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Offline XinefTopic starter

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg62678#msg62678
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2010, 01:29:45 pm »
Some new variants:

Code: [Select]
5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u6 719 77i 77i 77i 7am 7gp 7n0 7n0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 7q8 7qc 7qc 80h 80h+ plague + fallen druid + 2 quantum towers
- butterfly effect - graviton firemaster - feral bond

This is based on some suggestions and other pharaoh decks. It does not seem to work better than the original (maybe due to improved AI, or maybe I was just unlucky overall, quite probable considering I had time to do only 22 battles so far), but it's more fun to play... I missed mutations quite a bit ;)

Statistics here:
http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=815812701


Code: [Select]
5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rs 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u8 719 77i 7am 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q3 7q3 7q3 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 7q8 7qc 80h 80hAn :entropy mark supernova variant with turtle shields as the main defense and reduced importance of non-time cards.
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

Qohelet

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg63982#msg63982
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2010, 07:17:31 pm »
Pharao is awesome card and I think Anubis is must have too. It took some time to make balanced deck (ok, I shamelesly took basics from your deck). Actually my variation is mix from your latest two versions, and spiced with something my own. Played lot with two eternities, so I thought why not add one animate weapon? You have lots and lots time quantum, so much you can't use it all anyway no matter what. First I made an 40 card version, but when I realised how fast deck can be when you don't have to count every time quantum: just draw like a madman and it takes only few turns when you draw last card. This deck type (time heavy) is SO FUN... with two eternities you can rewind FG's and own cards in same turn - how good is that?

I'm not saying this version is super good or something like that, but it's definitely enjoyable. If there is obvious flaws in deck design, let me know so I can tweak it.

Code: [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u8 717 719 77i 77i 7ak 7am 7am 7do 7do 7gp 7gv 7n0 7n2 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q7 7q8 7q8 7qc 7t6 7t8 80d 80h 80h
And one pic...



Offline XinefTopic starter

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg64256#msg64256
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2010, 06:39:02 am »
Wow, that's quite a nice deck :)

As for flaws, I'd add at least a few unupped sundials (helpful against momentum gods, and help with EM against gods with immortal creatures), replace pest with graviton firemaster (or an unupped pharaoh) as both allow you to use butterfly without a skeleton, but have more useful abilities.

I'm not sure, but if you replace pest with an unupped pharaoh, you can produce creatures quite fast anyway, so I'd drop graveyard and two firestorms for two plagues. They are cheap to cast and help with taking out dragons, queens, pharaohs, growing creatures and if you can play them while opponent has some unburrowed shriekers a single plague is enough to kill them eventually.

Also, with even a single plague and two quints I can beat any false god without using an anubis (without plague graviton was hard due to momentumed otys), but if you prefer to use one anubis I guess both are good options. Especially with so much :time quanta.


I'd love to see some statistics from you ;]
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

Qohelet

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg64483#msg64483
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2010, 06:27:49 pm »
I'd love to see some statistics from you ;]
26 games played today:
.....win/loss....
Seism 0-3
Miracle 1-1
Destiny 1-0
Dream Catcher 0-1
Obliterator 0-2
Incarnate 5-0
Gemini 1-1
Decay 1-1
Octane 0-1
Osiris 0-1
Morte 0-2 (morte is quite easy fg, maybe my luck was terrible or I'm exceptional bad player)
Paradox 1-0
Dark Matter 0-1
Chaos Lord 0-1
Divine Glory 0-1

total 10/26 = 38% win rate - so deck need some sort of fix

Early shield is key for staying alive... this deck need more defensive card's, maybe I add another permafrost to deck. Still quite rarely starting hand is very bad, and when things start going well this deck is like a train: nothing can stop it. Played against incarnate 5 times (easy one), just keep scarabs busy and don't care when bonewall is like 50+ ><. 

Hmm... -1 firestorm, +1 permafrost ? or antimatter..

Lluis83

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg64495#msg64495
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2010, 06:48:27 pm »


total 10/26 = 38% win rate - so deck need some sort of fix

Early shield is key for staying alive... this deck need more defensive card's, maybe I add another permafrost to deck. Still quite rarely starting hand is very bad, and when things start going well this deck is like a train: nothing can stop it. Played against incarnate 5 times (easy one), just keep scarabs busy and don't care when bonewall is like 50+ ><. 

Hmm... -1 firestorm, +1 permafrost ? or antimatter..

[/quote]

Hello. 

I think that two feral bonds and one jade shield is too heavy on life quanta. One feral bond is enoght, because, when you have the swarm created, it means that you are on the right way, so having two only can make that you draw it too early when is useless or worse that you draw two without being able to cast them. For me, the shards are better in this kind of deck, because help you early on the game.



 About the Jade Shield, it's useful against Octane, Decay, Eternal Phoenix, and other firelancers, but for the rest of the gods, permafrost is better. Maybe it would be better the white shield that reflects, because you can cast it faster.

I don't see the point in Ulitharid. If there is a nasty creature with momentum, you can rewind it with the eternity.

Maybe sundials will be useful to stall until you have the rights cards.





Qohelet

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg64541#msg64541
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2010, 08:00:12 pm »
I think that two feral bonds and one jade shield is too heavy on life quanta.

How you calculated it? There is 6 supernovas and 6 quantum towers, bond's are very useful and there is usually much life quanta when needed. Still one bond maybe enough, if I replace it with Antimatter.

Quote
About the Jade Shield, it's useful against Octane, Decay, Eternal Phoenix, and other firelancers, but for the rest of the gods, permafrost is better. Maybe it would be better the white shield that reflects, because you can cast it faster.
Jade shield is very useful as secondary shield (damage reduction 2), I use it everytime I can, and permafrost for hordes of course.

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I don't see the point in Ulitharid. If there is a nasty creature with momentum, you can rewind it with the eternity.
Can't always do everything with eternity. Ulitharid helps against many FG's. Decay's braindead Pests and so on (eternity is useless against decay, and sometimes harmless fillers is really good thing). I always quint it, with quintessence or anubis.

Quote
Maybe sundials will be useful to stall until you have the rights cards.
Deck is big without sundials, maybe I figure out something tomorrow.

Offline XinefTopic starter

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg64621#msg64621
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2010, 09:23:48 pm »
(morte is quite easy fg, maybe my luck was terrible or I'm exceptional bad player)
38% win rate is not bad overall, but my deck seems to have a better rate and I still see some problems with your deck so I guess it's not about your playing skills, but rather the deck needs some tweaking.

2 Feral Bonds and a Jade shield cost together too much :life (17) even for a normal rainbow, and especially in a half :time deck like this one. I can tell that based on my experience rather than some calculations, but if you need some then:
17 :life = 6 supernovas + 5 :life from quantum towers = digging through your whole deck and ~20 turns of a single quantum tower working, so probably around 4-8 turns of a stack of towers working, depending on how many you already have.
If you are unlucky and quantum towers stack at the bottom of your deck, you will have to discard even if you draw some supernovas.

Based on my experience and statistics (compare the first post and later variants) having 2 bonds greatly increased probability of EMing, but I don't think it has a great impact on winning ratio. Also 2 bonds was already quite heavy on :life quanta.

My suggestion: drop Jade Shield. It might be good against Octane and Decay, but tell me how often are you able to cast it against decay? It's really hard to gather even 7 :life with such a deck, unless you try to gather 4 supernovas to cast at once. I find plagues much better against Decay and against Octane a few SoGs + Eternity to rewind flying Eagle Eyes + a Fog Shield so that they miss even if in weapon slot...
In my deck I tried to pack cards that are useful against all the false gods, not counters to specific ones. Protect Artifacts are the only card that is useful against less than half of the FGs. Jade shield are on the other hand not very useful against any false god with dragons, buffed or growing creatures.
Also if you are concerned about the fact that Jade shield is untargetable while permafrost is, remember that FGs target hourglasses before shields ;)

2 permafrosts? I prefer having a cheap shield that I can use to survive until I can play a permafrost and I think it works quite well, but maybe with 6 supernovas and 6 quantum towers you might be able to play permafrosts easier... I'd say try it.

Don't worry if adding sundials makes your deck even larger. Most of the time playing a sundial gives you a 'free' turn to heal a bit and gather more quanta, use some hourglasses or later to eat some creatures, and unless you have no :light they also allow you to draw a card, so they rarely harm you. They are also useful against FGs with deflags. Start by playing a few towers and a sundial - if FG destroys the sundial he practically wastes it so hopefully your next permanent (eg. hourglass) will remain a while longer. If FG does not destroy the sundial it might mean he has no deflags in his hand.

Quote
I don't see the point in Ulitharid. If there is a nasty creature with momentum, you can rewind it with the eternity.
Can't always do everything with eternity. Ulitharid helps against many FG's. Decay's braindead Pests and so on (eternity is useless against decay, and sometimes harmless fillers is really good thing). I always quint it, with quintessence or anubis.
I have not tried using an ulitharid because I need :water for permafrost, but I guess it can be useful sometimes. I would prefer using quint on a pharaoh, a fallen elf/butterflied graviton firemaster, or on a scarab if I'm against Graviton/Neptune/Osiris, but I guess an ulitharid could help against some FGs like Fire Queen, Dark Matter, Osiris... I think it's not a bad decision, but it indeed needs more non-time quanta production.
On the other hand eternity is NOT useless against decay. It really helps if you can slow her down even only by half.
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

Qohelet

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg64766#msg64766
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2010, 05:06:52 am »
38% win rate is not bad overall, but my deck seems to have a better rate and I still see some problems with your deck so I guess it's not about your playing skills, but rather the deck needs some tweaking.
Maybe it's not overall, but I want at least +5% (knowing something is not right with this deck). Played lot with 30 card decks, and win rate is about 20-25% - funny thing with weak deck is you still win enough, make some electrum, cards drop..


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My suggestion: drop Jade Shield. It might be good against Octane and Decay, but tell me how often are you able to cast it against decay? It's really hard to gather even 7 :life with such a deck, unless you try to gather 4 supernovas to cast at once.
I can't see this that way, reason is: Jade is good shield and used in variety situations. Jade don't need PA, Jade blocks 2 damage and buy some time when needed.

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I find plagues much better against Decay and against Octane a few SoGs + Eternity to rewind flying Eagle Eyes + a Fog Shield so that they miss even if in weapon slot...
Fog shield (and dusk) is very good and cheap to cast.

Quote
In my deck I tried to pack cards that are useful against all the false gods, not counters to specific ones. Protect Artifacts are the only card that is useful against less than half of the FGs. Jade shield are on the other hand not very useful against any false god with dragons, buffed or growing creatures.
Thats true, still Jade helped me so many times, can't even think fg killer without Jade >< (maybe it's kind of fixation).



Quote
I have not tried using an ulitharid because I need :water for permafrost, but I guess it can be useful sometimes. I would prefer using quint on a pharaoh, a fallen elf/butterflied graviton firemaster, or on a scarab if I'm against Graviton/Neptune/Osiris, but I guess an ulitharid could help against some FGs like Fire Queen, Dark Matter, Osiris... I think it's not a bad decision, but it indeed needs more non-time quanta production.
On the other hand eternity is NOT useless against decay. It really helps if you can slow her down even only by half.
I quint everything I can, always - that's the main reason why I hava elite anubis in deck :)

One bond removed, added antimatter and another permafrost - let see is it bad or good choice >< - maybe I replace one firestorm with another plague later...

Qohelet

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg64796#msg64796
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2010, 09:52:57 am »
My current version:

Code: [Select]
6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 6u8 719 71c 77i 77i 7ak 7am 7gp 7n0 7n2 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q7 7q8 7q8 7qc 7t6 7t8 80h 80h
Still thinking... ulitharid left the deck (that makes me little sad). Added 2 antimatters, 2 time towers, 1 electrum hourglass, +1 alfatoxin, removed many quantum towers. I played so many games with alfatoxin - now I'm testing if it fits to this deck. There is still 2 quantum towers. If there isn't any, devour don't work too long. At the point I really start eating FG's cards there is 12+ gravity quantum and later it's like 0-1 gravity quantum / turn with 2 quantum towers (how useful that can be? LOL). Animate weapon is golden, you can rewind so much more fg's cards - so many it almost make me feel sorry... ><

EDIT: Played for awhile and this version is better than my earlier variation. Don't have exact data, but my humble guess is that win rate is now about 43% - time to make some statistics, I guess.

Qohelet

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg64943#msg64943
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2010, 04:02:46 pm »
How many play with pharao deck? I must say: this is my favorite anti-fg deck now. If you like electrum hourglasses, rewinding cards, intresting uphill starts and somewhat weird situations, you definitely must try pharao!

I took few pics, first one is like earlier 'lock' (posted by Xinef) and second from my latest game. I put some statistic, and update this page daily, if someone is intrested?

win-loss

Ferox 2-1
Neptune 2-2
Osiris 0-2
Seism 3-2
Fire Queen 2-1
Obliterator 3-2
Destiny 2-0
Miracle 1-1
Decay 0-1
Rainbow 0-3
Morte 2-2
Dream Catcher 0-2
Incarnate 3-0
Octane 1-2
Gemini 1-0
Eternal Phoenix 3-0
Hermes 0-3
Divine Glory 1-4
Elidris 1-1
Chaos Lord 1-2
Scorpio 2-0

win 29/58 total played games (still this don't prove anything yet, too few games so far)






Offline XinefTopic starter

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg65022#msg65022
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2010, 07:30:42 pm »
Now, these statistics look closer to mine, so I guess everything is on the right way :D

Now that I think of it, Jade shield is not really that bad if you play it in conjunction with antimatter. The latter takes care of big hitters, so I guess it makes sense... but it's still :life heavy.

One thing I've not yet tried in a pharaoh deck is flying eternity, but now that I think of it, it should be the next thing I'll try.
I'm also going to have a go at 60 cards, because I guess even my 50 card decks are very inconsistent in that loses are caused by not enough quantum pillars or cards not matching the pillars drawn, so I guess going 60 cards (by using both supernovas and quantum towers) might in fact help.

Flying eternity pretty much means I'll have to go back to using anubis... heh... I just think there is still quite a lot we can improve in pharaoh decks.
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

Qohelet

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Re: Pharaoh sails to Orion (time/rainbow) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4958.msg65047#msg65047
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2010, 07:59:53 pm »
Now, these statistics look closer to mine, so I guess everything is on the right way :D
Yep, going to right direction with this one :) (finally)

Quote
Now that I think of it, Jade shield is not really that bad if you play it in conjunction with antimatter. The latter takes care of big hitters, so I guess it makes sense... but it's still :life heavy.
You just underestimate that Jade shield, it's one of the best in own way. Deck is not too  :life heavy, if I play against decay or octane I don't need that bond. One SoG + PA do the trick, when Jade shield is in play (and 2 antimattered flying eagle eye's  :P ).

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One thing I've not yet tried in a pharaoh deck is flying eternity, but now that I think of it, it should be the next thing I'll try.
Played so many games with flying eternity and it's one of the most useful things in heavy time -deck. Basicly you can drop FG "to knees" for many turns. Just hit the break and don't use hourglasses, just collect huge quantum resources and laugh when FG is virtually helpless, 2x rewind / every turn is mean.

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I'm also going to have a go at 60 cards, because I guess even my 50 card decks are very inconsistent in that loses are caused by not enough quantum pillars or cards not matching the pillars drawn, so I guess going 60 cards (by using both supernovas and quantum towers) might in fact help.
60 cards sounds too fatty, but maybe you can make it, just let me know how it goes.

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Flying eternity pretty much means I'll have to go back to using anubis... heh... I just think there is still quite a lot we can improve in pharaoh decks.
Think Elite Anubis as valuable asset, it's like ultimate bodyguard for all active things in your deck. If you can't play Anubis in time heavy deck, where you can use it?

Pharao deck rocks, kick asses, and other things like that - hype hype hype, don't believe the hype :)

 

blarg: