clash then why is the thread titled "Evolution and Intelligent Design"?

My view is that I dont believe in evolution, however, at the same time, I never said they clash. Hence Its evolution AND intelligent design, not or/vs.

[TheOwner]

Blue Priest why do you not believe in evolution?  There IS scientific evidence that proves it.  It can be seen in diseases easily.

[BluePriest]

Blue Priest why do you not believe in evolution?  There IS scientific evidence that proves it.  It can be seen in diseases easily.

I dont see anything in any of the evidence for evolution that cant be explained through intelligent design. As Ive stated before, I dont think evolution disproves God if it is true, so its not a matter of me not believing it because I think its a way to destroy christianity.  I cant really explain why I dont believe its true, which is sorta strange cause I can normally explain things like that better, all I can really do, is make sure you dont misunderstand why I dont think its true.

[TheOwner]

I don't want to be mean but the basic argument just gave me is an irrational argument that irks me so much... I do the same thing occasionally then I realize... oh yeah what I said was stupid.  I don't disrespect your beliefs in God but I have trouble with Christianity and religions in general when they ban proven science.

If you missed my earlier explanation of evolution:  There are genetic mutations in the genes of creatures, diseases, and plants.  Many will die because of these mutations but some will live and become stronger.  When these mutations because plants to become stronger.  This is very evident in viruses some of the fastest evolving organisms.  Look to Africa where pesticides wiped out diseases destroying crops.  Oh no look the same disease, but stronger, is back and pesticides no longer work.  That disease has just evolved.

Ratcharmer your a biologist did I get anything wrong?

[ratcharmer]

I don't want to be mean but the basic argument just gave me is an irrational argument that irks me so much... I do the same thing occasionally then I realize... oh yeah what I said was stupid.  I don't disrespect your beliefs in God but I have trouble with Christianity and religions in general when they ban proven science.

If you missed my earlier explanation of evolution:  There are genetic mutations in the genes of creatures, diseases, and plants.  Many will die because of these mutations but some will live and become stronger.  When these mutations because plants to become stronger.  This is very evident in viruses some of the fastest evolving organisms.  Look to Africa where pesticides wiped out diseases destroying crops.  Oh no look the same disease, but stronger, is back and pesticides no longer work.  That disease has just evolved.

Ratcharmer your a biologist did I get anything wrong?

Your explanation of evolution is pretty good. But I should note that BluePriest did specify he didn't see any conflict between Christianity and evolution, so his reasons for doubting evolution were not religious.

Let's try to use elements as an analogy for evolution:

You are playing against an opponent who has infinite health (he's a hacker!!) you have three malignant cells in play and one SUPER malignant cell that has stats of 1/3 instead of 1/1 (it's an ultra-rare card, bet you didn't even know it existed did you?). Your opponent plays a thorn carapace.

Fast forward several turns, and your field will be filled almost entirely with super malignant cells. Why? because after being poisoned they can keep reproducing for several turns, whereas a normal malignant cell can only last one turn after being poisoned.

Now let's say after that you bolt one of you own malignant cells so you can play your secret weapon: the SUPER DUPER malignant cell, who is 1/3 with momentum.

Fast forward a few turns,and now your field is full of super duper cells, because they never get poisoned at all.

This is all that the theory of evolution is saying. It's mostly common sense really, it just tends to get blurry because there's a lot of double talk surrounding it and often times people try to ascribe consequences to it that it doesn't really have.

[TheOwner]

Thank you.  I'm sorry I misunderstood BluePriest.  I understand having a hunch and following it, but you have no where to go with your hunch against evolution if you had said because God says so I would be more comfortable than no reason besides it just doesn't seem right.

[BluePriest]

I don't want to be mean but the basic argument just gave me is an irrational argument that irks me so much... I do the same thing occasionally then I realize... oh yeah what I said was stupid.  I don't disrespect your beliefs in God but I have trouble with Christianity and religions in general when they ban proven science.

If you missed my earlier explanation of evolution:  There are genetic mutations in the genes of creatures, diseases, and plants.  Many will die because of these mutations but some will live and become stronger.  When these mutations because plants to become stronger.  This is very evident in viruses some of the fastest evolving organisms.  Look to Africa where pesticides wiped out diseases destroying crops.  Oh no look the same disease, but stronger, is back and pesticides no longer work.  That disease has just evolved.

Ratcharmer your a biologist did I get anything wrong?

I once again say, there is nothing there that proves evolution that could exist in ID without evolution being true. It has nothing to do with my understanding of evolution, Ive read tons of books and articles explaining it, by different scientists.

Let me break down your post 1 by 1 on things I never said.
1)Christianity and religions in general when they ban proven science.
I never said that. People are free to believe what they want, whether it is evolution or not.
2)ban proven science.
You can look at the world through sciences eyes, or through Gods eyes. I can look at all the evidence you have for evolution, and say its all God, and make the same deductions you make through science. If you deny the existance of God, then there is nothing wrong with that part of your statement, but I dont, and i see things in a different light than you. Heres the thing. We cant prove either of us is right.
3)Oh no look the same disease, but stronger
The thing is, I see nothing wrong with your 2nd paragraph, I dont deny any of these things from happening.
Yes, I believe in micro evolution very very strongly. I just dont see the extrapolation of it, macro evolution, as being as strongly refined. This is one difference between me and many people that push evolution as being true. I see a big difference between change within a species, and change surpassing species.

[TheOwner]

1) I never said that YOU said it I was making a general statement

2) Yes neither one of us can prove either one wrong.  I never said I don't believe in God I am simply undecided.  I've always looked to the bible for morale advice though.  That has always been my view of God.  He created the earth with all these rules and complications like evolution and microbiology, but we are just now really learning about them.

3) I do understand what your saying.  I picture evolution in humans as the following...

Three caveman become mutated, caveman one becomes sick and dies, caveman two is not effected (to his knowledge) caveman three became a little bit stronger and his genes were passed on to his three cave man children who were mutated....

This isn't perfect but it's a good way to explain it in the general sense.