"Skittles" taste the rainbow!

[Sal]

http://img39.imageshack.us/f/dreamcatcher.png/
Of course the 2 remaining "Hope" are within the last 3 cards lol.

The conclusion i came to after playing the deck for a day:
-Hope is a dead card in your hand. You never want to draw it unless you got 1-2 Quinted FFQs out while the opponent can´t get rid of your Flies. This is highly specific.
-Oty is superior to Ulitharid in pretty much every aspect.
-It is a "win more" combo you usually only setup when you are winning anyway but doesn´t help you at all to get to that point.
-A single Permafrost Shield does the same thing while only demanding a single card without any prequesite.
-It just takes way to long to setup Hope/FFQ/Quint while Permafrost helps you immediately. Most of the time it even makes the Hope obsolete.

Been testing the Deck for a day and wasn´t happy with the result even after tweaking it.
I am now back to my "original" tweaked CCYB.

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6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 6u7 744 74b 74b 77f 77f 77f 77i 77i 7dq 7dq 7gp 7gp 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 80h 80h 80h

[Dragoon1140]

The conclusion i came to after playing the deck for a day:
-Hope is a dead card in your hand. You never want to draw it unless you got 1-2 Quinted FFQs out while the opponent can´t get rid of your Flies. This is highly specific.
-Oty is superior to Ulitharid in pretty much every aspect.
-It is a "win more" combo you usually only setup when you are winning anyway but doesn´t help you at all to get to that point.
-A single Permafrost Shield does the same thing while only demanding a single card without any prequesite.
-It just takes way to long to setup Hope/FFQ/Quint while Permafrost helps you immediately. Most of the time it even makes the Hope obsolete.

Now that you changed the deck into an inflated CCYB, allow be to break down your points piece by piece.

- Hope is not a dead card in your hand.  Since you should have no other use for , playing it will not harm anything and will free up your hand a little.  Because of the immortality of the shield, you don't need to worry about it getting destroyed.

- Because of the FFQ / Hope combo, you should have no desire to om nom nom your opponents creatures.  Instead, Mind Flayer will allow you to disable the nasty skills your opponent's creatures may have.  Plus, not all FG's are vulnerable to Otyugh, while they are weak to Lobotomize.

- Permafrost is a great shield, I'll agree with you on that point, but it requires Shards or another form of healing to properly work against FG's, which is more than one card.  With Hope, you don't have to have Shards on the field.  Instead, you will eventually just block all of the incoming damage anyway, since with Mind Flayer you will never have to worry about Momentum, which is also a major weakness of Permafrost.

- Since you should be running two or three FFQ's in your deck, you don't always have to Quint them.  At a beefy 7 HP, they can take a hit and then some.  If you are still worried about them dying, throw an extra Steam Machine into the deck and allow it to take some of the early CC that some FG's have to offer.  Permafrost also costs 7 , which is not something you can bring out early.  Hope may cost 7 or 8 , but you have Fireflies to fuel it.

[kobisjeruk]

while i agree with most of what dragoon# said...

- Permafrost is a great shield, I'll agree with you on that point, but it requires Shards or another form of healing to properly work against FG's, which is more than one card.  With Hope, you don't have to have Shards on the field.  Instead, you will eventually just block all of the incoming damage anyway, since with Mind Flayer you will never have to worry about Momentum, which is also a major weakness of Permafrost.

sure you dont need shards to work with hope, but you DO rely on other cards, specifically 'bio-light' critters to fuel your hope
and that is more than one card

i've played with the deck a few days and honestly the only attraction is beating DG due to hope which can be a problem for most control-oriented rainbows
apart from that, other rainbow decks do better in every aspect

[Dragoon1140]

sure you dont need shards to work with hope, but you DO rely on other cards, specifically 'bio-light' critters to fuel your hope
and that is more than one card

I wasn't trying to reduce the card count for Hope to work in my point.  I was rather trying to increase the card count for Permafrost to work properly against FG's, emphasizing that Permafrost alone will not stop FG's, you just take too much damage.

[kobisjeruk]

i think you got it backward then

sure perma wont block everything but BY ITSELF, it will definitely block 2 damage from each creature
having SoGs will help a lot but you can start with nothing and cast the shield and reap the benefit
whereas hope really need another card(s) to work or else you will end up with a protected shield that block 0-1 damage (per creature)

btw why are you even arguing this point because SoGs are there in the decklist, its not like adding some more cards
hes just saying permafrost > hope
and combo or not, i have to agree, while hope will eventually 'get there', perma get there right now

[Dragoon1140]

sure perma wont block everything but BY ITSELF, it will definitely block 2 damage from each creature
having SoGs will help a lot but you can start with nothing and cast the shield and reap the benefit
whereas hope really need another card(s) to work or else you will end up with a protected shield that block 0-1 damage (per creature)

Permafrost does block two damage, but, in CCYB, it is very vulnerable to permanent control and Momentum.  Whereas with Hope, you are only vulnerable to mass CC, and if you are upgraded you still block one damage no matter what happens.  However, you can quickly regain those Fireflies with the two or three Firefly Queens you have out.  I just find Hope to be more versatile.

[kobisjeruk]

first you argued perma by itself is not effective (the same can be said about hope)
then you tried to clarify by saying perma alone wont stop FG (so hope alone will stop them? hmm)
then you said hope is more versatile? really? now you're just digging yourself deeper

i guess you are thinking of a different word instead of versatile

[Dragoon1140]

first you argued perma by itself is not effective (the same can be said about hope)
then you tried to clarify by saying perma alone wont stop FG (so hope alone will stop them? hmm)
then you said hope is more versatile? really? now you're just digging yourself deeper

i guess you are thinking of a different word instead of versatile

We don't argue, we debate.   

What I am saying is that both shields need other cards to work, I have never said otherwise.  Yes, Hope needs light-emitting creatures to work well, but it is no different than Permafrost requiring Shards to work well.  Both have their advantages and disadvantages.  With Permafrost, I find that the costs outweigh the good when compared to Hope.

Also, I was thinking of another word instead of versatile.  Perhaps... more recoverable?

EDIT:

I might as well avoid a double post.  Here is the new version of the deck I am using:

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5if 5if 5oj 5oj 5oj 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 77f 77f 7h2 7h2 7k4 7k4 7q5 7q5 80h 80h 80h
The extra Steam Machine help, a lot, in the early game.

[Sal]

- Hope is not a dead card in your hand.  Since you should have no other use for , playing it will not harm anything and will free up your hand a little.  Because of the immortality of the shield, you don't need to worry about it getting destroyed.
...
- Permafrost is a great shield, I'll agree with you on that point, but it requires Shards or another form of healing to properly work against FG's, which is more than one card.  With Hope, you don't have to have Shards on the field.  Instead, you will eventually just block all of the incoming damage anyway, since with Mind Flayer you will never have to worry about Momentum, which is also a major weakness of Permafrost.

Hope
a) draw Hope
b) play Hope for 7
c) draw FFQ
d) play a FFQ for 7
e) end the turn to activate the ability
f) pay 2 to activate FFQ
g)prevent 1 damage
h)hope your fly survives
i) pay 2:life to activate FFQ
g) prevent 2 damage
total investment:  7 7 4 requiring 3 cards and constantly 2 alive Flies at the end of your turn.


Permafrost Shield
a) draw Permafrost Shield
b) play Permafrost Shield for 7
c) prevent 2 damage + 30% to prevent any further damage for the next 3 turns from that creature - per creature
toal investment: 7 requiring 1 card

do i really have to go into more details ?

- Because of the FFQ / Hope combo, you should have no desire to om nom nom your opponents creatures.  Instead, Mind Flayer will allow you to disable the nasty skills your opponent's creatures may have.  Plus, not all FG's are vulnerable to Otyugh, while they are weak to Lobotomize.

They both serve different purposes.

Elite Otyugh
-gets rid of a threat once and for all
-cost 5 to play , 1 to activate
-prevents any damage the creature will do in the future without help
-might not be able to target the creature imediatly (higher toughness than 6, immaterial or burrowed). Might change a few turns later since its toughness can grow with his ability.
-growing power/toughness. can beat quite hard after a while.
-good against everything it is not bad against (see below)
-bad against Puffer Fish, Physalia etc. growth/scavanger* and very high initial Toughness Creatures

Ulitharid
-gets rid of an ability
-cost 3 and 1 to activate
-the targeted creature can still attack as usual and has to be stopped with additonal cards
-might not be able to target the creature (immaterial or burrowed) (not relevant in both cases)
-3/4 body
-good against Puffer Fish, Physalia etc , growth/steal/destroy creatures
-bad against everything else

I´m not saying Ulitharid is bad or anything, i just prefer the Otyugh for creature control since it is more flexible and even capable of shutting down several gods just by itself. While Ulitharid "just" increases your already bad winning chance against the gods i usually skip anyway.

[wavedash]

Let me fix your forumlas.

Hope
a) draw Hope
b) play Hope for 7 Light, be happy that you're blocking 1 damage
c) draw FFQ
d) play a FFQ for 7 Air
e) end the turn to activate the ability
f) pay 2 Life to activate FFQ
g) prevent 2 damage
h) pay 2 Life to activate FFQ
i) prevent 3 damage
j) pay 2 Life
k) prevent 4
l) pay 2
m) prevent 5
etc.

Total cost: 8 Quanta
Sure, you're using a lot more total quanta, but I'm pretty sure you've got Quantum Towers generating every fucking type of quanta.

Permafrost Shield
a) stall with Shards of Gratitude and hope to the god damn gods they don't eat your Water quanta
b) draw Permafrost Shield
c) play Permafrost Shield for 7 Water
d) prevent 2 damage + 30% to prevent any further damage for the next 3 turns from that creature - per creature
e) hope that you draw your damage-dealing cards
toal investment: 7 Quanta + 15 random quanta


I like how your analysis of Otyughs and Mind Flayers conveniently leaves out their part in actual fucking decks. Mind Flayer stops growth and momentum, and that's all you fucking need with Hope.

[Dragoon1140]

Due to the huge amount of debating points in Sal's post, I've chosen to slim it down.

I'm not saying Ulitharid is bad or anything, i just prefer the Otyugh for creature control since it is more flexible and even capable of shutting down several gods just by itself. While Ulitharid "just" increases your already bad winning chance against the gods i usually skip anyway.

Mind Flayer is great to use against every single FG except a select few, except one of which, Divine Glory, is easy to beat with Skittles anyway.  Really, you underestimate how stupid useful Lobotomize is against FG's.  Whatever FG that Otyugh can shut down can also be shut down with Mind Flayer + Firefly/Hope.  Also, you shouldn't skip any FG, unless on a few select occasions.  That is the reason you are getting such a low win %, you don't try against those FG's.

As I've said before, people criticized CCYB the very same way you are, saying that no Eternity and no CC like Otyugh wouldn't work.  However, this is the way anti-FG decks are going towards:  Why kill a creature when you can just completely nullify its damage and make its ability useless?

I like how your analysis of Otyughs and Mind Flayers conveniently leaves out their part in actual f--- decks. Mind Flayer stops growth and momentum, and that's all you f--- need with Hope.

Excusing the cursing, this person makes a good point.

[guolin]

Honestly, I agree with Sal's points, though his points are, imo, the only bad parts about this deck. I mean, it's not a bad deck. Like I've said before, the combo is a little shaky compared to a CCYB.