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Offline KeepsTopic starter

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057635#msg1057635
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2013, 02:37:21 pm »
I can understand efficiency because it's TTW is high, but a for WR?  I haven't seen anything with a 63% overall nearly 80% with skips deck?  What is currently beating it?

Offline Absol

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057638#msg1057638
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2013, 02:54:49 pm »
Wow, 63% winrate is so close to old Instosis!
I'll try this later. Meanwhile, who are the 5 skip FGs?

Currently beating this is IIRC SPlat and PDial.
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Offline KeepsTopic starter

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057647#msg1057647
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2013, 03:27:31 pm »
If you see CuCN post it would be.

Eternal Pheonix, Decay, Hermes, Jezebel, Octane
You might want to also skip Dark Matter if the RNG hates you.
Skip these and it's about 80% win rate.

There is a learning curve against some FGs if you know the AI tricks, so for example, mix up the sosa dials to trick it to play creatures when you want it to and free up space for more bravery.  Against Osiris, if it leads with SoFs, use antiflax on them, they will catapult or eat them rather than hang onto them, if Neptune gets 'stuck', be patient, and draw slow for a bit, if he's still stuck, use antiflax so you can use sosas better. 

Offline KeepsTopic starter

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057650#msg1057650
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2013, 03:43:55 pm »
PDial, I call B.S. on that, it can't beat the FGs with Miracle, Healing, Vampire, etc, and it's chain can break easily.  It has to skip almost half the FGs, killing the electrum rate (it does cost 30 after all), that right there puts this about 3000 electrum per 200 games behind this minimum, and it isn't like it plays faster, it has a longer TTW than this does.

Splat, maybe beats it on efficiency, I don't know, but last I heard PDials was more efficient.

 

Offline Chapuz

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057651#msg1057651
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2013, 03:48:51 pm »
Hope it helps with the stats. I lost most of the games.

Divine Glory: LOSS - 3 miracles in a row and poked to death with a single MG
Octane: LOSS
Elidnis: WIN
Eternal Phpenix: LOSS - no SoSa
Osiris: WIN - My draw was luckly enough to protect the SoPas from 2 SoFos.
Akebono: LOSS - Turn 2 Sofo destroyed my single tower and couldn't cast more than 1 SoSa.
Lionheart: WIN (2)
Hermes: LOSS (2) - early protected Fire Buckler
Chaos Lord: LOSS - destroyed early SoPa, can't poke him to death with Cells if he has diss shield.
Seism: LOSS - not enough SoSas, even with enough  :death for the first 2.
Neptune: WON
Akebono: LOSS - Didn't draw SoSas before he destroyed my Sundials
Fire Queen: LOSS - Had to waste all the Sundials before getting the 2nd nova for SoPa and needed 1 more stalling turn in late-game.
Rainbow: LOSS - Too much PC
Chaos Lord: LOSS - Only 1 SoPa until 5 cards left, and stolen in the last turn before winning.
Paradox: Win
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Offline KeepsTopic starter

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057658#msg1057658
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2013, 04:15:55 pm »
Chapuz,

Help with the deck would be.
Against Divine Glory and Chaos Lord, hang onto the SoPa until more cells are out.

Octane, Eternal Phoenix, and Herems are skips so a quarter of your games where destined to be losses.

Also in general, most of your problems are saying that SoSa are coming late, this is hard to believe, by turn 5 in most of these games, you should be drown to your last 12 cards, with 10 delay cards, for 18 turns and 70% of your deck is burnt, the odds that you don't have the delay needed for the end game is very rare. 
I think you might be hanging onto cards when you should be discarding or casting them off otherwise, or perhaps you aren't bravery before sundial card grab.




Offline Chapuz

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057661#msg1057661
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2013, 05:01:55 pm »
Also in general, most of your problems are saying that SoSa are coming late, this is hard to believe, by turn 5 in most of these games, you should be drown to your last 12 cards, with 10 delay cards, for 18 turns and 70% of your deck is burnt, the odds that you don't have the delay needed for the end game is very rare. 
I think you might be hanging onto cards when you should be discarding or casting them off otherwise, or perhaps you aren't bravery before sundial card grab.
No, it's not SoSas coming late, it is no quanta or destroyed Sundials before I play them.

The main problem is that it's extremely fragile. It has 4 different 0-cost cards, what makes you have only 1 pillar against PC FGs getting destroyed, ending no quanta for SoSas after the Afla. Also, against some PC FGs you can use Sundials to protect the SoPas but you end missing stalling turns in late-game.

Also, some FGs have a low damage output (less than 20) so you can't play SoSas. without dying a pair of turns later.
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Offline KeepsTopic starter

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057671#msg1057671
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2013, 05:45:53 pm »
That's even harder for me to understand, It must be something subtly different in playing style.  A risk I'm willing to take that others are not.  There are only 4 SoSa, you only need 8 quanta, you only need one anti-flax for the combo so a total of 13 quanta is required, 6 novas, and 6 pillars easily provide that, you should have lots of extra quanta, not being short in it.  Are you not discarding extra cards if you don't need them against that FG?, for that matter are you bravery/sundial draw to the level of requiring a discard?  Unless the FG is 'stuck' or you started sosas early, you should be drawing 5 to 8 cards a turn for the first few turns.  But CuCN was able to get to reproduce similar results so it's not just me, and I really don't care if others are successful.  I really wanted just a basis of comparison and CuCn's hardwork provided that for me, for me and my play style, nothing out there does better for me,  I can never play Splat well, while others have great results, that's fine.  It's the same with this, some decks just play to certain people's play style.


Offline Rutarete

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057683#msg1057683
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2013, 06:41:29 pm »
I'd like to try this someday.
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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057783#msg1057783
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2013, 12:32:24 am »
7-13, 6 EM

Osiris: Two SoFo came out early, but I baited them to destroy Sundials and no more were played as long as SoSac was active. WIN (EM)
Hecate: Insufficient stall. RP/poison/dagger brought me below 40HP despite Sundial, not that it mattered since I had no SoSac left. LOSE
Divine Glory: Blew up every single pillar. I didn't even have enough to play an Aflatoxin. LOSE
Chaos Lord: 0 pillar draw and Steal mutant. LOSE
Akebono: Great draw, but 2xSoFo. I ended up not having enough quanta to play even a SoSac, and another SoFo hit the field as soon as the chain ended. LOSE
Jezebel: 0 pillar draw, but SoBe got me a pillar. Tried to bait out Steals with Sundials, but there were still too many steals and she got SoP in the end. LOSE
Serket: Lots of SoB in the opening hand makes this easy peasy. WIN (EM)
Dark Matter: 0 pillar draw. Damage came out surprisingly fast. Again, not enough quanta to chain SoSac. LOSE
Jezebel: Aflatoxin didn't come until 7 cards left in the deck. Even the FG's slower-than-normal damage did not save me. LOSE
Dream Catcher: Quick BE/Quicksand. LOSE
Serket: Easy win. Completely unremarkable. WIN (EM)
Akebono: 0 pillar draw, but lots of SoB and Nova. I thought I'd get into lots of trouble when 2xSoFo hit the field, but they got Chimera'd next turn before doing anything. SoFo #3 and SoFo #4, on the other hand, were not nearly as harmless. LOSE
Obliterator: Turn 2 Pulvy. LOSE
Osiris: 0 pillar 0 nova draw. Somehow pulled through despite no pillars until the deck had 13 cards left. SoFo hit the field but got catapulted after 1 use. Ran out of stall anyways, though. LOSE
Incarnate: 0 pillar 0 nova draw. Managed to pull through but thanks to lack of stall had to use SoB more than I would have preferred to, decking out. LOSE
Paradox: A game of major derpitude on all sides. 0 pillar draw... by Paradox, who also only got 1 RoL. On one hand SoB was nearly useless, but on the other hand the ridiculously slow damage meant I had plenty of time to draw the combo normally. I stupidly forgot to chain SoSac but survived with Sundials. WIN
Jezebel: Another game against Jezebel... and another 0 pillar draw. Air Nymph sealed my fate. LOSE
Scorpio: 1 pillar draw by Scorpio, so damage was slow for a while. WIN (EM)
Lionheart: 0 pillar draw. In other words, completely unremarkable. WIN (EM)
Ferox: 0 pillar 0 nova. Again, unremarkable. Singularities are generated in your hand if creature zones are all filled. The more you know... WIN (EM)

Offline KeepsTopic starter

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057806#msg1057806
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2013, 02:59:46 am »
Thanks for trying it mwatha,

As for your games:
Nothing to remarkable to talk about, for the most part wins where they were supposed to be loses against the skips.  For a first pass, well played. 

If you play a bit more you will find Osiris is seriously easy,  just wait a couple turns before you start stall with him, he can't damage you to bad until turn 4 or 5, so why waist it.  Based on your deck out with Incarnate and your play against Akebono, I would say you probably were going for the full OTK or hanging out for more damage at least, once you get down to 10 cards or so, don't burn unless you are forced to. Against the 6/4 and 5/5s (CuCn's winrate) FGs a little more experience and I think you will find them easy too.

Good job baiting Osiris the first time, that's exactly how you deal with him with early SoF, either that or antiflax it.  I'll toss some tips out for others:

Pro Tips: the AI does it's specials in order of casting slot positions, so if a scarab is out before it, it'll eat it and then let the cells fill up it's slots preventing further SoF threat. 

Pro Tip: AI goes Sundial->SoPA->Pillars, which means if an SoF is out on it's side and you have a SoSa and SoPa and you need to save the SoPa for another turn cast the Dial it'll go and and stupidly kill the dial.

Offline CuCN

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Re: The Brave Malignant Ball That Could [OTK][FG][Plat][Gold][63%WR][49%EM] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48075.msg1057821#msg1057821
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2013, 04:19:38 am »
Here's what I think from the testing I did.

This deck is rather unfriendly until you get used to it. It takes unintuitive plays, for example SoX and dial at the same time to protect a SoP (in fact, I won one game against Scorpio by playing both at the same time, which caused him to purify all my poison counters without his creatures attacking so I could stall the last turns I needed my cells to grow with dials) and the strategy varies wildly between FGs, like whether to go for an OTK or do damage over several turns, when to play SoP, what to do with extra afla (discard against Seism, use on Morte's creatures, etc.).

 

anything
blarg: