Does God Exist?

[tyranim]

my belief is that no one can know anything. we can only believe. people can lie, so we cant absolutely know that they are telling the truth or lying. people forget things, so if mind reading is possible, it isnt very useful. people have delusions, your senses can decieve you, so you cant absolutely know if what you remeber is true. back to the mind reading thing and the delusions thing, what you read in someones mind could be a delusion. like i said before, i believe no one can KNOW anything, we can only believe. for all we know, we could be computer programs or mere thoughts.

[Essence]

That's prediction based on knowledge, not knowledge.

Argument by redefinition.   Knowledge is defined as "expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject" (OED).  Therefore, if I can accurately predict (a skill) an occurrence because of my practical understanding of my child (an experience) -- that's definitionally "knowledge".

An omniscient entity has practical understanding of and experience in literally every potential field of endeavor, from quantum mechanics to "where Evil King Graknar keeps his dungeon keys".  (sorry, inside joke.)  There is no Heisenberg Principle for an omniscient entity.  Therefore, it's folly to assume that an omniscient entity can't apply that practical understanding and experience to predict the future with perfect accuracy.  The fact that Big Poppa in the Sky knows me well enough to know how I'll react to any given situation has no bearing on my ability to make the decisions myself.

There are a lot of very valid arguments against omniscience, but free will just isn't among them.   

 

[Belthus]

How is it that an omniscient being can predict what choices you make? That could only be true if choices are part of the causal chain, just like everything else. If you think of billiard balls bouncing around, hitting each other and the table sides in predictable ways, that is an analogy for cause and effect. If a choice is just another predictable billiard ball, then that is incompatible with free will.

[ElementalGod]

It is highly unlikely that there is any god or gods for that matter, in the same way that fairies, goblins and unicorns probably do not exist. However we can never prove it for sure, but believing in any of that without evidence is suspicious.

[tyranim]

believing that one ABSOLUTELY doesnt exist is a little suspicious too

[PuppyChow]

How is it that an omniscient being can predict what choices you make? That could only be true if choices are part of the causal chain, just like everything else. If you think of billiard balls bouncing around, hitting each other and the table sides in predictable ways, that is an analogy for cause and effect. If a choice is just another predictable billiard ball, then that is incompatible with free will.

I'm not saying I believe in predestination, in fact I don't, but here's the theory behind it:

God has decided before you were born whether or not you will go to heaven or hell. Based on where you will go, you make decisions, unconsciously, to get you there. For instance, if you will go to heaven, your actions will end up displaying that through good works and such. If you are predestined to go to hell, your decisions will end up placing you there. Basically, an illusion of free will, but God decides beforehand and therefore you can't change your fate. Sure, maybe you start off murdering somebody, but then start doing good and end up going to heaven, but all that was predetermined. God had predestined you to go to heaven, so even if you started off "evil," eventually you would have done what was required to go to heaven.

In effect, you get the illusion of free will, but there really isn't any.

At least, I think that's how it works. I don't believe in it, so I'm no expert and not completely sure.

[ElementalGod]

believing that one ABSOLUTELY doesnt exist is a little suspicious too

That's an extremely popular strawman of atheism, but that is sadly not wat it is (sorry to let you down). Hint: look at the latin root of the word....

[Daxx]

That's prediction based on knowledge, not knowledge.

Argument by redefinition.   Knowledge is defined as "expertise, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject" (OED).  Therefore, if I can accurately predict (a skill) an occurrence because of my practical understanding of my child (an experience) -- that's definitionally "knowledge".

Actually, he's absolutely correct. The ability to predict something isn't the sort of knowledge that is implied when we talk about omniscience - that is actually knowing the outcome, not merely being able to predict it. You don't know in the absolute sense (required within the definition of omniscience) what will happen even if you are able to predict what will happen. Your analogy was a poor one to begin with as they are two very different concepts.

[tyranim]

believing that one ABSOLUTELY doesnt exist is a little suspicious too

That's an extremely popular strawman of atheism, but that is sadly not wat it is (sorry to let you down). Hint: look at the latin root of the word....

hold on. care to explain? i have no idea what that post said... im only 17

[Daxx]

believing that one ABSOLUTELY doesnt exist is a little suspicious too

That's an extremely popular strawman of atheism, but that is sadly not wat it is (sorry to let you down). Hint: look at the latin root of the word....

hold on. care to explain? i have no idea what that post said... im only 17

Atheism: from the Greek a- or an- (meaning "not") and theos (God).

Atheism comes in two forms. Strong Atheism makes the positive claim that there is definitely no God. Weak atheism (the more popular and general version) is simply non-theism, which says that since no-one has yet proved God exists, it is reasonable to assume that he probably doesn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism)

[tyranim]

oh. im not realy saying that im leaning towards him/her/them not existing, i said i dont know. which means the following

there is a god - - - - - me - - - - - there is no god

im half way. i dont know if there is a word for that tho...

[Scaredgirl]

oh. im not realy saying that im leaning towards him/her/them not existing, i said i dont know. which means the following

there is a god - - - - - me - - - - - there is no god

im half way. i dont know if there is a word for that tho...

"Confused"?