Shak'ars Revenge (FG-Voodoo)

[Jangoo]

Looking good there Beef. Get some stats once your settled in will ya?


In the meantime, the first round of stats for the deck in the OP ...

And since simply reporting a ton of losses would be kind of dumb for this deck,

Introducing ...


The FG-efficiency-index! (FGei) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.new.html#new)
(click link to see what this is)


Shak'ars Revenge:

 100 games (24won/76lost/0EM), 4:15h
-> 2.55min/game, -> 24% win-rate
(e): 9 cards spun -> 37.5% card-spin-rate
-> 1200elec lost (per-game-reward/fee: 24x45 - 76x30 ), 10350elec won (cards)
-> 9150elec/4.25h profit
-> FGei(e) = 2150elec/h (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.new.html#new)

Chaos Lord     /4
Dark Matter    /3
Decay          1/
Destiny          /6
Divine Glory    3/2
Dream Catcher    /1
Elidnis              1/6
Eternal Phoenix 1/7
Ferox            /2
Fire Queen    /2
Gemini       4/2
Graviton    1/3
Hermes    1/3
Incarnate    2/5
Miracle       /2
Morte       2/6
Neptune    2/1
Obliterator    2/3
Octane       1/6
Osiris       /2
Paradox    1/5
Rainbow    1/3
Scorpio    1/1
Seism       /1

[Jangoo]

And since the first 100 games are completed, even though I would sure like to make up for those horrible
Phoenix, Eldinis, Destiny and Octane-matchups, trying those Precogs asap seemed a bit more tempting.   


So here it is, Shak'ar has wisened up big-time and brought his foretelling-skills to the battle:

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6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 74d 74d 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7tg 7tg 808 808 808 808 808 808 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b

I figured if Shak'ar would go all precognizing, he would go all the way. 

During those 100 games, any of the cards in the deck would show up too little, too much or just right equally,
so the general deck-balance is indeed well weighted already.
Hence: One of each has to go, except supernovas because without these the precognitions would only be
infuriating dead-weight.

13 games played so far and what can I say ... not bad, not bad at all ...
I think there could be a bit more in this than the current 24%

[Krahhl]

You don't want to get rid of one of everything, since that messes up your chances of drawing each card. By adding precognitions and removing a voodoo doll, you actually lowered the chances of drawing one from 10% to 8% (if you don't count precogs as cards because they allow you to draw another one). If you have 3 voodoo dolls and 6 twin universes, you should get rid of one doll and two TUs to keep the same proportions. However, you have to take things such as priority and necessity into account.

Priority means a card needs to be played before another card. For example, you can't play a doll without supernova and you can't play a gravity force without a doll. So your chain goes:
Supernova > Precognition > Voodoo Doll > Gravity Force = Basilisk Blood > Twin Universe
Aether towers are somewhere in there.
Since cards further down the chain will clog up your hand if you don't have the cards before it, it's generally better to have more copies of higher priority cards. But necessity also comes into the equation.

Necessity is what you need. You only need one doll and one gravity force, but multiple basilisk bloods and twin universes. TUs will end your game faster than BBs, but BBs are necessary to keep dolls alive until you have enough TUs. You need enough of both to win games.

It's hard to balance everything, and theory can only get you so far. Directly testing different varieties is the most reliable way to figure out which works the best.

[Nume]

This

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6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 74d 74d 74d 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 7qb 7qb 7tg 7tg 7tg 80b 80b 80b 80b 80bis basically what I'm trying right now, it's a lot more redundant against quanta stealing fgs like Decay and Dark Matter, while having a faster setup. The only drawback is that you can use less TUs which might hurt in longer battles (anything with Feral Bond), and a slight chance of not getting a pendulum, in which case you can practically give in right away.

Here's a nice screeny of stupid Decay feeling Shak'ars Revenge
(http://imageplay.net/)

I really like this version of the deck. It seems to be just as fast if not faster than the original, and at least in my limited experience, has a much greater win rate. I find it actually gives more stable aether production, even though it doesnt have as high of potential, simply because the mark is always providing aether (especially against PC heavy gods like divine glory). I actually switched one entropy pendelum for a 6th supernova, but other than that I really like how it plays and I won a pretty good rate of the time with it.

[Jangoo]

You don't want to get rid of one of everything, since that messes up your chances of drawing each card. By adding precognitions and removing a voodoo doll, you actually lowered the chances of drawing one from 10% to 8% (if you don't count precogs as cards because they allow you to draw another one). If you have 3 voodoo dolls and 6 twin universes, you should get rid of one doll and two TUs to keep the same proportions. However, you have to take things such as priority and necessity into account. [...]

Actually, if you do not count Precogs as cards, which is sort of reasonable even if a little sloppy,
the chance to draw a doll in your opening 7-card hand is 56%.

If you don't draw that doll in your opening hand, you have the following scenario:
Chances are 11% you draw one in turn 1, rising steadily up to 18% in turn 10.
You overall-chance to have drawn at least one doll by turn10 is close to 80%.

Taking opening hand AND drawing over turns into account, your chances to hold at least one doll
by turn 10 are a roaring 90%!  (~77% by turn 5 for comparison)

The same calculation naturally applies for the grav.pull.
Assuming that TUs and BBs wont be the problem along the way, there should be a combined 19%
chance of failure for those two keycards by turn10 (40% turn 5), meaning that you will lose less than
1/5 matches just because you are not holding a doll or grav.pull.

-> Cutting out 1 doll and 1 grav.pull was done in full awareness that this might just be pushing it too far
and I sure was thinking "Jeez, I could use two halfed cards now." On the other hand, these numbers really
don't look so bad.
But like you said: theory is theory ... ingame, the deck is working pretty well I find. 

Will be back with an FGei  (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html)some time soon ...

[TheonlyrealBeef]

This

Code: [Select]

6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 74d 74d 74d 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 7qb 7qb 7tg 7tg 7tg 80b 80b 80b 80b 80bis basically what I'm trying right now, it's a lot more redundant against quanta stealing fgs like Decay and Dark Matter, while having a faster setup. The only drawback is that you can use less TUs which might hurt in longer battles (anything with Feral Bond), and a slight chance of not getting a pendulum, in which case you can practically give in right away.

Here's a nice screeny of stupid Decay feeling Shak'ars Revenge
(http://imageplay.net/)

Allright, here's my result from fgs so far:

FG	Wins:	Losses:
Chaos Lord:	1	4
Dark Matter:	0	4
Decay:	0	1
Destiny:	1	6
Divine Glory:	2	3
Dream Catcher:	0	2
Elidnis:	0	6
Eternal Phoenix:	2	5
Ferox:	1	5
Fire Queen:	1	2
Gemini:	0	2
Graviton:	0	1
Hermes:	0	4
Incarnate:	2	2
Miracle:	1	2
Morte:	2	5
Neptune:	2	0
Obliterator:	3	1
Octane:	1	5
Osiris:	4	2
Paradox:	2	6
Rainbow:	6	3
Scorpio:	1	2
Seism:	2	4
Total:	34	77

Which gives a win rate of (34/(34+77))*100%=30.6% (28.4% normalized)
Needs more tests for greater accuracy.

And some nice SS from hard fgs:

EM Octane:
(http://imageplay.net/)
Focussed on Doll to show it takes only one more TU to win :PChaos Lord:
(http://imageplay.net/)

[Malduk]

Which gives a win rate of (34/(34+77))*100%=30.6% (28.4% normalized)
Needs more tests for greater accuracy.

I wouldnt even bother with god by god breakdown really. And that win ratio is simply amazing.

[Nume]

Lol funny that you went 0-6 vs elidnis. I beat him 6 out of the 7 times I faced him , with the only loss being one where he drew literally nothing but spectres it seemed and I couldnt draw TUs. However, with this deck your opponent seems to matter little heh. Its all about your draw, which is kinda nice since you always have a chance.

[Jangoo]

I wouldnt even bother with god by god breakdown really. And that win ratio is simply amazing.

Oh, I would. Because:

Lol funny that you went 0-6 vs elidnis. I beat him 6 out of the 7 times I faced him , with the only loss being one where he drew literally nothing but spectres it seemed and I couldnt draw TUs. However, with this deck your opponent seems to matter little heh. Its all about your draw, which is kinda nice since you always have a chance.

I had very similiar experiences with those decks. On page 1 of this thread you will see me bragging about totally destroying Destiny, Osiris and Seism with the deck constantly. That was during the first ~80 games,
which I hadn't recorded yet. Boy did those three go down against Shak'ar ...
Suddenly it all turned around and the gods that regularly went down before (also: Elidnis ;-)) managed to bug
the hell out of me and transformed a former 6:1 into a 1:6 ... Seisms QSs suddenly were trouble,
Destiny fielded early mutation all the time and Osiris seemed to be made of momentum ...

Now while all this may sound like the best reason to really not bother about the gods, I find it to be the perfect
occasion for normalizing the stats simply because even a decent 100 games could have been influenced so much
by luck of the draw (on your and the gods side) that you can never be sure how it is supposed to go.
With these decks you actually have a decent shot at seeing each god in any possible situation simply because
you are playing soooo many games ... You will catch Elidnis before and after her morning coffee, sober or high on crack,
naked in the shower or in full armature, in good spirits or totally hungover ... and all of those in between of course.

So taking god-by-god stats is actually more an indication of the FG-decks performance as of yours:
While Shak'ar will (on average and more or less regardless of the god) perform like he always does,
the god may not.
Until now, FGs would generally perform just like they always do: Gemini eventually gets his momentumed TU-flash,
Hermes his 33/27 Destroyers, Rainbow his 80 Hourglasses etc.
Since Shak'ar is so damn fast, even the FG have to worry about drawing certain cards in time.

Now that is sort of new to the FG-deck field and it could be reflected by taking those stats:

"How often does Shak'ar manage to pull off his strategy against certain gods?"
really becomes
"How often does a certain god manage to pull off his strategy against Shak'ar?" 


 

[Essence]

After a small sample of testing several variations, I've found that this one has the best chance of getting the combo out in time to not die.  The sample really is small, though, so it needs moar cowb----testing.  It's just Jangoo's Precog variant, above, but with the 2 hardest-to-get combo pieces (VD and GP) restored to their normal levels.

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[Jangoo]

Yeah, with the 2Doll/2grav.pull deck, I do get the feeling that those ~40%-20% (turn5-turn10) chance
to not get the combo in time are indeed realistic. On paper that may look agreeable, in reality
I find myself biting the keyboard a bit too often. 

I was thinking that tweaking it half/half could be good: 2Dolls/3 grav.pull
I would use more grav.pulls because they can really make a tactical difference when you get to
improvising whereas an extra doll usually just goes to waste.
As of now though, I am bound to see this through with 2/2 and get those 100 games in. 

[Malduk]

This is what I've been testing since someone mentioned Precogs:

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6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 74d 74d 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 77l 7qb 7qb 7qb 7tg 7tg 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b
Pendulums work much better than Aether towers IMO (props to $$$), and Precogs increase the chance of getting that combo down. Win ratio is definitely higher than in original version, and I find myself smashing stuff on my deck less often now 

I do like Beefs version too though. 3 dolls / pulls should also work well. Hard to tell which version should have better win ratio, I wasnt taking stats about anything but card won (just for teh lulz).

Anyway, just for those that havent tried the deck out or are wondering is investing in it a good choice: I played it last night for an hour and a half. Won 11 cards (got some luck in double spins ), which is a huge money income. I also "felt" like I'm winning a lot of matches. But my score was actually going down the whole time playing it hahaha. You lose more than you win, and when you win, you win with low HP. Anyway, awesome deck to have for some fun spinning time, but I suggest having another more "reliable" FG deck too. Also, when you pull your 100 HP doll, it feels like cheating hahahaha.  Precious!