*Author

Offline TheForbiddenOracle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1789
  • Country: cn
  • Reputation Power: 21
  • TheForbiddenOracle is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.TheForbiddenOracle is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.TheForbiddenOracle is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.TheForbiddenOracle is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg274662#msg274662
« Reply #252 on: February 20, 2011, 05:25:21 pm »
Wow dragoon those are some brilliant strategies

Offline Dragoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1551
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Dragoon hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWinner of Team PvP #5Winner of Rags to Riches - PvP Event
Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg274664#msg274664
« Reply #253 on: February 20, 2011, 05:28:42 pm »
@dragoon, I think u should switch the extra g force to another pend
I did have ~5 games that I didn't draw a single Pendulum (and 2 or 3 of those I didn't draw any the whole game)!  It's one of the most annoying things.  I put in 4 GPs so that I could use the extras for guerilla tactics.  You can make more VDs with TU, so extra GPs can be handy to buy you some time.  But yeah, maybe a 6th pendulum would be good too.

I think I'm going to go back to the 3-Precog version and see just how high a FGei I can get by auto-quiting games (Ferox, Dark Matter, Eternal Phoenix probably unless I get an awesome draw).

Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg274748#msg274748
« Reply #254 on: February 20, 2011, 07:39:24 pm »
I don't get what you mean by "guerilla"...

Offline Dragoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1551
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Dragoon hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWinner of Team PvP #5Winner of Rags to Riches - PvP Event
Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg274827#msg274827
« Reply #255 on: February 20, 2011, 09:02:00 pm »
Quote
Well, extra quanta happens very often while TUs are a matter of averaging "good" and "bad" draws:
You end up with -lets say- 4 of them by turn 5 just as often as you will hold 4 BBs, 4-5 towers, 3 supernovas, 2 dolls or 2 grav.pulls by then.
Naturally, having too much of one thing will always imply being kinda short on something else and each scenario is
 equally likely to happen.  ... which opens a whole range of guerilla tactics for those bad-draw scenarios. 

Concerning using more TUs than needed, I am pretty thrilled about this. Eversince I handed the guerilla strategy
guide to Shak'ar, the win rate has gone up notably. It's also a lot of fun having some more options to compensate
for odd draws on your or even the FGs side ... it reduces the somewhat dull "slot-maschine" effect Essence was
talking about by introducing some actual skill or strategy. 
That having said, popping that darn first Hermes-Destroyer with TU and an extra grav.pull and consequently either
dealing some dmg or drawing all those lances away from me has pretty much become my standard move when the draw permits it.


Quote
Here is another funky guerilla scenario I have sometimes:

The FGs damage is suddenly at 32 and you are bound to do something or die (26 HPs left).
Unfortunately, you only hold 2 measly BBs so far. Casting the doll now means the doll dies next turn if you
don't draw another BB right away. Your clogged hand holds: 3 TUs, 2 grav.pull, 2 BBs, 1 doll.
Looks like its Guerilla-time!
turn1 -> You spit in the face of the FG by casting doll + 2 BBs + 1TU, then you grav.pull doll1
turn2 -> (draw: no BB, sorry) your doll1 has 28HP left, you leave it to die and suck up that dmg
turn3 -> (draw: whatever) the god ramped up his dmg to 38, doll1 has bit the grass and dealt a total of 54dmg
to the god, you grav.pull doll2
turn4 -> (draw: BB, finally!) doll2 has 22HPs left, +BB = 42HPs
turn5 -> (draw: whatever) doll2 has 4HPs left, you TU it twice and kill the god: 76x2= 152+ 54doll1 = 206!

What you just did is converting a single TU into 60 life-saving HPs (doll1) to keep you afloat a couple more turns.
That gave you a chance to finally draw that damn 3rd BB over 3 turns.
If you had just stuck to your standard plan, you would have hit "quit" at turn2 because normally, TUing a doll
for low dmg is inacceptable: You just need to hit that magical 67dmg (2 TUs) or 50dmg (3 TUs) with your
doll alive to do it. This is especially the case if you don't have the aether-quanta to just "blow" a TU on this move.
The more standard version of this guerilla-move I use quite often is TUing a half-assed damaged doll (e.g.~45HP)
to preserve my doll while I hope for more BBs.
Quote
- TU is a great card! (aka guerilla tactics)
One scenario of a "bad draw" is getting like 4 TUs early on. Now if that is paired with your decent standard
2 towers you just got yourself some options other than only playing plan A.
With towers you can actually afford to use 1 or even 2 TUs for something other than your doll to get an early
game advantage.
I have copied kick-ass Lavadestroyers, Forestspectres, Lightdragons, Druids, Mutants ... anything that shaves
off an extra 15-30 dmg (depending on survivability).
Also keep in mind that you will often have an extra grav.pull hanging around: Your freshly cloned Lavadestroyer
just killed your one worry if you can make it long enough for your doll cast ...

- ChaosLord
Your only chance is to play this as a TU + stall deck ... good thing you have the quanta to do it.
.
Quote
As for more guerilla tactics, has anybody tried TUing an early blessed Light Dragon?  The damage adds up quickly.
Quote
My second favourite target right after Hermes's 1st Destroyer. I usually only do the two when
I have that 2nd grav.pull handy:
Miracle gets all snappish with the early damage again? ---> Pooof! ... goes the Dragon!
Quote
Also, the tower-version unlocks some further guerilla-tactics (advanced strategy) such as:
- Advanced meatshield: Need to buy time cause the draw is off and Miracle rushes the crap outa you? Two grav.pulls but hardly any BBs? Scorpions poison needs to be blocked but you are not quite ready for the combo yet?
-> play doll, BB (all), add grav.pull1 AND TU once -> you just bought yourself one bigass meatshield = time to wait for your optimal setup

- Straight TU: ChaosLord and Destiny suck arse?
-> forget about the dolls and play your deck as a straight TU-deck -> copy enemy-heavy hitters while playing all your BBs and grav.pulls defensively (mostly against druids, momentums, heavy hitters you just copied)

- Electric Shak'ar (Voodoo-Boogie) : Give up some deck-speed by adding 1/2 Elecs, then generously spend your aether-quants on anything that gets in your way ... poison? (bye), growth? (bye), mutation? (bye), momentum? (bye)

- wast'em if you got'em: Couple towers and 4 TUs in your opening hand but no doll, grav.pull, BBs in sight yet? After two turns you would rather quit then lose this the depressing way?
-> go meatshield (even with oppo-dragons if you got extra grav.pulls and no doll), TU heavyhitters/funky mutants just for the heck of it, copy (to be) poisoned unprotected dolls to build up some poison-dmg, get yourself an archangel to heal your slim doll, play extreme late-game heroics by copying a doll that barely took some dmg and get lucky by finally drawing that extra grav.pull, TU, BB ...
Quote
Quote
Anyone try TU'ing an early Fallen Elf and mutating those pesky elves before they mutate you?
I do it every time. Or I did before I put Electrocutor in.
Rarely works. It will buy you a turn or two. Maybe.
Quote
Quote
Anyone try TU'ing an early Fallen Elf and mutating those pesky elves before they mutate you?
I've beaten Chaos Lord once with that, and TU-ing some mutants I BB'ed afterwards, but it's a long shot. Personally I think that it's more profitable overall to just quit right away
Quote
I used to TU the druid and grav.pull the original, then proceed to "maybe win" the game.
Most recent tactic is to not even bother about the doll-plan at all and TU those über-mutants
 ChaosLord made for himself while BBing (or grav.pulling) the original right afterwards like Beef said.
If you don't care about improved mutation at all you get away with it oftentimes because the
new critter is rarely much worse than the one before and momentum will often (?) stay on it.
TUing the best mutants over and over again will yield a stronger critter with every TU you cast ...
Quote
Gemini is a huge pain for me. I lose huge percentage of fights against him. You REALLY need luck there.
Graviton is not THAT hard, you just need to get creative with TUs/BBs sometimes. If Oty is played on early spot, he'll likely Momentum it. If you TU it, you can gain control with it eating Chargers or Otys without Momentum. If Graviton starts with several Firemasters with Momentum, you might as well quit there.
Obliterator is easy. Essence posted a SS how to beat it. I usually play one Doll that will either be pulled by Obliterator (if its alone on the field and not delayed), or I pull it. Then I just TU his Momentumed creatures, and BB his copies. 2-3 Momentumed Shriekers or Dragons do all the work, Doll is there just to soak up anything without Momentum (and prevent Obliterator to pull Shrieker/Dragon)
Quote
Alternate strategy for Chaos Lord: if they get early Druids, then play the Dolls and wait for him to Mutate them. BB the remaining Druids and enemy mutants, then use PU on the strongest mutants on the field. Obviously, PU before BB on enemy mutants.
Quote
Yeah, Chaos Lord works much better to just let him mutate your dolls, and fight with mutants. With Gemini I strongly disrecommend TU-ing his momentumed creatures. You have to win with dolls or lose. There is no way you can out-TU Gemini. Just put up the combo ASAP and pray Gemini doesn't get too much momentum.
Jangoo suggests these tactics for the Tower version, but I find I have enough Aether Q to do it with the Pendulum version as well.

Quote
Quote
What about Octane?
Without aan anti-spell-shield he seems unbeatable.
Drop as many dolls down as soon as you can. Soak up as much damage. Often is a good choice to pull the doll without any BBs on because flying OEs will snipe it. Its important to get as much damage on the single doll and not waste TUs early.
Quote
Beauty of this deck is that it allows you early quits; as early as turn 2-3 against many gods.
Precog showing you several BHs, grav nymph, and Chargers in Dark Matter deck? Quit.
Ferox has creatures on the board that wont give you good split in damage received on the doll? Quit.
Precog showing Octane with 5 UGs, no Animates? Quit.
Destiny with early Duids? Quit.
Turn 1, Precog showing Gemini with momentums and Spiders? Quit.
Etc, etc.
Then there are your own draws too. Basically, in many situations you can save yourself tons of time by reading the situation well, and with experience this will become easier and easier.
Quote
"Normal" gods with just damage (easy, strategy-wise)

Divine Glory
Dream Catcher
Elidnis
Eternal Phoenix
Ferox
Fire Queen
Hermes
Incarnate
Miracle
Morte (poison does make it harder to win, but the strategy doesn't really change)
Neptune
Osiris (not enough momentum for it to be significant)
Paradox
Rainbow
Scorpio (same as Morte)
Seism (as with any deck, play one pillar at a time)

Some of these, such as Ferox, Miracle, Hermes, etc. have very fast damage output and can easily kill your voodoos. Not much you can do, other than TU'ing a doll right before it dies in hopes of drawing more TU's to win quickly.

Unique gods (different enough to require their own explanations)

Momentum:
Gemini
Graviton
Obliterator

If they don't get a lot of momentums out, play as normal and hope for the best. If you can spare BB's, use them on creatures with momentum.

If they get a lot of momentumed creatures, switch to a different tactic. TU whatever has momentum and the highest attack, then use BB's purely for CC. Toss down one voodoo with gravity pull and a single BB to delay their weapon and soak damage from anything without momentum, as well as return the damage against your opponent. Games can be won this way, but the chance is pretty low.

Mutation:
Chaos Lord
Destiny

For Chaos Lord, precognition is really your friend. Wait for him to use mutations on his own creatures before playing your voodoo. If he plays a druid, BB it. You need a lot more luck than is usually required for this deck, and if you see that his hand is full of druids/mutations, it's probably better to save time and quit.

Destiny has a lot less mutation and less quanta to use it. Speed is your best bet, so play as normal, but stop a druid with BB if you need to.

Dark Matter:
Much harder with the tower version than pendulum version. Don't play any supernovas until you have the entire combo in your hand; a doll, a gravity force, and a few basilisk bloods. Before then, just play as many pendulums as possible. If you use towers, you probably won't have enough entropy quanta. Once you have everything, cast a single supernova, cast more later when you need quanta. Your start will be slow, and if he gets a lot of chargers or nymphs early, quit.

Decay:
Quite the opposite of Dark Matter, play as many supernovas as you can as fast as possible. The exception is when you have a lot of everything except earth quanta. Then, save a supernova for when you draw more basilisk bloods so prevent him from draining it all earlier. Damage really depends on eclipse, and the longer the game drags on before he plays one, the more likely he'll drain everything, including aether for TU's. Luck here.

Octane:
Lots of Eagle's Eyes and animates = win. Lots of gases = lose. There isn't anything you can do; just hope that RNG is on your side.
Quote
Neptune   Easy.  Play Voodoo + GP, add BB's as they come.  Occasionally he plays 3-4 Abyss Crawlers in succession, so you may have to TU your doll early.

Hermes   If you get the combo out early you can win.  Sometimes I BB a built up Lava Destroyer to give my doll a breather for a few more turns.

Seism   I have a hard time with him.  He's harder than Obliterator for me - I can't get enough aether quantum to play enough TU's to pull it off.  Can still win if he doesn't play a lot of quicksands early.

Osiris  One of the easiest of the lot.  Since his creatures never do more than 3 damage to the doll, even a nearly dead doll at the end will still do another ~15 damage or so.

Octane   As has been stated, you're basically hoping he plays his weapons instead of his Gases.  Easy if he doesn't play more than one or two gases early on.

Dreamcatcher   Easy.  Save your SN's till you need them in case he plays one of his (rare) black holes.

Rainbow   Easy.  You have no permanents you care about, and his creature build up is slooow. 

Gemini   Hope he doesn't have a lot of early momentums.

DivineGlory   Easy.  Keep a BB back if you can afford it to freeze up the MG in the weapon slot.

Paradox   If you get your doll out early, it's easy.  He can build up damage fast if you're unlucky.  The AI is stupid and doesn't save its buffs for the Deja Vus, instead casting it on whatever.  Occasionally it gets lucky and realizes that Blessing + Twin Universe on an unsplit Deja Vu = Win.

Darkmatter   Auto-Quit.  I've beat him maybe once in 30 games before I just saved myself the hassle.  Black Hole + Gravity Nymph destroys you.

Destiny   I have a hard time with the mutate gods.  You can't even twin the good mutants because he will just rewind them!  Maybe someone has a better idea than me.

Firequeen   Get the combo out early and it's easy.  Wait too long and the bonds will prevent you from finishing her off.

Scorpio  Easy. 

Morte   Easy.

Incarnate Easy.  Sometimes you get unlucky and he plays a lot of pests + eclipse early.

Miracle Easy.  Make sure you have enough damage to kill him in one go.  You can get him to about 60-70 HP remaining before he thinks about playing Miracle.

Graviton:  Hope he plays an early momentum'd Oty - TU it, then eat a charger, then eat firemasters.  Otherwise, quit,.

Obliterator  Slightly different strategy.  TU his Momentumed creatures, then BB them.  It's important you wait for them to be Momementumed, or his shield will hurt you too much.  A doll plus GP will soak up any creatures he plays that aren't momentumed.  Also, he burrows his shriekers like an idiot.  Will GP a vanilla doll, so don't sweat not having one in your starting hand.

EternalPhoenix   You need a good draw, and hope he doesn't pop out too many ruby dragons.  Watch his aether quanta and assume that whenever he's going to hit 9 he'll play a fractal for another 4 or so phoenixes - that's 16 more damage; plan accordingly.

Decay  I auto-quit.  You CAN beat him if he plays eclipse early, but the problem is hoping to get enough aether quanta to play your TU's.  Not worth the guessing games (you won't know if you can win until turn 8 or so)

Chaos Lord:  Twin the good mutants, BB the druids, hope you get lucky.  No rewinds unlike Destiny, so playable.

Ferox:  Get your doll + lots of BB's out early.  If he plays 3+ bonds, you're probably toast.

Elidnis:  Like Ferox, but slower.  Gives you more wiggle room.
Quote
I wouldn't save up Supernovas for Dream Catcher, more often do I get quanta screwed by a 2nd turn Discord (lose coin toss, draw one pendulum) than by Black Holes.
Quote
1.  Play a protected doll immediately after the FG has played a weapon.  This will reflect petrify damage back on the weapon and save yourself from further damage and weapon effects.  This can be a game-changer against several gods.

2.  Use a hanging dangler to absorb plagues, virus effects, fire lances, thunderbolts, etc. to reflect them back on their FG.

3.  Use a hanging dangler if you are scrambling for options and there is a chance the FG has a gforce in their hand to start your combo.  This can be revealed to you, in particular, via precognition.  Be sure that the opponent does not have too much damage on the board, otherwise you are committing doll suicide.

4  It's sometimes necessary to play a defensive BB.  Examples include preventing early poison damage from physalia, controlling momentum damage from creatures, stopping fallen druids from mutating dolls, stopping gravity nymphs from spamming black hole, etc.

5.  Additionally, its sometimes necessary to burn a TU on an opposing creature, and then gforce it's copy or some other nasty creature.  Examples include abnormally large creatures from miracle, paradox, or TUing something without momentum to gforce a creature with momentum.

6.  A meat shield can be thrown out to help stall while attempting to draw more cards to setup your combo.  It's recommended that you have backups of each card unless you are trying to pull off some late game heroics.

7.  Make sure you calculate damage carefully on your gforce'd/BB'd doll and know when it is time to play your TU's.  If you are waiting on quanta but your doll will die, remember that you can always TU a TU'd doll later.

8.  #7 is generally a form of late game heroics, but know that not all is lost if you have TU'd a doll and still have enough HP to live another turn.  You may still draw a key card, including another BB, an extra gforce, a crucial TU, etc.
Quote
Detailed God-by-god breakdown:


Chaos Lord: Win 9.1%
You may want to play your doll + BB to petrify the weapon slot, although discord may actually help you in reallocating quanta if you can spare the damage.  Fallen druids and mutation are my nemesis.  I know there are ways to use it to your advantage, but I’m not very good at having that work out for me.
Dark Matter : Win 20%
Hope to draw a lot of pendulums early, and only play SN when you are ready to lay down doll + BB + BB + gforce.  You will need to play a defensive BB if DM plays a gravity nymph unless you have an electrocutor (which you probably won’t be able to or want to play against DM anyways).  Pray for the best.
Decay: Win 34.5%
Really just a race of your quanta against his pests.  Play everything as it comes, you can even get him to waste some life siphons on unprotected dolls, but you will usually end up waiting to see if he plays an eclipse before your quanta runs out so you can TU spam his damaging pests.
Destiny: Win 33.3%
You will have to play a defensive BB against fallen druids.  Straightforward otherwise.
Divine Glory: Win 52.4%
Hope to have the combo quickly and draw supernovas because he will explosion your lands, limiting the ability to play your TUs.  I generally don’t feel like I’m in the safe zone until I get 4 BB’s because his damage comes in 8’s, making 100 a much better number than 80.  Straightforward match, the only real trick is to try and BB an early doll in order to minimize damage while you build your combo.
Dream Catcher: Win 50%
One of the easier matchups because the damage just doesn't come quickly from DC and his butterfly effect doesn't have as big an impact as it does vs. other FG farming decks.  There is one tricky play you will have to watch out for.  Discord will mix your quanta up, meaning you will want to have played a SN; however, he has 2 black holes, which means you would want to have held onto your SN's.  I go ahead and just play them since he seems to generally play discord first.  Lock the discord down with a protected doll ASAP.
Elidnis: Win 40.9%
Straightforward battle here.  Beware of Elidnis' TU spam as you are trying to calculate damage against you.  Precogs can help you see this coming to some extent.
Eternal Pheonix: Win 23.5%
Damage comes faster than almost any other false god here so hope to draw your combo early and pray for as many BB’s as possible because damage is difficult to predict from EP.  Beware of Fire Lances dealing death blows.  One could argue that antimatter against Crimson Dragons can give a stall advantage in deck/combo building.
Ferox: Win 23.5%
Ferox is fast.  His speed is your biggest enemy.  Damage is fairly straightforward although a Jade Dragon or two might throw off your damage calculation.  Don’t be afraid of CC because he has none.
Fire Queen: Win 26.8%
Try and absorb damage with your gravity pull before his damage gets out of control.  Electrocutor is your best friend if you have one. One of the few battles where an early mirror shield can help you immensely in building your hand for the combo.  Again, try and petrify the weapon slot to prevent excess damage before you put your combo out.
Gemini: Win 19.4%
Defensive BBs and defensive gforces may be the only way you can manage a win if his momentum gets rolling, literally.  That being said, put your doll out there sooner rather than later because much of his damage will bypass your gforce anyways.
Graviton: Win 24.4%
Damage comes quickly and is primarily unstoppable.  Play your doll and grav force early, oftentimes before its ready because you will need to soak up as much damage as possible before momentum kills you.  Similar tactic as Gemini, but harder.  Unlikely victory here.
Hermes: Win 14.8%
Damage can come from Hermes faster than almost any other god due to cheap growing creatures so you will have to move quickly.  Calculating damage against yourself or your doll is a little easier than some of the other rush gods as growing creatures.  Once again, beware of fire lances dealing unexpected death blows.
Incarnate: Win 39.4%
Go for vampires with your electrocutor if you have one.  There are two things, to me, that are difficult when facing Incarnate:  1.  Vampire damage has recently been updated so it leeches off gravity pull, meaning you will have to put more damage on your doll before winning  2.  Retrovirus/Boneyard combination can make calculating your damage a bit tricky as 3 damage splits into several 4’s with eclipse/boneyard on the board so just beware of your surroundings.  That being said, it’s a fairly easy match to win if you draw the combo.
Miracle: Win 32.3%
Straightforward battle except keep in mind that damage can either come modestly or at a speed that is impossible to build against.  Antimatter can be good here or even consider burning an early TU or TU+Grav Force to counter huge creatures.  Late game heroics are not possible due to his miracles, so be sure to finish him off with your combo.
Morte: Win 24.1%
If you try and move too quickly, bone dragons can spoil your day.  If you try and stall for more cards, poison can spoil your day.  Its ok to play several hanging danglers if you want extra damage on Morte.
Neptune: Win 57.9%
Fairly straightforward battle here.  Damage probably comes least quickly with Neptune than vs. any other false god.  I pray that I would get to fight Neptune every time, but I prefer winning over a challenge.  Don’t be afraid to play TU + gravity force on an arctic dragon if an early one comes and you have the extra quanta/gravity force while you wait for a doll or more BB.  You can let your hp run fairly low against Neptune, but I would caution a little against shockwaves.  Try and play an extra doll to draw these out for extra damage if you have the means.
Obliterator: Win 22.6%
You can play a hanging dangler if you need a gforce!  Ok, I just wanted to say hanging dangler, but its true.  One can make a strong argument for a deck with antimatter vs. Obliterator and you may even consider playing a defensive BB.  Similar to Gemini/Graviton in strategy.
Octane: Win 21.4%
This one is a fast race to the finish line.  You’ve kinda gotta play this one by feel, but generally put your dolls on the board asap, because every little damage you can put back on octane counts.  Ideally, you want Octane playing few UG’s with his weapon slot frozen and a board with 2-4 owl’s eyes.  Hard to win.
Osiris: Win 42.2%
Another battle where an early mirror shield could hypothetically help, although damage usually spins out of control quickly.  More worrisome to me are the trebouchets.  I recommend starting your gravity force combo early >50 hp if you have the cards to do so because of trebs and momentum.
Paradox: Win 51.9%
Straightforward match except damage comes quickly and is REALLY unpredictable in calculating due to déjà vu splits, blessings, and TU spam.  It seems like every time you have a nice comfortable BB cushion on your doll with gravity force applied, Paradox senses it, spams about 4 or 5 TUs on a giant furball, and squashes your hopes and dreams of winning.
Rainbow: Win 35.3%
Watch for his hourglasses to speed up the match and damage so be careful with your calculation.  Try and build your hand as stout as possible before going.  You definitely want to play an early doll and try to BB his owl’s eye if you can to prolong things.  If you are in desperate need of a gravity force you can try and entice him to play his on your doll.  Precog can help you see this coming.
Scorpio: Win 12.1%
Generally his poison degen gets going too quickly for you to get organized, but I'd imagine this win percentage is a little low.  Get your doll out early because he doesn't have alot of physical damage and you will die too soon if you don't start working down your doll's hp early
Siesm: Win 33.3%
Try and play your lands one by one due to explosion, or double stack when they are giving aether quanta.  Damage calculation is a bit unpredictable due to dragons and shriekers so err on the side of extra BB’s.All Win percentages are generalized to the case of all four variants so should be considered carefully as such.  Please refer to individual variants for more specific information.

Special thanks to Jangoo for creating the Shakar deck and Fgei!
Maybe Jangoo can take this info, make it pretty, and put it in the OP.

Offline Doichimaru

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • Doichimaru is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • Reborn
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg274888#msg274888
« Reply #256 on: February 20, 2011, 09:53:32 pm »
I tried another variation the past couple days to see how it compared to the 3-Precog version.  The thought was to increase the combo cards so they go off more consistently plus give more guerrilla-tactics options.  But it comes out about the same.

Code: [Select]
6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 74d 74d 74d 74d 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 7tg 7tg 7tg 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b      

33% win rate; 32.90% normalized (23 gods played)
I had a nice card win rate, much better than Doichimaru's.
If you extrapolate my TimeTW from my minuscule 7 timed-games recorded and attribute equal time to losses+miscellanea, then 100 games took 3.8 hours.  With that I have a FGei of 4165.5 or about 3.5 cards per hour.







After I played 100 games, I decided to do some combo calculations to see if this deck had better statistical odds to draw the combo.  I think the 3-Precog version wins out overall.  You can see my table here (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AvzXeWJKVKrsdFpDeUE2SGcxZFBxRl9RX3FDTlJRZ2c&hl=en&authkey=CIvnpoEB).  Of course, this is assuming you can always play a Precog when you draw it (which I realize is not always the case).
Well, I find this data much more useful than mine. Kudos Dragoon!
1) You can't spell "slaughter" without "laughter."
2) Marisa in a nutshell.
3) These moderators... Yare yare, dono yo ni yakkaina! Zomgwtfbbq

Offline JangooTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 877
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Jangoo hides under a Cloak.
  • New to You
Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg275440#msg275440
« Reply #257 on: February 21, 2011, 04:55:13 pm »

Quote
Well, extra quanta happens very often while TUs are a matter of averaging "good" and "bad" draws:
You end up with -lets say- 4 of them by turn 5 just as often as you will hold 4 BBs, 4-5 towers, 3 supernovas, 2 dolls or 2 grav.pulls by then.
Naturally, having too much of one thing will always imply being kinda short on something else and each scenario is
 equally likely to happen.  ... which opens a whole range of guerilla tactics for those bad-draw scenarios. 

Concerning using more TUs than needed, I am pretty thrilled about this. Eversince I handed the guerilla strategy
guide to Shak'ar, the win rate has gone up notably. It's also a lot of fun having some more options to compensate
for odd draws on your or even the FGs side ... it reduces the somewhat dull "slot-maschine" effect Essence was
talking about by introducing some actual skill or strategy. 
That having said, popping that darn first Hermes-Destroyer with TU and an extra grav.pull and consequently either
dealing some dmg or drawing all those lances away from me has pretty much become my standard move when the draw permits it.


Quote
Here is another funky guerilla scenario I have sometimes:

The FGs damage is suddenly at 32 and you are bound to do something or die (26 HPs left).
Unfortunately, you only hold 2 measly BBs so far. Casting the doll now means the doll dies next turn if you
don't draw another BB right away. Your clogged hand holds: 3 TUs, 2 grav.pull, 2 BBs, 1 doll.
Looks like its Guerilla-time!
turn1 -> You spit in the face of the FG by casting doll + 2 BBs + 1TU, then you grav.pull doll1
turn2 -> (draw: no BB, sorry) your doll1 has 28HP left, you leave it to die and suck up that dmg
turn3 -> (draw: whatever) the god ramped up his dmg to 38, doll1 has bit the grass and dealt a total of 54dmg
to the god, you grav.pull doll2
turn4 -> (draw: BB, finally!) doll2 has 22HPs left, +BB = 42HPs
turn5 -> (draw: whatever) doll2 has 4HPs left, you TU it twice and kill the god: 76x2= 152+ 54doll1 = 206!

What you just did is converting a single TU into 60 life-saving HPs (doll1) to keep you afloat a couple more turns.
That gave you a chance to finally draw that damn 3rd BB over 3 turns.
If you had just stuck to your standard plan, you would have hit "quit" at turn2 because normally, TUing a doll
for low dmg is inacceptable: You just need to hit that magical 67dmg (2 TUs) or 50dmg (3 TUs) with your
doll alive to do it. This is especially the case if you don't have the aether-quanta to just "blow" a TU on this move.
The more standard version of this guerilla-move I use quite often is TUing a half-assed damaged doll (e.g.~45HP)
to preserve my doll while I hope for more BBs.
Quote
- TU is a great card! (aka guerilla tactics)
One scenario of a "bad draw" is getting like 4 TUs early on. Now if that is paired with your decent standard
2 towers you just got yourself some options other than only playing plan A.
With towers you can actually afford to use 1 or even 2 TUs for something other than your doll to get an early
game advantage.
I have copied kick-ass Lavadestroyers, Forestspectres, Lightdragons, Druids, Mutants ... anything that shaves
off an extra 15-30 dmg (depending on survivability).
Also keep in mind that you will often have an extra grav.pull hanging around: Your freshly cloned Lavadestroyer
just killed your one worry if you can make it long enough for your doll cast ...

- ChaosLord
Your only chance is to play this as a TU + stall deck ... good thing you have the quanta to do it.
.
Quote
As for more guerilla tactics, has anybody tried TUing an early blessed Light Dragon?  The damage adds up quickly.
Quote
My second favourite target right after Hermes's 1st Destroyer. I usually only do the two when
I have that 2nd grav.pull handy:
Miracle gets all snappish with the early damage again? ---> Pooof! ... goes the Dragon!
Quote
Also, the tower-version unlocks some further guerilla-tactics (advanced strategy) such as:
- Advanced meatshield: Need to buy time cause the draw is off and Miracle rushes the crap outa you? Two grav.pulls but hardly any BBs? Scorpions poison needs to be blocked but you are not quite ready for the combo yet?
-> play doll, BB (all), add grav.pull1 AND TU once -> you just bought yourself one bigass meatshield = time to wait for your optimal setup

- Straight TU: ChaosLord and Destiny suck arse?
-> forget about the dolls and play your deck as a straight TU-deck -> copy enemy-heavy hitters while playing all your BBs and grav.pulls defensively (mostly against druids, momentums, heavy hitters you just copied)

- Electric Shak'ar (Voodoo-Boogie) : Give up some deck-speed by adding 1/2 Elecs, then generously spend your aether-quants on anything that gets in your way ... poison? (bye), growth? (bye), mutation? (bye), momentum? (bye)

- wast'em if you got'em: Couple towers and 4 TUs in your opening hand but no doll, grav.pull, BBs in sight yet? After two turns you would rather quit then lose this the depressing way?
-> go meatshield (even with oppo-dragons if you got extra grav.pulls and no doll), TU heavyhitters/funky mutants just for the heck of it, copy (to be) poisoned unprotected dolls to build up some poison-dmg, get yourself an archangel to heal your slim doll, play extreme late-game heroics by copying a doll that barely took some dmg and get lucky by finally drawing that extra grav.pull, TU, BB ...
Quote
Quote
Anyone try TU'ing an early Fallen Elf and mutating those pesky elves before they mutate you?
I do it every time. Or I did before I put Electrocutor in.
Rarely works. It will buy you a turn or two. Maybe.
Quote
Quote
Anyone try TU'ing an early Fallen Elf and mutating those pesky elves before they mutate you?
I've beaten Chaos Lord once with that, and TU-ing some mutants I BB'ed afterwards, but it's a long shot. Personally I think that it's more profitable overall to just quit right away
Quote
I used to TU the druid and grav.pull the original, then proceed to "maybe win" the game.
Most recent tactic is to not even bother about the doll-plan at all and TU those über-mutants
 ChaosLord made for himself while BBing (or grav.pulling) the original right afterwards like Beef said.
If you don't care about improved mutation at all you get away with it oftentimes because the
new critter is rarely much worse than the one before and momentum will often (?) stay on it.
TUing the best mutants over and over again will yield a stronger critter with every TU you cast ...
Quote
Gemini is a huge pain for me. I lose huge percentage of fights against him. You REALLY need luck there.
Graviton is not THAT hard, you just need to get creative with TUs/BBs sometimes. If Oty is played on early spot, he'll likely Momentum it. If you TU it, you can gain control with it eating Chargers or Otys without Momentum. If Graviton starts with several Firemasters with Momentum, you might as well quit there.
Obliterator is easy. Essence posted a SS how to beat it. I usually play one Doll that will either be pulled by Obliterator (if its alone on the field and not delayed), or I pull it. Then I just TU his Momentumed creatures, and BB his copies. 2-3 Momentumed Shriekers or Dragons do all the work, Doll is there just to soak up anything without Momentum (and prevent Obliterator to pull Shrieker/Dragon)
Quote
Alternate strategy for Chaos Lord: if they get early Druids, then play the Dolls and wait for him to Mutate them. BB the remaining Druids and enemy mutants, then use PU on the strongest mutants on the field. Obviously, PU before BB on enemy mutants.
Quote
Yeah, Chaos Lord works much better to just let him mutate your dolls, and fight with mutants. With Gemini I strongly disrecommend TU-ing his momentumed creatures. You have to win with dolls or lose. There is no way you can out-TU Gemini. Just put up the combo ASAP and pray Gemini doesn't get too much momentum.
Jangoo suggests these tactics for the Tower version, but I find I have enough Aether Q to do it with the Pendulum version as well.

Quote
Quote
What about Octane?
Without aan anti-spell-shield he seems unbeatable.
Drop as many dolls down as soon as you can. Soak up as much damage. Often is a good choice to pull the doll without any BBs on because flying OEs will snipe it. Its important to get as much damage on the single doll and not waste TUs early.
Quote
Beauty of this deck is that it allows you early quits; as early as turn 2-3 against many gods.
Precog showing you several BHs, grav nymph, and Chargers in Dark Matter deck? Quit.
Ferox has creatures on the board that wont give you good split in damage received on the doll? Quit.
Precog showing Octane with 5 UGs, no Animates? Quit.
Destiny with early Duids? Quit.
Turn 1, Precog showing Gemini with momentums and Spiders? Quit.
Etc, etc.
Then there are your own draws too. Basically, in many situations you can save yourself tons of time by reading the situation well, and with experience this will become easier and easier.
Quote
"Normal" gods with just damage (easy, strategy-wise)

Divine Glory
Dream Catcher
Elidnis
Eternal Phoenix
Ferox
Fire Queen
Hermes
Incarnate
Miracle
Morte (poison does make it harder to win, but the strategy doesn't really change)
Neptune
Osiris (not enough momentum for it to be significant)
Paradox
Rainbow
Scorpio (same as Morte)
Seism (as with any deck, play one pillar at a time)

Some of these, such as Ferox, Miracle, Hermes, etc. have very fast damage output and can easily kill your voodoos. Not much you can do, other than TU'ing a doll right before it dies in hopes of drawing more TU's to win quickly.

Unique gods (different enough to require their own explanations)

Momentum:
Gemini
Graviton
Obliterator

If they don't get a lot of momentums out, play as normal and hope for the best. If you can spare BB's, use them on creatures with momentum.

If they get a lot of momentumed creatures, switch to a different tactic. TU whatever has momentum and the highest attack, then use BB's purely for CC. Toss down one voodoo with gravity pull and a single BB to delay their weapon and soak damage from anything without momentum, as well as return the damage against your opponent. Games can be won this way, but the chance is pretty low.

Mutation:
Chaos Lord
Destiny

For Chaos Lord, precognition is really your friend. Wait for him to use mutations on his own creatures before playing your voodoo. If he plays a druid, BB it. You need a lot more luck than is usually required for this deck, and if you see that his hand is full of druids/mutations, it's probably better to save time and quit.

Destiny has a lot less mutation and less quanta to use it. Speed is your best bet, so play as normal, but stop a druid with BB if you need to.

Dark Matter:
Much harder with the tower version than pendulum version. Don't play any supernovas until you have the entire combo in your hand; a doll, a gravity force, and a few basilisk bloods. Before then, just play as many pendulums as possible. If you use towers, you probably won't have enough entropy quanta. Once you have everything, cast a single supernova, cast more later when you need quanta. Your start will be slow, and if he gets a lot of chargers or nymphs early, quit.

Decay:
Quite the opposite of Dark Matter, play as many supernovas as you can as fast as possible. The exception is when you have a lot of everything except earth quanta. Then, save a supernova for when you draw more basilisk bloods so prevent him from draining it all earlier. Damage really depends on eclipse, and the longer the game drags on before he plays one, the more likely he'll drain everything, including aether for TU's. Luck here.

Octane:
Lots of Eagle's Eyes and animates = win. Lots of gases = lose. There isn't anything you can do; just hope that RNG is on your side.
Quote
Neptune   Easy.  Play Voodoo + GP, add BB's as they come.  Occasionally he plays 3-4 Abyss Crawlers in succession, so you may have to TU your doll early.

Hermes   If you get the combo out early you can win.  Sometimes I BB a built up Lava Destroyer to give my doll a breather for a few more turns.

Seism   I have a hard time with him.  He's harder than Obliterator for me - I can't get enough aether quantum to play enough TU's to pull it off.  Can still win if he doesn't play a lot of quicksands early.

Osiris  One of the easiest of the lot.  Since his creatures never do more than 3 damage to the doll, even a nearly dead doll at the end will still do another ~15 damage or so.

Octane   As has been stated, you're basically hoping he plays his weapons instead of his Gases.  Easy if he doesn't play more than one or two gases early on.

Dreamcatcher   Easy.  Save your SN's till you need them in case he plays one of his (rare) black holes.

Rainbow   Easy.  You have no permanents you care about, and his creature build up is slooow. 

Gemini   Hope he doesn't have a lot of early momentums.

DivineGlory   Easy.  Keep a BB back if you can afford it to freeze up the MG in the weapon slot.

Paradox   If you get your doll out early, it's easy.  He can build up damage fast if you're unlucky.  The AI is stupid and doesn't save its buffs for the Deja Vus, instead casting it on whatever.  Occasionally it gets lucky and realizes that Blessing + Twin Universe on an unsplit Deja Vu = Win.

Darkmatter   Auto-Quit.  I've beat him maybe once in 30 games before I just saved myself the hassle.  Black Hole + Gravity Nymph destroys you.

Destiny   I have a hard time with the mutate gods.  You can't even twin the good mutants because he will just rewind them!  Maybe someone has a better idea than me.

Firequeen   Get the combo out early and it's easy.  Wait too long and the bonds will prevent you from finishing her off.

Scorpio  Easy. 

Morte   Easy.

Incarnate Easy.  Sometimes you get unlucky and he plays a lot of pests + eclipse early.

Miracle Easy.  Make sure you have enough damage to kill him in one go.  You can get him to about 60-70 HP remaining before he thinks about playing Miracle.

Graviton:  Hope he plays an early momentum'd Oty - TU it, then eat a charger, then eat firemasters.  Otherwise, quit,.

Obliterator  Slightly different strategy.  TU his Momentumed creatures, then BB them.  It's important you wait for them to be Momementumed, or his shield will hurt you too much.  A doll plus GP will soak up any creatures he plays that aren't momentumed.  Also, he burrows his shriekers like an idiot.  Will GP a vanilla doll, so don't sweat not having one in your starting hand.

EternalPhoenix   You need a good draw, and hope he doesn't pop out too many ruby dragons.  Watch his aether quanta and assume that whenever he's going to hit 9 he'll play a fractal for another 4 or so phoenixes - that's 16 more damage; plan accordingly.

Decay  I auto-quit.  You CAN beat him if he plays eclipse early, but the problem is hoping to get enough aether quanta to play your TU's.  Not worth the guessing games (you won't know if you can win until turn 8 or so)

Chaos Lord:  Twin the good mutants, BB the druids, hope you get lucky.  No rewinds unlike Destiny, so playable.

Ferox:  Get your doll + lots of BB's out early.  If he plays 3+ bonds, you're probably toast.

Elidnis:  Like Ferox, but slower.  Gives you more wiggle room.
Quote
I wouldn't save up Supernovas for Dream Catcher, more often do I get quanta screwed by a 2nd turn Discord (lose coin toss, draw one pendulum) than by Black Holes.
Quote
1.  Play a protected doll immediately after the FG has played a weapon.  This will reflect petrify damage back on the weapon and save yourself from further damage and weapon effects.  This can be a game-changer against several gods.

2.  Use a hanging dangler to absorb plagues, virus effects, fire lances, thunderbolts, etc. to reflect them back on their FG.

3.  Use a hanging dangler if you are scrambling for options and there is a chance the FG has a gforce in their hand to start your combo.  This can be revealed to you, in particular, via precognition.  Be sure that the opponent does not have too much damage on the board, otherwise you are committing doll suicide.

4  It's sometimes necessary to play a defensive BB.  Examples include preventing early poison damage from physalia, controlling momentum damage from creatures, stopping fallen druids from mutating dolls, stopping gravity nymphs from spamming black hole, etc.

5.  Additionally, its sometimes necessary to burn a TU on an opposing creature, and then gforce it's copy or some other nasty creature.  Examples include abnormally large creatures from miracle, paradox, or TUing something without momentum to gforce a creature with momentum.

6.  A meat shield can be thrown out to help stall while attempting to draw more cards to setup your combo.  It's recommended that you have backups of each card unless you are trying to pull off some late game heroics.

7.  Make sure you calculate damage carefully on your gforce'd/BB'd doll and know when it is time to play your TU's.  If you are waiting on quanta but your doll will die, remember that you can always TU a TU'd doll later.

8.  #7 is generally a form of late game heroics, but know that not all is lost if you have TU'd a doll and still have enough HP to live another turn.  You may still draw a key card, including another BB, an extra gforce, a crucial TU, etc.
Quote
Detailed God-by-god breakdown:


Chaos Lord: Win 9.1%
You may want to play your doll + BB to petrify the weapon slot, although discord may actually help you in reallocating quanta if you can spare the damage.  Fallen druids and mutation are my nemesis.  I know there are ways to use it to your advantage, but I’m not very good at having that work out for me.
Dark Matter : Win 20%
Hope to draw a lot of pendulums early, and only play SN when you are ready to lay down doll + BB + BB + gforce.  You will need to play a defensive BB if DM plays a gravity nymph unless you have an electrocutor (which you probably won’t be able to or want to play against DM anyways).  Pray for the best.
Decay: Win 34.5%
Really just a race of your quanta against his pests.  Play everything as it comes, you can even get him to waste some life siphons on unprotected dolls, but you will usually end up waiting to see if he plays an eclipse before your quanta runs out so you can TU spam his damaging pests.
Destiny: Win 33.3%
You will have to play a defensive BB against fallen druids.  Straightforward otherwise.
Divine Glory: Win 52.4%
Hope to have the combo quickly and draw supernovas because he will explosion your lands, limiting the ability to play your TUs.  I generally don’t feel like I’m in the safe zone until I get 4 BB’s because his damage comes in 8’s, making 100 a much better number than 80.  Straightforward match, the only real trick is to try and BB an early doll in order to minimize damage while you build your combo.
Dream Catcher: Win 50%
One of the easier matchups because the damage just doesn't come quickly from DC and his butterfly effect doesn't have as big an impact as it does vs. other FG farming decks.  There is one tricky play you will have to watch out for.  Discord will mix your quanta up, meaning you will want to have played a SN; however, he has 2 black holes, which means you would want to have held onto your SN's.  I go ahead and just play them since he seems to generally play discord first.  Lock the discord down with a protected doll ASAP.
Elidnis: Win 40.9%
Straightforward battle here.  Beware of Elidnis' TU spam as you are trying to calculate damage against you.  Precogs can help you see this coming to some extent.
Eternal Pheonix: Win 23.5%
Damage comes faster than almost any other false god here so hope to draw your combo early and pray for as many BB’s as possible because damage is difficult to predict from EP.  Beware of Fire Lances dealing death blows.  One could argue that antimatter against Crimson Dragons can give a stall advantage in deck/combo building.
Ferox: Win 23.5%
Ferox is fast.  His speed is your biggest enemy.  Damage is fairly straightforward although a Jade Dragon or two might throw off your damage calculation.  Don’t be afraid of CC because he has none.
Fire Queen: Win 26.8%
Try and absorb damage with your gravity pull before his damage gets out of control.  Electrocutor is your best friend if you have one. One of the few battles where an early mirror shield can help you immensely in building your hand for the combo.  Again, try and petrify the weapon slot to prevent excess damage before you put your combo out.
Gemini: Win 19.4%
Defensive BBs and defensive gforces may be the only way you can manage a win if his momentum gets rolling, literally.  That being said, put your doll out there sooner rather than later because much of his damage will bypass your gforce anyways.
Graviton: Win 24.4%
Damage comes quickly and is primarily unstoppable.  Play your doll and grav force early, oftentimes before its ready because you will need to soak up as much damage as possible before momentum kills you.  Similar tactic as Gemini, but harder.  Unlikely victory here.
Hermes: Win 14.8%
Damage can come from Hermes faster than almost any other god due to cheap growing creatures so you will have to move quickly.  Calculating damage against yourself or your doll is a little easier than some of the other rush gods as growing creatures.  Once again, beware of fire lances dealing unexpected death blows.
Incarnate: Win 39.4%
Go for vampires with your electrocutor if you have one.  There are two things, to me, that are difficult when facing Incarnate:  1.  Vampire damage has recently been updated so it leeches off gravity pull, meaning you will have to put more damage on your doll before winning  2.  Retrovirus/Boneyard combination can make calculating your damage a bit tricky as 3 damage splits into several 4’s with eclipse/boneyard on the board so just beware of your surroundings.  That being said, it’s a fairly easy match to win if you draw the combo.
Miracle: Win 32.3%
Straightforward battle except keep in mind that damage can either come modestly or at a speed that is impossible to build against.  Antimatter can be good here or even consider burning an early TU or TU+Grav Force to counter huge creatures.  Late game heroics are not possible due to his miracles, so be sure to finish him off with your combo.
Morte: Win 24.1%
If you try and move too quickly, bone dragons can spoil your day.  If you try and stall for more cards, poison can spoil your day.  Its ok to play several hanging danglers if you want extra damage on Morte.
Neptune: Win 57.9%
Fairly straightforward battle here.  Damage probably comes least quickly with Neptune than vs. any other false god.  I pray that I would get to fight Neptune every time, but I prefer winning over a challenge.  Don’t be afraid to play TU + gravity force on an arctic dragon if an early one comes and you have the extra quanta/gravity force while you wait for a doll or more BB.  You can let your hp run fairly low against Neptune, but I would caution a little against shockwaves.  Try and play an extra doll to draw these out for extra damage if you have the means.
Obliterator: Win 22.6%
You can play a hanging dangler if you need a gforce!  Ok, I just wanted to say hanging dangler, but its true.  One can make a strong argument for a deck with antimatter vs. Obliterator and you may even consider playing a defensive BB.  Similar to Gemini/Graviton in strategy.
Octane: Win 21.4%
This one is a fast race to the finish line.  You’ve kinda gotta play this one by feel, but generally put your dolls on the board asap, because every little damage you can put back on octane counts.  Ideally, you want Octane playing few UG’s with his weapon slot frozen and a board with 2-4 owl’s eyes.  Hard to win.
Osiris: Win 42.2%
Another battle where an early mirror shield could hypothetically help, although damage usually spins out of control quickly.  More worrisome to me are the trebouchets.  I recommend starting your gravity force combo early >50 hp if you have the cards to do so because of trebs and momentum.
Paradox: Win 51.9%
Straightforward match except damage comes quickly and is REALLY unpredictable in calculating due to déjà vu splits, blessings, and TU spam.  It seems like every time you have a nice comfortable BB cushion on your doll with gravity force applied, Paradox senses it, spams about 4 or 5 TUs on a giant furball, and squashes your hopes and dreams of winning.
Rainbow: Win 35.3%
Watch for his hourglasses to speed up the match and damage so be careful with your calculation.  Try and build your hand as stout as possible before going.  You definitely want to play an early doll and try to BB his owl’s eye if you can to prolong things.  If you are in desperate need of a gravity force you can try and entice him to play his on your doll.  Precog can help you see this coming.
Scorpio: Win 12.1%
Generally his poison degen gets going too quickly for you to get organized, but I'd imagine this win percentage is a little low.  Get your doll out early because he doesn't have alot of physical damage and you will die too soon if you don't start working down your doll's hp early
Siesm: Win 33.3%
Try and play your lands one by one due to explosion, or double stack when they are giving aether quanta.  Damage calculation is a bit unpredictable due to dragons and shriekers so err on the side of extra BB’s.All Win percentages are generalized to the case of all four variants so should be considered carefully as such.  Please refer to individual variants for more specific information.

Special thanks to Jangoo for creating the Shakar deck and Fgei!
Maybe Jangoo can take this info, make it pretty, and put it in the OP.
Lol Dragoon ... Imagine the look on my face when your 4-line-post turned into "Dragoons comprehensive compilation of advanced- and guerilla tactics for the Shak'ar deck" after popping open the 2nd spoiler ... Did you go over every possible post to find all these?

What do you suggest for "making it pretty"? I must admit am kind of lost for ideas ...


Concerning those 100 games you played: Is there any stat I could actually use for the OP?



Offline Dragoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1551
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Dragoon hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWinner of Team PvP #5Winner of Rags to Riches - PvP Event
Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg276282#msg276282
« Reply #258 on: February 22, 2011, 03:07:23 pm »
Sorry it took a while to respond.  I was trying to pretty up the info for ya.   ;)  And yes I went through every post.

As for my games, you could use the win rate, normalized win rate, card win rate, and average electrum per game stats if you want.  Using the FGei may not be quite fair since it's a small sampling.  Hopefully in the future I'll give you something with more recorded times.

STRATEGY COMPILATION

Basic Concepts
  • Play Pendulums/Towers and Supernovas to gain quanta.
  • Play VD and GF to redirect damage to Doll.  This buys you time and hurts the FG.
  • Use BB on your VD to lengthen his life and freeze the FG's weapon.
  • Once your VD is low on HP, use TU to multiply the damage done on that VD's HP to the FG's HP.
General Strategies
  • In general, wait to start your combo as long as possible.  Once you GF your doll, there's no turning back so make sure you have as many of the cards you need to pull a win as possible.
  • In general, you need a minimum combination of 3 BBs and 2 TUs or 2 BBs and 3 TUs plus the VD and GF.
  • Play your VD and BB ASAP if the FG plays a weapon.  Also, always hold on to 1 BB if your VD doesn't need it to live.  Use it to (re)freeze the FG's weapon.
  • Play an early VD without BB to draw out CC spells (Lances, Plagues, etc.).  Do not use this tactic against FGs with Rewind.  Wait to play the GF until you're ready to start the combo.
  • Keep track of the damage potential of the FG's next turn.  It's not enough to add up the damage on the field.  You must know what kind of creatures he might draw and see if he has enough quanta to play those creatures.  To be safe, always assume he'll do the maximum damage.  However, there are times where you have to just hope he doesn't play x creature because it's the only way you can win due to the circumstances.
  • If your VD might/will die next turn but you don't have enough TUs to win, go ahead and TU the VD once to save a copy of the damage already accumulated on that VD.  Drawing more BBs, TUs, or even another GF might win you the game in the subsequent turns.  Also, go ahead and use any of your BBs on that VD that's going to die anyways before you TU.  You'll do maximum damage with the first VD and you'll have the extra HP for the second VD in case you draw another GF.
 
Advance Techniques (aka Guerilla Tactics)
  • If you're taking too much damage too quickly and you need to buy yourself some time, play your VD, all your BBs, a GF, then TU it.  By doing this,  you create a massive meatshield while you buy yourself more time to draw the needed cards to win.  A second GF in hand is recommend before attempting this.
    The FGs damage is suddenly at 32 and you are bound to do something or die (26 HPs left).
    Unfortunately, you only hold 2 measly BBs so far. Casting the VD now means the VD dies next turn if you
    don't draw another BB right away. Your clogged hand holds: 3 TUs, 2 GFs, 2 BBs, 1 VD.
    Looks like its Guerilla-time!
    turn1 -> You spit in the face of the FG by casting VD + 2 BBs + 1 TU, then you GF VD1.
    turn2 -> (draw: no BB, sorry) your VD1 has 28HP left, you leave it to die and suck up that damage.
    turn3 -> (draw: whatever) the FG ramped up his dmg to 38, VD1 has bit the grass and dealt a total of 54dmg
    to the FG, you GF VD2.
    turn4 -> (draw: BB, finally!) VD2 has 22 HP left, + 1 BB = 42HP
    turn5 -> (draw: whatever) VD2 has 4 HP left, you TU it twice and kill the god: 76 x 2 = 152 + 54 (VD1) = 206!

    What you just did is converting a single TU into 60 life-saving HPs (VD1) to keep you afloat a couple more turns.
    That gave you a chance to finally draw that damn 3rd BB over 3 turns.
    If you had just stuck to your standard plan, you would have hit "quit" at turn 2 because normally, TUing a doll
    for low damage is inacceptable: you just need to hit that magical 67 damage (2 TUs) or 50 damage (3 TUs) with your
    VD alive to do it. This is especially the case if you don't have the aether quanta to just "blow" a TU on this move.
    The more standard version of this guerilla-move I use quite often is TUing a half-assed damaged doll (e.g.~45HP)
    to preserve my doll while I hope for more BBs.
  • It's sometimes necessary to play a defensive BB.  Examples include controlling momentum damage from creatures, stopping Fallen Druids from mutating, stopping Gravity Nymphs from spamming Black Hole, etc.
  • Additionally, it's sometimes necessary to burn a TU on an opposing creature, and then GF it's copy or some other nasty creature.  Examples include abnormally large creatures from miracle, paradox, or TUing something without momentum to GF a creature with momentum.
  • Against some FGs, it's recommended to play the deck as a TU deck and use BB and GF as CC.  Use GFs first, especially when you can TU a creature that has enough attack to knock out a creature with 1 hit.  Alternately, you can use GFs on your VDs to stop a little damage, buying you a turn or two.
  • In some situations you can use any extra quanta and TUs on enemy uber-creatures to shave off some HP off the FG.
    One scenario of a "bad draw" is getting like 4 TUs early on. Now if that is paired with your decent standard
    2 towers you just got yourself some options other than only playing plan A.
    With towers you can actually afford to use 1 or even 2 TUs for something other than your doll to get an early
    game advantage.
    I have copied kick-ass Lavadestroyers, Forestspectres, Lightdragons, Druids, Mutants ... anything that shaves
    off an extra 15-30 damage (depending on survivability).
    Also keep in mind that you will often have an extra GF hanging around: Your freshly cloned Lava Destroyer
    just killed your one worry if you can make it long enough for your VD cast ...
FG by FG Breakdown

Play your deck as a TU + stall deck.  TU his largest mutant and then use your CC to control his field (Druids, Demons, and other nasties).  TUing the best mutant makes for better mutants.  Also consider TUing creatures whose ability you have extra quanta of.  If he's holding on to a Dissipation Shield, you often need to go the normal route.
Speed-Farming: Precognition is really your friend.  If he's holding on to early Druids and Mutations and you don't have a good TU hand, quit.
Much harder with the tower version than pendulum version.  Don't play any SN until you have the entire combo in your hand—VD + GF + 2 BBs. Before then, just play as many pendulums as possible. If you use towers, you probably won't have enough entropy quanta. Once you have everything, cast a single supernova; cast more later when you need quanta.
Speed-Farming: Usually auto-quit if you're going for card/hour.  If you do play a few turns, quit if he drops a couple of Chargers or Nymphs.
He's the opposite of Dark Matter, play as many SNs as you can as fast as possible. The exception is when you have a lot of everything except earth quanta. Then, save a SN for when you draw more BBs to prevent him from draining it all earlier. Damage really depends on eclipse, and the longer the game drags on before he plays one, the more likely he'll drain everything, including aether for TU's.  Play your VDs when you can but don't BB them.  Wait a turn for him to unload his Siphons and then use your BBs.
Speed-farming: For some, an auto-quit since you can only win if he plays an Eclipse early enough.  He's not too bad to beat though otherwise.
Since he doesn't have as much mutation potential as Chaos Lord, you can often pull the normal combo off.  You may have to play a defensive BB against Fallen Druids.  Don't bother TUing his mutants because he carries Rewinds (unless it's an Entropy mutant, then sometimes it's worth it since you usually have extra Entropy quanta).
Speed-farming: Like Chaos Lord, if he's holding or dropping early Druids and you don't have a good TU hand, quit.
Pretty straightforward though you're often low on Aether quanta due to Explosions.  Try to save a BB to freeze the weapon if you can.
Speed-farming: Play every game, even those with somewhat bad hands.  He's the best FG for cards so you really want every chance you can get to beat him.
One of the easier matchups because the damage just doesn't come quickly from DC and his Butterfly Effect doesn't have as big an impact as it does vs. other FG farming decks.  There is one tricky play you will have to watch out for.  Discord will mix your quanta up, meaning you will want to have played a SN; however, he has 2 black holes, which means you would want to have held onto your SN's.  More often than not you'll get screwed by Discord so go ahead and play your a SN (save the others).  Make sure to play your VD + GF + BBs the same turn if you can.  Since damage is low, you should have time to draw what you need before the VD dies.
Speed-farming: Quit if he messes up your quanta pool too much with a combination of Quicksand, BH, or Discord.
Make a large meatshield to soak up poison if you need to buy some time and you have the extra GF.  Keep track of his aether quanta because of his TU spam.  Precogs can help.  Be safe and TU your VD if you think he might drop his TU bomb and your VD won't be able to handle it.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.
Damage comes faster than almost any other false god here so hope to draw your combo early and pray for as many BB’s as possible because damage is difficult to predict from EP.  Beware of Fire Lances dealing death blows.  Watch his aether quanta and assume that whenever he's going to hit 9 he'll play a fractal for another 4 or so phoenixes - that's 16 more damage; plan accordingly.  You might consider using a BB on a Dragon if it will help your VD not be killed too soon.
Speed-farming: Quit if you don't have a good hand.  You have to be fast to beat EP.
Ferox is fast.  His speed is your biggest enemy.  Damage is fairly straightforward although a Jade Dragon or two might throw off your damage calculation.  You often have to do most if not all of the 200 damage through your TUs since he has lots of Bonds.
Speed-farming: Quit if he's healing to full health every turn and you won't have enough damage, Aether quanta, or TUs for an OTK.
Don't wait too long or there will be too many FFs and Bonds for your VD to handle.  If you can afford to, leave a plain VD out for his Animated EE to snipe.
Speed-farming: Quit if she's healing to full health every turn and you won't have enough damage, Aether quanta, or TUs for an OTK.
Play your VD + GF sooner rather than later because much of his damage will bypass your VD anyways.  If he only has 1 Momentum'd creature, make sure to BB it before you think he'll drop his TU bomb.  You can't go with a TU deck because he'll just TU your creatures.
Speed-farming: If he plays or is holding several Momentums and Spiders, quit.
Play your VD + GF early because you will need to soak up as much damage as possible before momentum kills you.  If he plays an early Momentum'd Otyugh, TU it and eat his Chargers and Momentum'd Firemasters.
Speed-farming: If he drops early Momentum on his Firemasters instead of Otyugh, quit.
Drop your VD ASAP but wait a turn for him to waste his Lances on it before you BB it.  Sometimes BBing a built up Lava Destroyer to give your VD a breather for a few more turns will help.  Also, consider TUing his first Destroyer once it's built up beyond Lance range (7 HP or more depending on if he wasted Lances on your VD already) and than GF his copy.  You get rid of a powerful creature and you start wailing on his HP with a big hitter of your own.  Be careful not to waste too much Earth quanta on growing him; you need them for your BBs too.  Also, beware of Lances dealing unexpected death blows.
Speed-farming: Quit if you don't have a good hand.  You have to be fast to beat Hermes.
Vampires cause him to heal himself so you're going to need more damage than normal.  Keep track of Graveyards and Retroviruses when calculating damage.  Leave a plain VD as long as possible to soak up poison.  If you have the extra GF, drop your VD, all your BBs, and then TU it.  You'll get double the poison that way.  GF the first VD and let it die while adding extra BBs to the 2nd VD.  Once the first one dies, GF the second VD and then TU spam that one before it dies.  Of course play any extra VDs you have to get extra poison as well.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.
Straightforward battle except keep in mind that damage can either come modestly or at a speed that is impossible to build against.  Consider burning an early TU or TU + GF to counter a multi-blessed Dragon or Pegasus.  Make sure you have enough damage to kill him in one go.  You can get him to about 60-70 HP remaining before he thinks about playing Miracle.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.
If you try and move too quickly, bone dragons can spoil your day.  If you try and stall for more cards, poison can spoil your day.  You just got to time it well.  You can TU an Archangel to help your VD live longer, but overall, it's better to just TU your VD for more damage.  If you have the extra GF, drop your VD, all your BBs, and then TU it.  You'll get double the poison that way.  GF the first VD and let it die while adding extra BBs to the 2nd VD.  Once the first one dies, GF the second VD and then TU spam that one before it dies.  Of course play any extra VDs you have to get extra poison as well.  If he has more than 12 Light quanta, make sure you have enough damage to kill him in one go.  You can get him to about 60-70 HP remaining before he thinks about playing Miracle.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand or he gets a ton of poison on you early.
Normally it's good to drop a VD without BBs to get a FG to waste his CC on it, but against Neptune, I would not recommend this unless you have an extra VD.  He will Congeal and then Shockwave your VD into oblivion if it's not BB'd.  You can let your HP run fairly low against Neptune but watch his Water quanta.  Dragon and Crawler spam can hurt both you and your VD.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.
Obliterator will be happy to supply a GF if you don't have one.  If he doesn't play a lot of Momentum, you can go with the normal strategy and BB any late Momentum'd creatures.  If he starts off with a lot of Momentum (or has a lot in hand), go with a TU strategy.  Drop a VD for him to GF.  Then try to TU a momentum'd Dragon if possible.  They can survive a hit or two if they get GF'd.  If he does GF your Dragon, you play your own GF back on the VD.  Also, if you're low on HP he'll sometimes pop open those Shriekers so watch out.
Speed-farming: Quit if he has a lot of momentum and you don't have a good TU hand.
Lots of Eagle's Eyes and animates = win. Lots of gases = lose.  Drop all your VDs ASAP.  Also, don't bother BBing them until you have to.  They will be sniped if they aren't BB'd.  GF your VD sooner rather than later because you have to get the damage in before 5 UGs are played.
Speed-farming: If he's holding a lot of UGs and no Animates or EEs, quit.
It's recommended to start your combo maybe a little sooner than usual if you have the cards to do so because of Trebuchets and momentum.  Pretty straightforward otherwise.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.
Straightforward match except damage can come quickly and is REALLY unpredictable in calculating due to déjà vu splits, blessings, and TU spam.  It seems like every time you have a nice comfortable BB cushion on your doll with GF applied, Paradox senses it, spams about 4 or 5 TUs on a giant furball, and squashes your hopes and dreams of winning.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.
Rainbow will be happy to supply a GF if you don't have one, but you'll have to wait for the Congeals to wear off.  Playing a vanilla VD will also help draw out any Lightnings.  Watch for his hourglasses to speed up the match and damage so be careful with your calculation.  Also, if you're low on HP he'll sometimes pop open those Shriekers so watch out.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.
Get your VD out early because he doesn't have alot of physical damage and you will die too soon if you don't start working down your VD's HP early.  Make a meat shield if you need to stop early Puffer poison and have the extra GF.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand or he gets a ton of poison on you early.
Try to play your Pendulums/Towers one by one due to Quicksands, or double stack the Pendulums when they are giving aether quanta.  If you can spare a BB, sometimes it's smart to use one on a Dragon (Silurian especially).  Also, if you're low on HP he'll sometimes pop open those Shriekers so watch out.
Speed-farming: Quit if RNG gave you a sucky Pillar draw.
Code: [Select]
[size=18pt][b]STRATEGY COMPILATION[/b][/size]

[size=14pt][b]Basic Concepts[/b][/size]
[list type=decimal]
[li]Play Pendulums/Towers and Supernovas to gain quanta.[/li]
[li]Play VD and GF to redirect damage to Doll.  This buys you time and hurts the FG.[/li]
[li]Use BB on your VD to lengthen his life and freeze the FG's weapon.[/li]
[li]Once your VD is low on HP, use TU to multiply the damage done on that VD's HP to the FG's HP.[/li]
[/list]

[size=14pt][b]General Strategies[/b][/size]
[list type=decimal]
[li]In general, wait to start your combo as long as possible.  Once you GF your doll, there's no turning back so make sure you have as many of the cards you need to pull a win as possible.[/li]
[li]In general, you need a minimum combination of 3 BBs and 2 TUs or 2 BBs and 3 TUs plus the VD and GF.[/li]
[li]Play your VD and BB ASAP if the FG plays a weapon.  Also, always hold on to 1 BB if your VD doesn't need it to live.  Use it to (re)freeze the FG's weapon.[/li]
[li]Play an early VD without BB to draw out CC spells (Lances, Plagues, etc.).  Do not use this tactic against FGs with Rewind.  Wait to play the GF until you're ready to start the combo.[/li]
[li]Keep track of the damage [i]potential[/i] of the FG's next turn.  It's not enough to add up the damage on the field.  You must know what kind of creatures he might draw and see if he has enough quanta to play those creatures.  To be safe, always assume he'll do the maximum damage.  However, there are times where you have to just hope he doesn't play x creature because it's the only way you can win due to the circumstances.[/li]
[li]If your VD might/will die next turn but you don't have enough TUs to win, go ahead and TU the VD once to save a copy of the damage already accumulated on that VD.  Drawing more BBs, TUs, or even another GF might win you the game in the subsequent turns.  Also, go ahead and use any of your BBs on that VD that's going to die anyways before you TU.  You'll do maximum damage with the first VD and you'll have the extra HP for the second VD in case you draw another GF.[/li]
[/list]
 
[size=14pt][b]Advance Techniques (aka Guerilla Tactics)[/b][/size]
[list type=decimal]
[li]If you're taking too much damage too quickly and you need to buy yourself some time, play your VD, all your BBs, a GF, then TU it.  By doing this,  you create a massive meatshield while you buy yourself more time to draw the needed cards to win.  A second GF in hand is recommend before attempting this.
[spoiler=An example]The FGs damage is suddenly at 32 and you are bound to do something or die (26 HPs left).
Unfortunately, you only hold 2 measly BBs so far. Casting the VD now means the VD dies next turn if you
don't draw another BB right away. Your clogged hand holds: 3 TUs, 2 GFs, 2 BBs, 1 VD.
Looks like its Guerilla-time!
turn1 -> You spit in the face of the FG by casting VD + 2 BBs + 1 TU, then you GF VD1.
turn2 -> (draw: no BB, sorry) your VD1 has 28HP left, you leave it to die and suck up that damage.
turn3 -> (draw: whatever) the FG ramped up his dmg to 38, VD1 has bit the grass and dealt a total of 54dmg
to the FG, you GF VD2.
turn4 -> (draw: BB, finally!) VD2 has 22 HP left, + 1 BB = 42HP
turn5 -> (draw: whatever) VD2 has 4 HP left, you TU it twice and kill the god: 76 x 2 = 152 + 54 (VD1) = 206!

What you just did is converting a single TU into 60 life-saving HPs (VD1) to keep you afloat a couple more turns.
That gave you a chance to finally draw that damn 3rd BB over 3 turns.
If you had just stuck to your standard plan, you would have hit "quit" at turn 2 because normally, TUing a doll
for low damage is inacceptable: you just need to hit that magical 67 damage (2 TUs) or 50 damage (3 TUs) with your
VD alive to do it. This is especially the case if you don't have the aether quanta to just "blow" a TU on this move.
The more standard version of this guerilla-move I use quite often is TUing a half-assed damaged doll (e.g.~45HP)
to preserve my doll while I hope for more BBs.[/spoiler][/li]
[li]It's sometimes necessary to play a defensive BB.  Examples include controlling momentum damage from creatures, stopping Fallen Druids from mutating, stopping Gravity Nymphs from spamming Black Hole, etc.[/li]
[li]Additionally, it's sometimes necessary to burn a TU on an opposing creature, and then GF it's copy or some other nasty creature.  Examples include abnormally large creatures from miracle, paradox, or TUing something without momentum to GF a creature with momentum.[/li]
[li]Against some FGs, it's recommended to play the deck as a TU deck and use BB and GF as CC.  Use GFs first, especially when you can TU a creature that has enough attack to knock out a creature with 1 hit.  Alternately, you can use GFs on your VDs to stop a little damage, buying you a turn or two.[/li]
[li]In some situations you can use any extra quanta and TUs on enemy uber-creatures to shave off some HP off the FG.
[spoiler=An example]
One scenario of a "bad draw" is getting like 4 TUs early on. Now if that is paired with your decent standard
2 towers you just got yourself some options other than only playing plan A.
With towers you can actually afford to use 1 or even 2 TUs for something other than your doll to get an early
game advantage.
I have copied kick-ass Lavadestroyers, Forestspectres, Lightdragons, Druids, Mutants ... anything that shaves
off an extra 15-30 damage (depending on survivability).
Also keep in mind that you will often have an extra GF hanging around: Your freshly cloned Lava Destroyer
just killed your one worry if you can make it long enough for your VD cast ...[/spoiler][/li]
[/list]

[size=14pt][b]FG by FG Breakdown[/b][/size]

[spoiler=Chaos Lord]Play your deck as a TU + stall deck.  TU his largest mutant and then use your CC to control his field (Druids, Demons, and other nasties).  TUing the best mutant makes for better mutants.  Also consider TUing creatures whose ability you have extra quanta of.  If he's holding on to a Dissipation Shield, you often need to go the normal route.
Speed-Farming: Precognition is really your friend.  If he's holding on to early Druids and Mutations and you don't have a good TU hand, quit.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Dark Matter]Much harder with the tower version than pendulum version.  Don't play any SN until you have the entire combo in your hand—VD + GF + 2 BBs. Before then, just play as many pendulums as possible. If you use towers, you probably won't have enough entropy quanta. Once you have everything, cast a single supernova; cast more later when you need quanta.
Speed-Farming: Usually auto-quit if you're going for card/hour.  If you do play a few turns, quit if he drops a couple of Chargers or Nymphs.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Decay]He's the opposite of Dark Matter, play as many SNs as you can as fast as possible. The exception is when you have a lot of everything except earth quanta. Then, save a SN for when you draw more BBs to prevent him from draining it all earlier. Damage really depends on eclipse, and the longer the game drags on before he plays one, the more likely he'll drain everything, including aether for TU's.  Play your VDs when you can but don't BB them.  Wait a turn for him to unload his Siphons and then use your BBs.
Speed-farming: For some, an auto-quit since you can only win if he plays an Eclipse early enough.  He's not too bad to beat though otherwise.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Destiny]Since he doesn't have as much mutation potential as Chaos Lord, you can often pull the normal combo off.  You may have to play a defensive BB against Fallen Druids.  Don't bother TUing his mutants because he carries Rewinds (unless it's an Entropy mutant, then sometimes it's worth it since you usually have extra Entropy quanta).
Speed-farming: Like Chaos Lord, if he's holding or dropping early Druids and you don't have a good TU hand, quit.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Divine Glory]Pretty straightforward though you're often low on Aether quanta due to Explosions.  Try to save a BB to freeze the weapon if you can.
Speed-farming: Play every game, even those with somewhat bad hands.  He's the best FG for cards so you really want every chance you can get to beat him.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Dream Catcher]One of the easier matchups because the damage just doesn't come quickly from DC and his Butterfly Effect doesn't have as big an impact as it does vs. other FG farming decks.  There is one tricky play you will have to watch out for.  Discord will mix your quanta up, meaning you will want to have played a SN; however, he has 2 black holes, which means you would want to have held onto your SN's.  More often than not you'll get screwed by Discord so go ahead and play your a SN (save the others).  Make sure to play your VD + GF + BBs the same turn if you can.  Since damage is low, you should have time to draw what you need before the VD dies.
Speed-farming: Quit if he messes up your quanta pool too much with a combination of Quicksand, BH, or Discord.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Elidnis]Make a large meatshield to soak up poison if you need to buy some time and you have the extra GF.  Keep track of his aether quanta because of his TU spam.  Precogs can help.  Be safe and TU your VD if you think he might drop his TU bomb and your VD won't be able to handle it.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Eternal Pheonix]Damage comes faster than almost any other false god here so hope to draw your combo early and pray for as many BB’s as possible because damage is difficult to predict from EP.  Beware of Fire Lances dealing death blows.  Watch his aether quanta and assume that whenever he's going to hit 9 he'll play a fractal for another 4 or so phoenixes - that's 16 more damage; plan accordingly.  You might consider using a BB on a Dragon if it will help your VD not be killed too soon.
Speed-farming: Quit if you don't have a good hand.  You have to be fast to beat EP.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Ferox]Ferox is fast.  His speed is your biggest enemy.  Damage is fairly straightforward although a Jade Dragon or two might throw off your damage calculation.  You often have to do most if not all of the 200 damage through your TUs since he has lots of Bonds.
Speed-farming: Quit if he's healing to full health every turn and you won't have enough damage, Aether quanta, or TUs for an OTK.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Fire Queen]Don't wait too long or there will be too many FFs and Bonds for your VD to handle.  If you can afford to, leave a plain VD out for his Animated EE to snipe.
Speed-farming: Quit if she's healing to full health every turn and you won't have enough damage, Aether quanta, or TUs for an OTK.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Gemini]Play your VD + GF sooner rather than later because much of his damage will bypass your VD anyways.  If he only has 1 Momentum'd creature, make sure to BB it before you think he'll drop his TU bomb.  You can't go with a TU deck because he'll just TU your creatures.
Speed-farming: If he plays or is holding several Momentums and Spiders, quit.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Graviton]Play your VD + GF early because you will need to soak up as much damage as possible before momentum kills you.  If he plays an early Momentum'd Otyugh, TU it and eat his Chargers and Momentum'd Firemasters.
Speed-farming: If he drops early Momentum on his Firemasters instead of Otyugh, quit.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Hermes]Drop your VD ASAP but wait a turn for him to waste his Lances on it before you BB it.  Sometimes BBing a built up Lava Destroyer to give your VD a breather for a few more turns will help.  Also, consider TUing his first Destroyer once it's built up beyond Lance range (7 HP or more depending on if he wasted Lances on your VD already) and than GF his copy.  You get rid of a powerful creature and you start wailing on his HP with a big hitter of your own.  Be careful not to waste too much Earth quanta on growing him; you need them for your BBs too.  Also, beware of Lances dealing unexpected death blows.
Speed-farming: Quit if you don't have a good hand.  You have to be fast to beat Hermes.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Incarnate]Vampires cause him to heal himself so you're going to need more damage than normal.  Keep track of Graveyards and Retroviruses when calculating damage.  Leave a plain VD as long as possible to soak up poison.  If you have the extra GF, drop your VD, all your BBs, and then TU it.  You'll get double the poison that way.  GF the first VD and let it die while adding extra BBs to the 2nd VD.  Once the first one dies, GF the second VD and then TU spam that one before it dies.  Of course play any extra VDs you have to get extra poison as well.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Miracle]Straightforward battle except keep in mind that damage can either come modestly or at a speed that is impossible to build against.  Consider burning an early TU or TU + GF to counter a multi-blessed Dragon or Pegasus.  Make sure you have enough damage to kill him in one go.  You can get him to about 60-70 HP remaining before he thinks about playing Miracle.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Morte]If you try and move too quickly, bone dragons can spoil your day.  If you try and stall for more cards, poison can spoil your day.  You just got to time it well.  You can TU an Archangel to help your VD live longer, but overall, it's better to just TU your VD for more damage.  If you have the extra GF, drop your VD, all your BBs, and then TU it.  You'll get double the poison that way.  GF the first VD and let it die while adding extra BBs to the 2nd VD.  Once the first one dies, GF the second VD and then TU spam that one before it dies.  Of course play any extra VDs you have to get extra poison as well.  If he has more than 12 Light quanta, make sure you have enough damage to kill him in one go.  You can get him to about 60-70 HP remaining before he thinks about playing Miracle.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand or he gets a ton of poison on you early.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Neptune]Normally it's good to drop a VD without BBs to get a FG to waste his CC on it, but against Neptune, I would not recommend this unless you have an extra VD.  He will Congeal and then Shockwave your VD into oblivion if it's not BB'd.  You can let your HP run fairly low against Neptune but watch his Water quanta.  Dragon and Crawler spam can hurt both you and your VD.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Obliterator]Obliterator will be happy to supply a GF if you don't have one.  If he doesn't play a lot of Momentum, you can go with the normal strategy and BB any late Momentum'd creatures.  If he starts off with a lot of Momentum (or has a lot in hand), go with a TU strategy.  Drop a VD for him to GF.  Then try to TU a momentum'd Dragon if possible.  They can survive a hit or two if they get GF'd.  If he does GF your Dragon, you play your own GF back on the VD.  Also, if you're low on HP he'll sometimes pop open those Shriekers so watch out.
Speed-farming: Quit if he has a lot of momentum and you don't have a good TU hand.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Octane]Lots of Eagle's Eyes and animates = win. Lots of gases = lose.  Drop all your VDs ASAP.  Also, don't bother BBing them until you have to.  They will be sniped if they aren't BB'd.  GF your VD sooner rather than later because you have to get the damage in before 5 UGs are played.
Speed-farming: If he's holding a lot of UGs and no Animates or EEs, quit.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Osiris]It's recommended to start your combo maybe a little sooner than usual if you have the cards to do so because of Trebuchets and momentum.  Pretty straightforward otherwise.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Paradox]Straightforward match except damage can come quickly and is REALLY unpredictable in calculating due to déjà vu splits, blessings, and TU spam.  It seems like every time you have a nice comfortable BB cushion on your doll with GF applied, Paradox senses it, spams about 4 or 5 TUs on a giant furball, and squashes your hopes and dreams of winning.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Rainbow]Rainbow will be happy to supply a GF if you don't have one, but you'll have to wait for the Congeals to wear off.  Playing a vanilla VD will also help draw out any Lightnings.  Watch for his hourglasses to speed up the match and damage so be careful with your calculation.  Also, if you're low on HP he'll sometimes pop open those Shriekers so watch out.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Scorpio]Get your VD out early because he doesn't have alot of physical damage and you will die too soon if you don't start working down your VD's HP early.  Make a meat shield if you need to stop early Puffer poison and have the extra GF.
Speed-farming: Play unless you have a horrible hand or he gets a ton of poison on you early.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Seism]Try to play your Pendulums/Towers one by one due to Quicksands, or double stack the Pendulums when they are giving aether quanta.  If you can spare a BB, sometimes it's smart to use one on a Dragon (Silurian especially).  Also, if you're low on HP he'll sometimes pop open those Shriekers so watch out.
Speed-farming: Quit if RNG gave you a sucky Pillar draw.[/spoiler]

Offline TheonlyrealBeef

  • Master of Darkness
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4058
  • Country: nl
  • Reputation Power: 61
  • TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!
  • Do not underestimate the power of the dark side!
  • Awards: War #14 Winner - Team Aether14th Trials - Master of Darkness2019 - PvP World ChampionSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeWar #13 Winner - Team Darkness13th Trials - Master of DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner4th Grandmaster Battle Winner - DarknessGold DonorSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #12 Winner - Team DarknessWeekly Tournament Winner12th Trials - Master of DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 9th Birthday Cake2017 - PvP World ChampionWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 3/2016 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeTeam PvP #4 Winner5th Trials - Master of Darkness4th Trials - Master of Darkness3rd Trials - Master of DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerMS Paint Card Art #2 Winner
Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg276409#msg276409
« Reply #259 on: February 22, 2011, 06:10:43 pm »
[Grammarnazi]It's Seism, not Siesm ;)[/Grammarnazi]

A lot of this looks good, Dragoon (learned something myself fromt it about Dark Matter), although one obvious thing about Gemini was missing: the fact that it doesn't matter how many Unstoppables (s)he has in hand when (s)he fails to draw Gravity Towers ;)

And for Obliterator, Rainbow and Seism: it's Shriekers, not Graboids :P

Offline jmdt

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2782
  • Reputation Power: 33
  • jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • New to Elements
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday Cake
Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg276410#msg276410
« Reply #260 on: February 22, 2011, 06:12:21 pm »
I really need to try this deck.  How bad will it wreck my score?

Offline TheonlyrealBeef

  • Master of Darkness
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4058
  • Country: nl
  • Reputation Power: 61
  • TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!
  • Do not underestimate the power of the dark side!
  • Awards: War #14 Winner - Team Aether14th Trials - Master of Darkness2019 - PvP World ChampionSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeWar #13 Winner - Team Darkness13th Trials - Master of DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner4th Grandmaster Battle Winner - DarknessGold DonorSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #12 Winner - Team DarknessWeekly Tournament Winner12th Trials - Master of DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 9th Birthday Cake2017 - PvP World ChampionWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 3/2016 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeTeam PvP #4 Winner5th Trials - Master of Darkness4th Trials - Master of Darkness3rd Trials - Master of DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerMS Paint Card Art #2 Winner
Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg276416#msg276416
« Reply #261 on: February 22, 2011, 06:15:55 pm »
I really need to try this deck.  How bad will it wreck my score?
Fully upgraded and highly experienced with the deck => not at all.

wavedash

  • Guest
Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg276430#msg276430
« Reply #262 on: February 22, 2011, 06:35:16 pm »
This deck definitely hasn't hurt my score. It's increasing, just really slowly compared to CCWB.

Re: Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14435.msg276448#msg276448
« Reply #263 on: February 22, 2011, 07:01:29 pm »
since you lose 60 points to gain about 60 (lose two games then win one), plus the occasional EM
it doesn't surprise me that the score increase rather than decrease.

 

blarg: