are you creationist or evolutionist?

[Pineapple]

Who created the creator because that creator had to be equally spectacular. Once again, Always, always is, and always will be. You have made no logical argument as to why that could not be, as such, I will stick with it.

Um, just wondering, what is this a response to?

[OldTrees]

Creation cannot exist without an uncreated cause for the creation.

"Who made God?" and "What caused nature?" are both questions that tend to indicate the questioner is ignoring the above fact.

[maverixk]

Creation cannot exist without an uncreated cause for the creation.

Just to specify more what I think OT's thoughts are: ^ However, the uncreated cause does not necessarily mean a Deity or sentient being.

[Nepycros]

Unless there is literally a paradoxical infinite loop that means that each caused event is caused by something that was caused by something, eventually going back to the original caused event. Then the only 'uncaused' thing would be the loop itself.

[0gr0]

Creation cannot exist without an uncreated cause for the creation.

"Who made God?" and "What caused nature?" are both questions that tend to indicate the questioner is ignoring the above fact.

unless it has never been created, in other words, that has always existed

[OldTrees]

Creation cannot exist without an uncreated cause for the creation.

"Who made God?" and "What caused nature?" are both questions that tend to indicate the questioner is ignoring the above fact.

unless it has never been created, in other words, that has always existed

The first cause of creation is necessarily uncaused. If something never was created then it might qualify as a uncreated cause for a creation provided it caused a creation.

Creation cannot exist without an uncreated cause for the creation.

Just to specify more what I think OT's thoughts are: ^ However, the uncreated cause does not necessarily mean a Deity or sentient being.

Common answers to "What was the/a uncreated cause of creation?" (in no particular order)
Natural laws
A God
A loop of self causing creation (thanks for the Hitchhiker's reference Nepycros )
Other

[Artois]

I think you are missing my early point... if life and the universe and the amazing things in it are so profound/spectacular that they cannot be spontaneous and must have been created by an amazing creator of infinite power (ie. a cosmic malevolent Pineapple God), then that begets the question of an amazing/spectacular all-powerful super-dooper 'Pineapple' that is soo spectacular it must have been created itself, as it is too amazing to cosmically 'just appear'?!

PS.  What was God doing for the infinite eternity 'before' he created everything? 

[BluePriest]

I think you are missing my early point... if life and the universe and the amazing things in it are so profound/spectacular that they cannot be spontaneous and must have been created by an amazing creator of infinite power (ie. a cosmic malevolent Pineapple God), then that begets the question of an amazing/spectacular all-powerful super-dooper 'Pineapple' that is soo spectacular it must have been created itself, as it is too amazing to cosmically 'just appear'?!

PS.  What was God doing for the infinite eternity 'before' he created everything? 

Eh, I just take that as "Creation could not have appeared without a creator, so evolution can NOT be correct".

[maverixk]

@BP: Are you saying that's what you believe, or that's what you're taking from Artois's post?

[OldTrees]

I think you are missing my early point... if life and the universe and the amazing things in it are so profound/spectacular that they cannot be spontaneous and must have been created by an amazing creator of infinite power (ie. a cosmic malevolent Pineapple God), then that begets the question of an amazing/spectacular all-powerful super-dooper 'Pineapple' that is soo spectacular it must have been created itself, as it is too amazing to cosmically 'just appear'?!

PS.  What was God doing for the infinite eternity 'before' he created everything? 

Pardon the difficulty of the reading to follow.

line 1) Thing X is known to be created. (possibly by nature, a god or something else)
line 2) IF Thing X being so ADJECTIVE implies that it had to have been created by something of even greater ADJECTIVE.
line 3) THEN there would be an infinite chain of things with greater and greater ADJECTIVE each creating the previous.
line 4) HOWEVER I would claim "Creation cannot exist without an uncreated cause for the creation."
line 5) THEREFORE line 2 is false.

Note: This is disproving the argument not the conclusion.

PS: If a uncreated God created something, why would it matter what such a being did before?

[Artois]

PS: If a uncreated God created something, why would it matter what such a being did before?

BUT there is no proof that God doesn't exist, so how can you validate that there is an uncreated Creator?

...or as Woody Allen said, "You cannot prove the nonexistence of God; you just have to take it on faith.” Is being an atheist as unscientific a stance as believing in God? Isn’t it more intellectually honest to be agnostic?

[0gr0]

"The present king of France is bald." How is this sentence, taking into account that there isn't today, a king in France? This is the paradox known as the King of France: is this expression true, is it false?, Does this sentence makes sense?
What do you think?