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Offline SavageTopic starter

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Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1087126#msg1087126
« on: July 15, 2013, 03:52:24 pm »
What is the concept of Sin and how does it apply to 'Hell' and what is Hell really?

Donald A Carson PhD. puts it this way: he describes Hell more like separation from God rather than a place where you go and burn. In other words, this is a definition. My question is, have Christian's view or even some of the Bible's views of Hell been influenced by ideas outside of what God intended?

Sin: I don't believe that stealing is wrong if the area you live is okay with it inside its area, but I do believe it becomes wrong if you claim to love God. (see the difference I am making?)

Is it better to explain sin as a concept rather than action (oh you hit that guy, let's tally another sin 'type of idea')

Offline Plastica

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1090264#msg1090264
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2013, 09:01:12 pm »
Is it better to explain sin as a concept rather than action (oh you hit that guy, let's tally another sin 'type of idea')
Sin, as a noun, is the idea of a sin or immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. Sin, as a verb, is the action itself. So, really, you can't explain sin without acknowledging the fact that it is an action that would take place, committed by someone. The "concept" you're talking about explaining is evil. Sin is really not a concept at all. The noun, sin, is a word that refers to the verb, sin. The verb, sin, is a word that, you could say, refers to evil in the sense of an action. The word, evil, is a concept that, on it's own, has nothing to do with action. So, in order for somebody to understand what sin is, they would first have to understand what the concept of evil is (according to their religion/beliefs). Then, to explain sin, you must refer to it as an action inevitably, because that's what sin is.

So the answer to that question is: Both are completely necessary.

Offline Doomster01

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1090530#msg1090530
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 10:07:16 am »
If sin is a concept of morality, then surely there is a person who, at least in his own mind, never sins? Does this mean that "evil" people aren't sinners?

Offline Plastica

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1090804#msg1090804
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2013, 03:21:19 am »
If sin is a concept of morality, then surely there is a person who, at least in his own mind, never sins? Does this mean that "evil" people aren't sinners?
It doesn't matter what you believe when it comes to relativity. In his own mind, this evil man may never "sin" (If he's really that disconnected from reality); however, when you expand further and take the opinion's of people who exist outside of his mind into account, you'll find that he is a sinful man. It all depends on who you ask, so why bother defining people?

Offline Jyiber

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1090813#msg1090813
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 06:12:32 am »
I always believed that religion is like a set of guidelines for people who need, well, guidance. You cannot Sin if you've never believed in God because you can't break guidelines that don't exist for you. Sin is simply breaking the morale standards set by your faith. Every religion asks you to stay on the track of "good" so you may receive the rewards/benefits during your life and/or after your death.

So is a person who doesn't believe a bad person because they don't have an ulterior motive through life like those driven by faith? Good question. Every person sets their own morale standards of good and evil, they're only influenced by religion for some.

As for what Hell is... It's original image was heavily influenced by the limits of the imaginations of the ancient writers of the Bible. Lakes of fire and other mentioned imagery were the scariest things they could come up with at the time... My opinion is that each person has their own special hell that created by the fears out of the bottom of their soul. Only you know what terror is unbearable for you.

That is... if I believed in such things.  :D
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Offline SavageTopic starter

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1092032#msg1092032
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2013, 02:19:25 am »
I always believed that religion is like a set of guidelines for people who need, well, guidance. You cannot Sin if you've never believed in God because you can't break guidelines that don't exist for you. Sin is simply breaking the morale standards set by your faith. Every religion asks you to stay on the track of "good" so you may receive the rewards/benefits during your life and/or after your death.

So is a person who doesn't believe a bad person because they don't have an ulterior motive through life like those driven by faith? Good question. Every person sets their own morale standards of good and evil, they're only influenced by religion for some.

As for what Hell is... It's original image was heavily influenced by the limits of the imaginations of the ancient writers of the Bible. Lakes of fire and other mentioned imagery were the scariest things they could come up with at the time... My opinion is that each person has their own special hell that created by the fears out of the bottom of their soul. Only you know what terror is unbearable for you.

That is... if I believed in such things.  :D

That is what I am getting at. You cannot break guidelines that are not in context to you. The ten commandments were for people who claimed to be Israelites/ followers of God. We cannot hold other peoples accountable for breaking those commandments therefore unless they decided before hand to abide by them
 
As for Hell, Donald explained Hell as if everyone did as they pleased. Almost like the movie 'Purge.' Literally Hell on earth, but he kept it if people did as they pleased. In my view, that explains Hell very differently from 'fire' or 'lakes of fire' or 'eternal damnation where you suffer unbearable pain.' That is unless of course the other people do this to you.


Offline Keolino

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1092079#msg1092079
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2013, 10:54:51 am »
"I believe in hell, cause sometimes I think I live in it."

"Death is salvation, once earth becomes hell. Death is heaven because it´s nothing and "being nothing" is better than everything once everything becomes hell."

"If somebody sees hell as something that´s after your death, i will ask him if he is stupid or blind."

"You can´t understand hell until you suffered enough to wish for your own death. And even than you may not be able to understand me..."
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Offline SavageTopic starter

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1092284#msg1092284
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 02:29:52 am »
sort of agreed. Hell does have an explicit definition aside from its other loaded meanings. One scholar put it as 'life with absolutely no good.'

Offline nerd1

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1093961#msg1093961
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 11:49:33 pm »
I believe hell would be the absence of God, plus a total lack of meaning. If you had nothing to live for, but couldn't die, that would be pretty hellish, no?
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Offline SavageTopic starter

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1094741#msg1094741
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 08:48:12 pm »
But does absence from God necessarily mean fire and 'nashing of teeth?' I mean, what does it mean when if Judgement say comes you tell God you don't love him or don't believe in him. Is he really going to cast you into some fire...or what?

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1098642#msg1098642
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2013, 09:10:06 pm »
To answer the topic simply; Stupidity is the cardinal sin. And hell is anywhere with a lot of religious people.
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Offline Keolino

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Re: Concept of Sin? Hell? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50399.msg1098684#msg1098684
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2013, 05:59:50 am »
To answer the topic simply; Stupidity is the cardinal sin. And hell is anywhere with a lot of religious people.

You mistake something... hell is anywhere with a lot of stupid people, who don't miss a chance to speak ill about a group which they don't believe in. Like atheists attacking religions, for example. (As well as religous people hating atheists or other religious groups)

To be correct, it isn't a sin if people don't believe in the same things that you do.

By the way, I am not religious myself.
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