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Offline Nepycros

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408537#msg408537
« Reply #144 on: October 12, 2011, 12:36:35 pm »
you make a valid point but then again I don't expect anyone who doesn't believe like me to go along with what I say. if I did I may as well go live in a padded room
Very true. Tell me, if there are conditions with claiming God doesn't exist, where are the conditions situated with claiming there are?
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Offline Skotadi Phobos

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408590#msg408590
« Reply #145 on: October 12, 2011, 03:39:33 pm »
I could also argue this. explain to me how a bacteria, the simples form of life on earth, could have evolved from a pool a chemicals when it is such a finely tuned and precise creature. there just simply has to be a designer.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408594#msg408594
« Reply #146 on: October 12, 2011, 03:52:52 pm »
I could also argue this. explain to me how a bacteria, the simples form of life on earth, could have evolved from a pool a chemicals when it is such a finely tuned and precise creature. there just simply has to be a designer.
This is completely off topic. Evolution deals with how existing life changes. Abiogenesis =/= Evolution.
Evolution would attempt to explain how the first living cells evolved into bacteria and other forms of life.
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Offline Skotadi Phobos

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408598#msg408598
« Reply #147 on: October 12, 2011, 04:00:43 pm »
I could also argue this. explain to me how a bacteria, the simples form of life on earth, could have evolved from a pool a chemicals when it is such a finely tuned and precise creature. there just simply has to be a designer.
This is completely off topic. Evolution deals with how existing life changes. Abiogenesis =/= Evolution.
Evolution would attempt to explain how the first living cells evolved into bacteria and other forms of life.
true
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Offline Belthus

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408818#msg408818
« Reply #148 on: October 13, 2011, 12:08:08 am »
I could also argue this. explain to me how a bacteria, the simples form of life on earth, could have evolved from a pool a chemicals when it is such a finely tuned and precise creature. there just simply has to be a designer.
This is an argument from ignorance and as such is a logical fallacy. Scientists can study that particular question and have made progress on it. Even if they had not made any progress, it is mistaken to say that a lack of knowledge, on any subject, implies the existence of God. If you don't know how many stars are in the Andromeda Galaxy, does that mean that God made it, or just that you are ignorant on the number of stars in the Andromeda Galaxy?

Offline Skotadi Phobos

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408831#msg408831
« Reply #149 on: October 13, 2011, 12:25:03 am »
I could also argue this. explain to me how a bacteria, the simples form of life on earth, could have evolved from a pool a chemicals when it is such a finely tuned and precise creature. there just simply has to be a designer.
This is an argument from ignorance and as such is a logical fallacy. Scientists can study that particular question and have made progress on it. Even if they had not made any progress, it is mistaken to say that a lack of knowledge, on any subject, implies the existence of God. If you don't know how many stars are in the Andromeda Galaxy, does that mean that God made it, or just that you are ignorant on the number of stars in the Andromeda Galaxy?
I am talking about complexity. your answer in my opinion is completely irrelevant and I was just giving one of the main reasons why I believe in God.
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Offline Nepycros

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408834#msg408834
« Reply #150 on: October 13, 2011, 12:30:53 am »
I could also argue this. explain to me how a bacteria, the simples form of life on earth, could have evolved from a pool a chemicals when it is such a finely tuned and precise creature. there just simply has to be a designer.
This is an argument from ignorance and as such is a logical fallacy. Scientists can study that particular question and have made progress on it. Even if they had not made any progress, it is mistaken to say that a lack of knowledge, on any subject, implies the existence of God. If you don't know how many stars are in the Andromeda Galaxy, does that mean that God made it, or just that you are ignorant on the number of stars in the Andromeda Galaxy?
I am talking about complexity. your answer in my opinion is completely irrelevant and I was just giving one of the main reasons why I believe in God.
"God exists because things are too complex to occur naturally" is one of the most basic arguments because the human mind cannot encompass the laws of physics to the extremities. Reality will not paint a pretty picture we all agree with just because we want it to be that way. After all, our brains simply construct a model of the universe. Model-independent reality doesn't exist, from what I've read.
Perception is the source of misunderstanding.

Why, yes. I do have a Mindgate necklace. It's how I ninja everyone.

Offline Skotadi Phobos

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408836#msg408836
« Reply #151 on: October 13, 2011, 12:35:17 am »
I could also argue this. explain to me how a bacteria, the simples form of life on earth, could have evolved from a pool a chemicals when it is such a finely tuned and precise creature. there just simply has to be a designer.
This is an argument from ignorance and as such is a logical fallacy. Scientists can study that particular question and have made progress on it. Even if they had not made any progress, it is mistaken to say that a lack of knowledge, on any subject, implies the existence of God. If you don't know how many stars are in the Andromeda Galaxy, does that mean that God made it, or just that you are ignorant on the number of stars in the Andromeda Galaxy?
I am talking about complexity. your answer in my opinion is completely irrelevant and I was just giving one of the main reasons why I believe in God.
"God exists because things are too complex to occur naturally" is one of the most basic arguments because the human mind cannot encompass the laws of physics to the extremities. Reality will not paint a pretty picture we all agree with just because we want it to be that way. After all, our brains simply construct a model of the universe. Model-independent reality doesn't exist, from what I've read.
then get the chemicals necessary for life in a pot wait for a few years and show me the life that spawns from it. it just won't happen
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Offline Nepycros

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408837#msg408837
« Reply #152 on: October 13, 2011, 12:36:22 am »
I could also argue this. explain to me how a bacteria, the simples form of life on earth, could have evolved from a pool a chemicals when it is such a finely tuned and precise creature. there just simply has to be a designer.
This is an argument from ignorance and as such is a logical fallacy. Scientists can study that particular question and have made progress on it. Even if they had not made any progress, it is mistaken to say that a lack of knowledge, on any subject, implies the existence of God. If you don't know how many stars are in the Andromeda Galaxy, does that mean that God made it, or just that you are ignorant on the number of stars in the Andromeda Galaxy?
I am talking about complexity. your answer in my opinion is completely irrelevant and I was just giving one of the main reasons why I believe in God.
"God exists because things are too complex to occur naturally" is one of the most basic arguments because the human mind cannot encompass the laws of physics to the extremities. Reality will not paint a pretty picture we all agree with just because we want it to be that way. After all, our brains simply construct a model of the universe. Model-independent reality doesn't exist, from what I've read.
then get the chemicals necessary for life in a pot wait for a few years and show me the life that spawns from it. it just won't happen
"Just won't work?" I assume you've tried, then? And found proof that such a thing cannot occur?
And they tell me I have to make proof God doesn't exist.  ;D
Perception is the source of misunderstanding.

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Offline Nepycros

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408838#msg408838
« Reply #153 on: October 13, 2011, 12:38:21 am »
Hate to double-post, but I will emphasize that WE ARE A CHEMICAL REACTION. The universe flows on evenly, matter changing forms constantly. We are not some extra-special species endowed with being separate from the universe's laws. We are, in our most basic form, a result of several actions in the past.
Perception is the source of misunderstanding.

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Offline OldTrees

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408843#msg408843
« Reply #154 on: October 13, 2011, 12:51:42 am »
I could also argue this. explain to me how a bacteria, the simples form of life on earth, could have evolved from a pool a chemicals when it is such a finely tuned and precise creature. there just simply has to be a designer.
This is an argument from ignorance and as such is a logical fallacy. Scientists can study that particular question and have made progress on it. Even if they had not made any progress, it is mistaken to say that a lack of knowledge, on any subject, implies the existence of God. If you don't know how many stars are in the Andromeda Galaxy, does that mean that God made it, or just that you are ignorant on the number of stars in the Andromeda Galaxy?
I am talking about complexity. your answer in my opinion is completely irrelevant and I was just giving one of the main reasons why I believe in God.
"God exists because things are too complex to occur naturally" is one of the most basic arguments because the human mind cannot encompass the laws of physics to the extremities. Reality will not paint a pretty picture we all agree with just because we want it to be that way. After all, our brains simply construct a model of the universe. Model-independent reality doesn't exist, from what I've read.
then get the chemicals necessary for life in a pot wait for a few years and show me the life that spawns from it. it just won't happen
Amphiphilic lipids spontaneously form a semipermiable double membraned vesicle that allows RNA monomers to diffuse through the membrane but prevents RNA polymers from doing so. These vesicles can grow by spontaneously adding more Amphiphilic lipids to their membranes. The branching nature of such growth combined with currents will cause asexual reproduction.
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Offline Belthus

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Re: are you creationist or evolutionist? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=29675.msg408868#msg408868
« Reply #155 on: October 13, 2011, 01:42:46 am »
I am talking about complexity. your answer in my opinion is completely irrelevant and I was just giving one of the main reasons why I believe in God.
Then your belief rests on a logical fallacy. What you can or cannot understand, due to complexity or any other reason, has nothing to do with the existence of God. It merely states a relationship between your mental capacity and the subject matter - that it is beyond you. That's OK. We all have our limits of understanding. But those limits have no bearing on God's existence.

 

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