Belief in Religion

[Belthus]

I find issues with many of the organized religions.  Quite frankly some of their teching are either theologically broken, or they added in rules and regulations that are complete useless and often destructive.  I am however a minister in a 'nondenominational' church so don't take this as I'm opposed to 'religion' completely.  We try to stick close to the bible and cut away the extra fluff.

I think that the opposite is true. Those who can see the Bible as stories in the context of the times may be able to recognize its horrors, atrocities, genocide as bad and then salvage the rest. Those who see the Bible as an unchanging moral code typically do all they can to minimize the truly evil things attributed to God and his champions, or even worse, to believe that evil is really good.

[maverixk]

I find issues with many of the organized religions.  Quite frankly some of their teching are either theologically broken, or they added in rules and regulations that are complete useless and often destructive.  I am however a minister in a 'nondenominational' church so don't take this as I'm opposed to 'religion' completely.  We try to stick close to the bible and cut away the extra fluff.

I think that the opposite is true. Those who can see the Bible as stories in the context of the times may be able to recognize its horrors, atrocities, genocide as bad and then salvage the rest. Those who see the Bible as an unchanging moral code typically do all they can to minimize the truly evil things attributed to God and his champions, or even worse, to believe that evil is really good.

I have no idea what you're referring to here.

[Scaredgirl]

I find issues with many of the organized religions.  Quite frankly some of their teching are either theologically broken, or they added in rules and regulations that are complete useless and often destructive.  I am however a minister in a 'nondenominational' church so don't take this as I'm opposed to 'religion' completely.  We try to stick close to the bible and cut away the extra fluff.

I think that the opposite is true. Those who can see the Bible as stories in the context of the times may be able to recognize its horrors, atrocities, genocide as bad and then salvage the rest. Those who see the Bible as an unchanging moral code typically do all they can to minimize the truly evil things attributed to God and his champions, or even worse, to believe that evil is really good.

I have no idea what you're referring to here.

I'm guessing Old Testament.

[Wimbledofy]

How can we have a standard of right and wrong if we all evolved. All it would be is other opinions if it was like that. If evolution is true and The bible isn't, what makes it wrong to kill someone because you want to?

[PuppyChow]

How can we have a standard of right and wrong if we all evolved. All it would be is other opinions if it was like that. If evolution is true and The bible isn't, what makes it wrong to kill someone because you want to?

Years of evolution may have selected against those who go around killing others; it doesn't further a species survival, and may have been frowned upon by prospective mates in the past (they don't want to be killed). Thus, the idea that killing is alright (if it is a gene) would not go very far, and if it was an acquired idea, parents would probably teach their kids not to kill or such in order to find a mate (okay, that concepts really funny).

I'm a Christian, but that's a very hard argument to make, that we wouldn't have morals if there wasn't a God.

[Essence]

Simple question: if religion is bad, why did we evolve to believe in the supernatural?

[maverixk]

Simple question: if religion is bad, why did we evolve to believe in the supernatural?

I can't really answer that, but there are some evolutions that haven't benefitted a species, but didn't necessarily kill them as a species either.

[IceySammy]

Evolving doesn't affect what we believe in or don't really, some of us beleive in the supernatural due to someone at some point having a idea about something that they considered impossible or to explain what was happening when they couldn't explain it. "Supernatural beliefs evolve from the ancient people that didn’t know any better and were scared of everything
unknown to them. They spread their stories about things that they saw and created stories to account for the happenings. Most of the things that happened could be explained through science but there wasn’t any scientific knowledge back then. Ever play the game ‘Telephone’ and what was said at the beginning wasn’t what was heard at the end? People just naturally love to embellish stories and I believe that is how the supernatural stuff was created." That is what one person has said about this sort of convosation before and is one reason as to why we may have and still do believe in the supernatural at times, plus it seems human nature to try and scare other people to make them heed our every word as law so whats more scary than mentioning something that people know nothing really about? It is like going up to a really young child and telling them that if they go downstairs or out their room at night a monster will eat them, it scares them and keeps them under control.
Oh also I found this on a wiki page "The supernatural or supranatural (Latin: super, supra "above" + natura "nature") is not clearly defined because the antithesis, the natural is not clearly defined rendering: above or beyond what one holds to be natural or existing outside the laws of nature. Some people associate the supernatural with the paranormal, the occult or religion. In Catholicism and historical Scholasticism, divine miracles are considered supernatural."

My view is that religion is mainly there to make people feel like even though they mess up their lives etc that in some weird way their life had some meaning, its more there as a crutch for people that aren't (in some terms) stronge enough to live just to live. Some people need their religion (even when it can be proven wrong) to keep them living life, without it they would be nothing but a jibbering wreck in the corner of a room. Religion in some ways is bad as it has been the thing for 2,000 years that has caused countless wars and arguements, is has been used by most to keep everyone else under control and to promote fear that if you do something they deem wrong you go to "hell".
But that is just my view and opinion. People can believe whatever they want as its only half the religion's fault its mainly the people trying to follow it.
Now back to enjoying the convosation

[OldTrees]

How can we have a standard of right and wrong if we all evolved. All it would be is other opinions if it was like that. If evolution is true and The bible isn't, what makes it wrong to kill someone because you want to?

Which of the myriad philosophies do you want me to present?
The theory that happiness is good and suffering is bad, the theory of Rights and Duties, the theory of Virtues and Vices, or another? Most present day theologians reject the theory that something is good because God commands it in favor of the theory that God command something because it is good.

Something vital to point out: Your interpretation of the moral code dictated through the Bible is your opinion. While your opinion may correlate with the objective standard, it is not the objective standard in and off itself. The same is true for most other moral philosophies. We all are trying to alter our opinions until they match with the objective standard.

[Essence]

Except that science has found the part of the brain that is responsible for believing in religion.  There is no part of our physical existence, not even the appendix, that isn't shaped by evolution to help us survive.  That includes the parts of our brain.

So why did we evolve a 'belief center' in our brains?

[johannhowitzer]

My view is that religion is mainly there to make people feel like even though they mess up their lives etc that in some weird way their life had some meaning, its more there as a crutch for people that aren't (in some terms) stronge enough to live just to live.

Counterexample: I know many people who find their meaning in helping other people, not in their religion.  Some of these are very religious people.  But invariably these people also have a great deal of personal strength.

Religion in some ways is bad as it has been the thing for 2,000 years that has caused countless wars and arguements, is has been used by most to keep everyone else under control and to promote fear that if you do something they deem wrong you go to "hell".

Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people.  There have been as many wars that were driven by monarchical greed - pretty much all of Rome's conquest, for example.  People will always find reasons to kill.

[OldTrees]

Except that science has found the part of the brain that is responsible for believing in religion.  There is no part of our physical existence, not even the appendix, that isn't shaped by evolution to help us survive.  That includes the parts of our brain.

So why did we evolve a 'belief center' in our brains?

Misleading and partially incorrect.
1) Evolution has not motive (your sentence appears to imply it does)
2) Evolution includes changes that do not affect or negatively affect survival.

Humans have the ability to guess at future events. Humans use the ability to hold beliefs about the world to use this ability. Since this consequence had a mostly positive impact on relative reproductive success, this trait was likely to reach fixation (aka be universal in the population).

Also Beliefs in general can behave very similar to contagious infections (infections can increase, decrease or have no effect on survival of the host) [See Memes]