Are humans innately good or evil?

[Zeru]

You called me a selfish hypocrite. Thanks for that. Another insult that I'll never be able to forgive.

No I didn't. My intellect is probably dulled after long vacation, so I may not use the correct words to put uy thoughts here.
It just occurred to me that being afraid of some illusions is a weak drive for good. I didn't want to insult you in any way. In fact, you started one of the best topics in this section.

If humans are innately and biologically evil, then humanity will eventually destroy itself. I would very much like to believe that humans are innately good, but my past experiences tell me otherwise.

Humanity will die out sooner or later. There is a lot of stupidity out there.

Off topic: Anyone knows any good ways to blow off some steam? I feel like I'm about to snap. I need to make up with my friend soon, because I really need to talk to someone...

You should try to think about the stuff that relaxes you. If after a long time of thinking you still don't know, maybe try new experiences? After all, every person has different preferences, and you might find genuine tips from other people annoying and not effective.

[Bloodshadow]

No I didn't. My intellect is probably dulled after long vacation, so I may not use the correct words to put uy thoughts here.
It just occurred to me that being afraid of some illusions is a weak drive for good. I didn't want to insult you in any way. In fact, you started one of the best topics in this section.

No, it was nothing personal. You only said something I interpreted as insulting, so my unforgiving nature will never allow me to forgive you. The same thing happens to everyone who insults me, basically, except for the ones I despise.

Humanity will die out sooner or later. There is a lot of stupidity out there.

And I don't want humanity to end... Sigh. Humanity is doomed, and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

[vrt]

No, it was nothing personal. You only said something I interpreted as insulting, so my unforgiving nature will never allow me to forgive you. The same thing happens to everyone who insults me, basically, except for the ones I despise.

Dude, you're probably better off on a shrink's couch than on these forums. Just saying.

[pepokish]

I'm having trouble understanding why selfishness equates evilness. 

[EvaRia]

If he decided that Selfishness= Evilness, that's his decision and you can't do anything about it.

[pepokish]

....yes, and the same goes for if I decide that the sky is purple.  I didn't say I wanted to do anything about it, I just said it doesn't make much sense to me. 

[EvaRia]

Different people decide different things. This shapes their perception of the world.
If their decisions are different, their view on the world is different as well.
If they refuse to believe otherwise, then there cannot be an understanding, and people will fight over what's right.
It's true, if you decide the sky is purple and refuse to believe otherwise, and I decide it is grey, then we cannot come to an understanding of each others' perspective of the sky.
You can try to understand, but I see no reason to change yourself just to fit the view of someone else.
This is just my little thought on perception.

[pepokish]

Well, er, I don't really think you're following your own logic by talking to me about this, but maybe I'm misunderstanding you, somehow.  If so, I hope you'll forgive my misunderstanding, as I have a head cold and I'm really not feeling too well.  (:

Are you trying to say that everyone has their own perceptions, and no one should ever question that or even address it?  How is humanity supposed to move forward, unless we question the world around us and our perception of it?

If I believe that the sky is purple, you're just going to let me carry on with that incorrect perception, even if you have the capability to prove otherwise?  What if it was something more dangerous, such as "all people of a certain race should be exterminated"?  Would you simply let that perception slide, as well?

Besides, like I said... I didn't want to change my viewpoint or anyone else's.  I have no idea where you're getting that.  This is a discussion, I posted an opening to further the discussion.  That's how these things typically work...?

[kalkiran]

firstly im sorry your upset bloodshadow.
i think that you cant describe humanity as a whole as good or evil. theres too many people, some are good-some arent.
also theres a psychology debate on just this topic-the homo economicus vs. homo altruisiticus argument.
socrates the ancient greek philosopher said that no-one willing errs(does wrong)

[EvaRia]

@pepokish
What I'm trying to say is this:
You decided the sky is purple.
I decided the sky is grey.
We BOTH think the other is wrong.
Neither of us can believe the other.
We try to correct each other yet fail to reach an understanding.

The reason I brought this up is because it's the reason why there is so much discussion in a simple looking topic.
Since everyone has different decisions on what Good and Evil means, AND on the nature of humanity, you get a large variety of opinions, and little agreement.

[Bloodshadow]

Dude, you're probably better off on a shrink's couch than on these forums. Just saying.

It's OK. If I pretend that I have forgiven all those people who hurt me, then I'm sure it will no longer be a problem to you. That's what I always did anyways.

If a person really pisses me off and wants to hurt me, then to me that person is "dead" and no longer matters to me. His insults will no longer hurt.

I'm having trouble understanding why selfishness equates evilness. 

Selfishness by itself is not evil, but it does make you want to help yourself instead of helping others. Combine that with greed, and you will want to increase your own wealth at the expense of other people. Which is pretty evil to me.

To me, selfishness plus greed equals evil. Goodness is the opposite of that: altruism and the desire to give.

[Glitch]

Let me start out by saying this:

Good and evil do not exist.

Never, in the history of warfare, has one side /ever/ admitted to being evil.  Because no side ever has been.  In World War 2, most Nazi's didn't know about the anti-semitism, and those who did turned the other cheek because they didn't want to die.  In fact, Germany had this huge depression after WW1 that was entirely the allies fault, and they had a really legitimate reason to be pissed.  And, let's be honest, if you've /never/ fantasized about being an evil mastermind, you aren't normal.  It's just something everyone kind of wants to be.

And that goes further.  Because, in my years on the internet, I've learned something.  Everyone is the exact same.  To simplify, let's look at a highschool and it's cliques, simplified down, a lot.

The Jocks
The Nerds
The Preppy kids
The Gangsters

I personally am a nerd.  As such, I am not allowed to do anything the other groups do, but deep down, I want to do everything those groups do.  I'm a short white kid, but I'm surprisingly good at basketball, and I'm well coordinated.  I have a swimmers build as well.  But I've never applied myself to sports because I'm not supposed to.  I wouldn't mind simply sitting in the back of the classroom and goofing off, maybe being a tough guy, but I can't.  Similarly, I can't be one of those guys who has thousands of friends and is never single.  But you know what?  Every single one of those people wishes they were me, secretly.  All of them wish they could get the grades I do as easily.  They watch me play nerdy games like Magic and DnD, and laugh at me, but if they saw me sitting around a table and doing nothing but having fun for 8 hours on end, they'd be pretty damn jealous.  Because everyone on this planet is the exact same, but we're too scared to admit it.

(In the adult world, these examples are for more subtle, but they still exist.  The secretary has always secretly wanted to be the CEO, and make tons of money, and the CEO secretly wants a simple desk job and the ability to go home at the end of the day and spend time with her family.)

It breaks down to instincts.  I don't like what I have.  You don't like what I have.  I have something different from you.  As such, you have what I want, and I have what you want.  I won't just give it to you for free, I earned what I have.  You won't give me what I want.  So we both fight each other to take what we want.  Even if what we want, like secretly wanting to be able to break dance, is intangible and can't be stolen.  Cue: war.

So, when you ask "Are humans inherently good or evil," I ask you what those terms mean.  How can anyone, truly, be evil?

Dude, you're probably better off on a shrink's couch than on these forums. Just saying.

It's OK. If I pretend that I have forgiven all those people who hurt me, then I'm sure it will no longer be a problem to you. That's what I always did anyways.

If a person really pisses me off and wants to hurt me, then to me that person is "dead" and no longer matters to me. His insults will no longer hurt.

I'm having trouble understanding why selfishness equates evilness. 

Selfishness by itself is not evil, but it does make you want to help yourself instead of helping others. Combine that with greed, and you will want to increase your own wealth at the expense of other people. Which is pretty evil to me.

To me, selfishness plus greed equals evil. Goodness is the opposite of that: altruism and the desire to give.

The thief secretly wishes he could give his money away and be good, and the nun secretly wishes she could hoard her money and be rich.  People act not on how they are, but how they think they're supposed to be.