Want to know how much is score and gold gain for each AI3 fight?

[Marvaddin]

Hi, all.

For like 2 weeks, I was playing vs AI3. The goal was to do 1000 fights, keeping track of score and gold gains. I was not taking note of turns to win. The deck was one of the fastest and overall best rush decks, this one:

Code: [Select]

4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 5c1 5c1 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 71a 74e 77g 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq
Before the results, just try answer: how much gold should this deck (low EM rate) gain from each fight, considering the victory itself, plus spin bonus and cards to sell?

Here are the results:

1.  mark, 36 cards,  + 
70-0, including 8 EMs
1413 score; 20,2 / fight
4460 gold; 63,7 / fight
Easy deck, even if Squid comes, usually doesnt use it much, and even using, he cant put the Dragon (main damage source) in play. Gives a lot of gold. Dragons are worth a lot, and it can give you some Squids too. It has by far the highest gold / fight rate.

2.  mark, 37 cards,  + 
73-0, including 3 EMs
1346 score; 18,4 / fight
2822 gold; 38,6 / fight
Difficult to EM, many cheap creature, but its slow to deal damage, so victories are easy. Not very good for the spins, however.

3.  mark, 38 cards,  +  + 
92-0, including 10 EMs
1833 score; 19,9 / fight
4372 gold; 47,5 / fight
The Miracle FG, AI3 version. Using 3 elements, he sometimes cant put anything in play. He has no control, so its a very easy prey. Usually has no quanta to play the Miracle.

4.  mark, 38 cards,  +  + 
79-3, including 5 EMs
1475 score; 18,0 / fight
3729 gold; 45,5 / fight
Not very hard. Beware of Thunderstorm! Other than that, the main problem is Owl's Eye. In one of my defeats, he even got 2 (1 flying), so my army was quickly decimated.

5.  mark, 38 cards,  +  + 
99-1, no EMs
1725 score; 17,25 / fight
3356 gold; 33,6 / fight
Very difficult to EM due to cheap cards like Poison and Ash Eater. He also make your damage slower, usually killing at least 1 Destroyer with Fire Bolt. Usually, however, not a real threat. The loss was due to Fire Shield.

6.  mark, 40 cards,  + 
83-6, including 3 EMs
1377 score; 15,5 / fight
2884 gold; 34,2 / fight
The one that caused most losses. Has some stall skill with Freeze, Ice Bolt, Squid and Ice Shield, and Poison can increase really fast. Hard to EM, its possible just when he dont draw Death Pillars.

7.  mark, 40 cards,  + 
68-3, no EMs
1080 score; 15,2 / fight
3147 gold; 44,3 / fight
The deck that cause overall most damage. Lycanthropes do a fair damage really fast. What really hurts, however, its Maxwell's Demon. Can still give a fair ammount of gold, because most cards he uses are worth like 40 gold.

8.  mark, 40 cards,  + 
91-0, including 1 EM
1658 score; 18,2 / fight
3264 gold; 35,9 / fight
He could be a problem, but never won, and put my health under 50 just twice. If Im correct, he has only 1 Oty, so its not really dangerous. Other problem was Gravity Shield. Dont grow all creatures over its limit and its ok. Difficult to EM, will always put in play an Angel / Armaggio / Short Sword.

9.  mark, 44 cards,  +   
83-5, including 1 EM
1389 score; 15,8 / fight
2940 gold; 33,4 / fight
Almost impossible to EM, he has Photons, Short Sword, and Eggs.The single EM, the Egg has turned into a Devourer, lol. Can slow you down with Lightining and Reverse Time, but dangerous things are Procrastination and Eternity.

10.  mark, 44 cards,  + 
92-3, including 5 EMs
1609 score; 16,9 / fight
3621 gold; 38,1 / fight
Uses Basilisk Blood, Reverse Time, Titanium Shield and Stone Skin, so the fight usually lasts longer than normal. The main problem is Eternity, however. The good part is that he normally dont have quanta to play it. He has Earthquakes, too, but I was unable to see a single one

11.  mark, 45 cards,  +  +  (sparks)
75-1, including 2 EMs
1387 score; 18,25 / fight
3037 gold; 40,0 / fight
Hard to EM, he has Spark, Virus, Ash Eater. However, his damage is slow, so you can usually win easily. The loss was to Fire Shield.

12.  mark, 58 cards,  + Rainbow
72-1, including 1 EM
1276 score; 17,5 / fight
2176 gold; 29,8 / fight
Hard to EM (will put in play a Rustler or Forest Spirit using mark quanta), easy to win. Has by far the lowest gold / fight rate. Gives less cards from spins, and they are cheap (most common are Nova and Heal).


TOTAL:
977-23, including 38 EMs
17568 score; 17,568 / fight
39808 gold; 39,808 / fight
Gold sources:
Victories: 17568 (includes 760 from EM bonus)
Spin bonus: 4995 (999 times, its almost 1 / fight rate)
Cards to sell: 17245 (413 cards, at 41,8 gold / card)

So, after 1000 fights, I had a rate of 39,8 gold / fight, this with a low ammount of EMs. I had no idea this could be so high. And note that the most profitable opponent is the one that I fought the least.

Now Im thinking about to play 1000 fights using an EM deck, so we can know whats the most profitable. People can surely test the ammount of games / hour of each deck. Whats the fastest EM rush deck? Life? Or Darkness using vampires, dagger and Eclipse?

[DrunkDestroyer]

Good work you've done here.

I find it slightly surprising that you EM'd more than you lost. (Granted AI3's are not difficult to beat with a 100% win ratio, if you are willing to sacrifice speed-which this deck does not)

I actually find  harder than you seemed to make it, as mind flayers severely hinder my deck, and if they use their squids well, I can be very screwed. However, they also can make the mistake of fractalling one of your water cards (eg Chrysaora) and screw up their quanta usage.

+ Karma.

[3D House of Beef]

Amazing work and diligent statkeeping.  I am a sucker for data.  +Karma

[zse]

Whats the fastest EM rush deck? Life? Or Darkness using vampires, dagger and Eclipse?

There are couple really good fully upped T3 grinding EM-decks, but this is my favorite:
The Ultimate Speed EM Deck

Code: [Select]

6rk 6rk 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7buReplacing 1 Heal with Nymph makes it even better, but that's really good even without that change.
And then there's this DEMA. They say that it's even faster than that^ deck and gives almost as high EM%. DEMA takes a lot more skill/focus if you want to get high EM%, since sometimes you win before you get the final healing boost from Dagger.
DEMA: Destroy 'EM All! V2.1 

Code: [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 77g 77g 7ai 7ai 7ai 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7dq 7ds 7tb 7tb 809 809 809 809 809 809

[Marvaddin]

Thanks for Karma, people.

100% win rate vs AI 3, I think, its impossible. Bad draws (like no Cremation in 17 cards) costed me some of my losses, including the one to mark deck. This is not frequent, having 6 of that in 30 cards, but happens. Of course the win rate (already over 97%) could be higher, but wouldnt bet in 100%. This is also related to the sample size. 23 losses in 1k games, but I got 100 or more vitories in a row 4x (132 was my record). Then, sometimes I got 5 losses in 50 games.

In fact, I also remember myself losing to and deck some games before this test, so I was also surprised by how easy it was. It caused trouble in just like 5 games. Well, even if it was more dangerous, its the most profitable anyway, so, it would be fine.

About decks to test an EM rush, well, I wont play that DEMA deck, lol. 1k games is already a lot... keeping track of stats its even more. But calculating the way to Vampire Dagger give the final blow, to have EM, that would be sick Hmmm, maybe I will get it on the trainer and see if I like it.

About the Life deck, its more alike the "mindless" game play Im looking for. Anyway, I think that 4 Heal, and 1 Sword should be enough, dont you? I even have a Life Nymph, dunno if would be a good idea testing a deck most people cant copy (sure, 1st one has Arsenic, but its much less rare). What more could I use to increase speed or effectiveness of the deck? Forest Spirit and Water mark or some pendulum? Mark Fire or Darkness and some PC?

A Darkness deck is possible? Vampires, Dragons, Liquid Shadow? It can use Syphon Life (CC), and 1-2 Steal (PC, permanents caused most of my losses). Of course, if the control is too much, its no more a rush deck.

Well, I would like to see some more suggestions (even why Im going to use a good ammount of gold to upgrade cards, lol). Anyone?

[tinkady]

definitely life rush or DEMA. I use DEMA myself, but thats just cuz i already had a bunch of the cards upped
but you should consult Jmdt before you do anything lol

[genraenera]

I believe the best possible score AND money gain is done with the following deck, against Ai3:

Code: [Select]

6rk 6rk 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu
It's what I use to farm Ai3, and it EM's around 80% of the time, and like any ai3 deck it wins next to 100%.  It's TTW (realistically, with shields and CC factored in) is around 7-8 from my experiences.  While the OP deck and other immo-decks can get a 5-6 TTW, they rarely EM, making an EM deck with 2 more TTW a better choice.
The only annoyance with this deck is the entropy one can get an early discord and mess you up, but even that is RARE.

[Marvaddin]

Dunno, looks like it has more Heals than it would need. 1 should be enough for EM in most fights. What about -2 Heals, -1 Long Sword (or maybe a Tower), +3 Explosion, Fire mark? Not sure, but looks like this is more vulnerable to Shields and CC cards, or its just me?

Anyway, I will test it in the trainer. Next week I will probably start the new 1k fights test.

[zse]

Dunno, looks like it has more Heals than it would need. 1 should be enough for EM in most fights. What about -2 Heals, -1 Long Sword (or maybe a Tower), +3 Explosion, Fire mark? Not sure, but looks like this is more vulnerable to Shields and CC cards, or its just me?

Anyway, I will test it in the trainer. Next week I will probably start the new 1k fights test.

-2 Heal +2 Nymph or +1 Nymph +1 Scorpion is OK, but don't do any of those other things. Shields in AI3 wont cause you any problems. Worst that can happen is getting really bad luck with Ice Shield combined with hordes of poison, or Discord+Devourers+Maxwell. Having Explosions & Mark will just make you grind lot slower.

[Kuross]

Dunno, looks like it has more Heals than it would need. 1 should be enough for EM in most fights. What about -2 Heals, -1 Long Sword (or maybe a Tower), +3 Explosion, Fire mark? Not sure, but looks like this is more vulnerable to Shields and CC cards, or its just me?

Anyway, I will test it in the trainer. Next week I will probably start the new 1k fights test.

I personally run -2 Heal, +2 Epinephrine myself. I get around 270-300/1 win/loss rate with that deck and EM a lot.

For what it's worth, jmdt has multiple threads with TTW ratios, time to win and what one can expect to win in electrum threads on this deck and I think most everyone agrees it's the best deck to run vs Ai3. Not saying you shouldn't run the 1000 games, but others more or less have and posted the results. If you do run the 1000 gambit, maybe post the numbers on the threads already started and compare them? Might be interesting if you do

[Higurashi]

USEM is perfect as it is. You need all those Heals, and almost a fourth of the matches, they are not enough. If you want more EM, use Jade Staffs instead of Long Swords. My Friends of the Druid (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10062.msg130483.html) has around a 92% EM rate, and is around a turn slower than USEM which has around 78% EM rate.

[Dm]

+ Karma, very nice data. Just would like to point out that could that be as fast with the normal, un-upped counterpart of this deck?