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Evil Hamster

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11747#msg11747
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

I've always labeled Iron Maiden as a Christian Rock band.
Iron Maiden is one of my favorite bands! I liked that their songs were more of a story written into a musical piece.

Atheists don't like religious ideas forced on them and people from other religions most definitely don't listen to Christian music.
In general atheists are one of the most intolerant groups I know- and that goes further than just music. Just mention God in front of one and they go off about trying to force "God" on them. People can't have a Christian symbol on their desk at work because it might "offend" somebody. How is that possible in a country built on religious freedom?

Offline jmizzle7

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11748#msg11748
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

That's a very interesting article. I actually don't like a lot of Christian television, as almost all of it is aimed at believers, and a very small cross-section at that. As for the death of Christian music, that will never happen. Maybe the specific production/marketing aspect of the "CCM" brand name is slowing, but there are a lot of new Christian artists coming out with new music all the time.

That article actually hits on my main point, that Christian musicians put out great music and don't get the same opportunities that non-Christians do. This isn't the artist's fault.

Offline jmizzle7

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11749#msg11749
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

The marketing is for a specific audience, yes. The music itself isn't part of a bubble, but is instead a reaching out to the secular community.

Offline jmizzle7

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11750#msg11750
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

My point above about self-segregation didn't get a reply. It's not a conspiracy against Christian music. What happened was that evangelical/fundamentalist Christians have partially withdrawn from the mainstream culture. They think that mainstream music is too sexual, too violent, not dedicated to Jesus, etc., so they created their own music (and other entertainment) to meet their own special requirements. They also have their own schools, their own summer camps, and so on. In a way, it's an admirable do-it-yourself spirit. On the other hand, it can be a bubble, in which some people are getting a very distorted view of those outside of the evangelical/fundamentalist Christian subculture.
Your assumptions about Christian music couldn't be more incorrect. Just because you see Christians as living in a bubble doesn't mean that everything about life as a Christian is part of that bubble. I agree that there is a kind of social/cultural bubble in some Christian circles, and there are certain benefits and negatives that go along with that. However, saying that Christians invented some kind of new kind of music just to protect themselves of the "evils" of secular music is just plain incorrect and uninformed.

The contemporary syncretic Christian musical genre's origins can be dated all the way back to the inclusion of music in the early Roman Catholic Church. Composers like Palestrina, Gabrieli, and others wrote a ton of music for church mass and special services. The composing techniques they tended to use were the styles accepted by the church, but many composers tried to gently push the envelope and toy with harmonies, forms, and ornamentations that were popular among secular styles of the day. The songs used in the early Protestant church were hymns, many of which were written by J.S. Bach with text by John Wesley. This style was descendent from the earlier progressive styles of the Catholic church.

Fast forward to the 20th century, where the Protestant church and hymns are considered to be traditional. In the '60s and '70s, the hippie movement was huge and had its own culture and music. The large-scale revival in California known as the "Jesus movement" reached a great number of these hippies who were, for all practical purposes, shunned by established society because of their "radical" lifestyle and disestablishment nature. Calvary Chapel is one of the churches that was created as an outreach to hippies. At first, Pastor Chuck Smith's church sang hymns (and still does, to this day), but members of his church and other churches wrote songs that sounded more like the secular music they were accustomed to. A fine example of this is the music of Malcolm & Alwyn (
), a popular Christian band from England in the 1970s whose rock style was heavily influenced by the Beatles. Their music was popular enough that they recorded a live album at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa (the original Calvary Chapel church) in 1981. Phil Wickham gives tribute to M&A on Youtube performing a cover of their song, "Fool's Wisdom (
)".

Overall, the argument for Christian music being in an exclusionary bubble is untrue, especially contemporary Christian music which stemmed directly from popular rock styles of the 1970s. The people who believe that there needs to be a firm line defining Christian music and non-Christian music are generally those that don't fully understand music's role in the context of the history of the Christian church.

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11751#msg11751
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

Lol, does Christian music really need 2 threads? It's pretty funny how religious people are so sensitive :)
I only split it because it was requested. It only takes about a minute. Since it was pretty much two different discussions in one thread and it was requested to split, I did it.

PuppyChow

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11752#msg11752
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

And I'm sure in those parts of the world mullets are pretty dang cool.
Popular = Cool.

PuppyChow

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11753#msg11753
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

I know tons of people that don't go "ew" when you say you listen to Christian music. It's just a different taste in music, and most people respect that. When I say I hate rap, people that like it don't start hating you. They shrug and say "ok".

It's not like we that like Christian music despise all other forms for music. I like other rock groups that aren't Christian too, like Led Zeppelin, Yellowcard, 3 Doors Down, Rise Against, etc etc.

And (at least in the US), there are Christian albums that hit the Top 10 album list on iTunes regularly. Another band that recently got popular mainstream, Shinedown (great band, btw), has songs said to be Christain.

You all seem to be splitting the listeners into two camps (those that like Christain music and those that don't) and claiming Christian rock/pop isn't popular. Neither is true.

PuppyChow

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11754#msg11754
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

To quote the lead singer of Anberlin (taken from Wikipedia :D):

"I think we're categorized like that a lot because we're on Tooth & Nail Records, which, years ago, was known as a Christian label and never lost that reputation. I don't care who listens to our records. If it helps people in whatever circumstances they're in, that's amazing, but I definitely don't classify us as a Christian band."[32] Elsewhere, Christian has remarked, "[My faith] affects every single aspect of my life, but I'm not a preacher, I'm an entertainer."

And even if he tries to deny it, it IS a Christian band (they have songs about the apocalypse, the saint of lost causes, etc etc).

Just shows that Christian bands, at least some of them, don't just market specifically to Christians.

PuppyChow

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11755#msg11755
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

I know tons of people that don't go "ew" when you say you listen to Christian music. It's just a different taste in music, and most people respect that. When I say I hate rap, people that like it don't start hating you. They shrug and say "ok".

It's not like we that like Christian music despise all other forms for music. I like other rock groups that aren't Christian too, like Led Zeppelin, Yellowcard, 3 Doors Down, Rise Against, etc etc.

And (at least in the US), there are Christian albums that hit the Top 10 album list on iTunes regularly. Another band that recently got popular mainstream, Shinedown (great band, btw), has songs said to be Christain.

You all seem to be splitting the listeners into two camps (those that like Christain music and those that don't) and claiming Christian rock/pop isn't popular. Neither is true.
My buddy's little brother just got the crap kicked out of him for admitting to be a Christian in his highschool.  Happened a few months ago so I guess I shouldn't say "just".  But, regardless it happened.  Christianity is getting pretty unpopular around the world with Atheism becoming so popular.
Then that high school sucks :|. Most people I know are Christians. There are about a total of 4-5 athiests in my grade. There are some "Christians" that only go to church/mass for Christmas Eve and Easter, and don't really follow the Christian doctrine, but still... They aren't atheist.

I dunno. Maybe it's focused in communities (i.e. where I live, Christianity is popular, but where you live, maybe not so much...)

PuppyChow

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11756#msg11756
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

You all seem to be splitting the listeners into two camps (those that like Christain music and those that don't) and claiming Christian rock/pop isn't popular. Neither is true.
Well, there are specific camps imo because we are not talking about only music here, and I don't think any atheists listen to Christian music. I see 3 major "camps" here:

1. Christians who listen to Christian music
2. Christians who don't listen to Christian music
3. Non-Christians who don't listen to Christian music

While Christian music might be popular among Christians, it most definitely is not popular among the general public, because it's considered to be "uncool" and "lame". These artists would do much better if they made the same kind of music but didn't label themselves as "Christian musicians".
Maybe your groupings are right. Maybe they aren't. I'm not going to get into a debate about that.

However, the part about Christian music being "uncool" and "lame"...
Relient K's "Five Score and Seven Years Ago" peaked 6 on the US album charts.
RED's "Innocence & Instinct" peaked 15 on the US album charts.
*RED also cowrote about half of the songs on Breaking Benjamin's new album, "Dear Agony".
Anberlin's "New Surrender" peaked 13 on the US album charts.
Switchfoot had albums peaking at 3, 13, 16, and 18 on the US Billboard 200.

Now consider that these groups are all considered rock, in an industry today mainly focused on rap and the like. They all peaked VERY high for rock albums.

PuppyChow

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11757#msg11757
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

Popular = Cool.
That it actually incorrect as it's usually the complete opposite.

When "cool" things become too popular, they become "uncool". Just like an underground band that makes it big and suddenly everyone (including your parents) is listening to them.

You can easily see this development with hip hop. It has become way too mainstream and many people are already looking for alternatives.

"Rebel" music has always been the big thing among young people (who say what's cool and what's not). Current generation has hip hop. Previous generation had Rock'n Roll. There's absolutely nothing "rebel" in Christian music so it will never get that "cool" status.
You seem to be claiming that there is "cool" and "lame" with no middle ground. False. Christian music is somewhere in the middle; neither cool nor lame. The fact that it is semi popular proves that.

Previous generation had Rock'n Roll, and Rock was cool with them. Which made it popular.
This generation has rap, and rap is popular because it's cool.

So I guess my statement of Popular = Cool was false. I should have said "Something being cool makes it popular".

PuppyChow

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Christian music vs. Mainstream media https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1230.msg11758#msg11758
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:30 pm »

Previous generation had Rock'n Roll, and Rock was cool with them. Which made it popular.
This generation has rap, and rap is popular because it's cool.

My point is that both Rock and Hip Hop are "cool" because of the rebel or gansta mentality involved in them. They were both about breaking the rules and not doing what the society tells you to.

Christian music on the other hand is the total opposite with its "Listen to your parent or you're going to Hell" type of message. It won't win any fans among teenagers, unless they were raised on a very religious surroundings.

Highly religious people might find Christian music to be cool but let me assure you that others don't.
Never said it was. I'm just saying it isn't "lame". People don't shun you if you say you listen to Christian music.

 

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