Most interesting RoL hope deck I've ever seen! Shining Bravery (<--deck name)

[Keeps]

Fractal is more efficient than mitosis for SoPa and SoBr purposes so many of the decks used fractal.

Doesn't matter though...  we haven't had new cards in a year and a half now.  The base themes have all been explored by now, there is nothing new, and even then most of the base themes behind certain combos were around a long time before those base themes.   Personal tweaking is all that's really now until we can get some new cards or a change in the rules forcing us to think differently.  It's like mono-darkness or mono-death...  When I first played I thought it was the most awesome thing I came up with...  except it was made 100 times before and 100 times after...  the idea doesn't matter anymore...  7 billion people on this planet, someone has had your ideas...  the difference is what you do with these ideas.   Tweak your deck to perfection...  actuate, that's the difference in this world, and in this game.

[Torriku]

Fractal is more efficient than mitosis for SoPa and SoBr purposes so many of the decks used fractal.

Doesn't matter though...  we haven't had new cards in a year and a half now.  The base themes have all been explored by now, there is nothing new, and even then most of the base themes behind certain combos were around a long time before those base themes.   Personal tweaking is all that's really now until we can get some new cards or a change in the rules forcing us to think differently.  It's like mono-darkness or mono-death...  When I first played I thought it was the most awesome thing I came up with...  except it was made 100 times before and 100 times after...  the idea doesn't matter anymore...  7 billion people on this planet, someone has had your ideas...  the difference is what you do with these ideas.   Tweak your deck to perfection...  actuate, that's the difference in this world, and in this game.

It matters to me.

[Doichimaru]

I don't know if it's just me, or what, but this looks a tad bit gimmicky. Just saying.

Not so gimmicky, but definitely themed.  I had come up with two high end FG farms at that time using SoBr/Dials/Nova/SoPa...  Big Balls, and BMBalls...
So...  I spent about a month and over 1500 games in the trainer trying to find the best elemental themed version using that combination as the base, and if the combination ultimately couldn't work, reducing it to at least being SoBr powered.

The result is in that link along with some other decks.

Hrmmm... I see.

Well, I've decided to play some matches vs FGs and what I have found isn't surprising. I took some notes on the deck and here's what I see:

1. No CC (not even a Lobotomizer/Electrocutor). Troublesome indeed.

2. SoBr = ??? (I understand that the combination of SoBr with the Sundials can make for a powerful draw engine in a deck, but this isn't some super speed powerhouse FG killer, it's more or less a stall at its core)

3. Not one, but two upped Hope shields. (Nobody ever listens do they? Upped Hope in RoL/Hope or any variant isn't the worth the time, space, nor electrum)

4. Off of point #5: you only have 2 Hopes. Period. 3 is a more magical number.

5. Only one Improved Miracle? Wasted space.

6. Only one Sanctuary? Again, wasted space.

7. Only 1 Explosion as CC? Lather, rinse, and repeat; wasted space.

8. Novas. I understand that they are there for quanta shortage in a pinch and for powering the SoPas, but imho there could be better uses of deck space. Secondly, the mulligan rate is higher in combination with the upped Sundials. Yes, you guessed it; wasted space (on not one, but two fronts).

9. mark? Really? Interesting... Doesn't help with the Fractals though. (Here's a hint: Fractal or die.)

10. Not enough Towers/Pendulums... (Remember, Fractal or die)

Sorry to break it to you, but in all my observation (and some playtesting), I find that this barely resembles anything of an RoL/Hope. Hell, its core is essentially almost non-existent, and there are so many different things going on... My mind is full of "frogs." No offense, but I wouldn't dream of spending my hard ground electrum on this for any opponent. Cheers~!   

[Keeps]

It's new to you, and you thought of it on your own...  take pride in that.  I had to learn a long time ago as an engineer that originality globally didn't matter, the ability to come up with original ideas in my own mind if actuated were of value.

Every million dollar idea I had...
Some of the bigger ones
I made an AI using Fuzzy Logic equations for Vibration Monitoring, it was new, but other AIs for that were done and mine performed no better all though differently, no patent for me.  But, I got to do a white paper.

Before that, I made a high end precision rotary table using a 36 pole motor...  turned out just a year before Ultra-motion came up with the same design for a 36 pole motor...  even though my 'original' design wasn't so original, it actually increased the value of the precision rotary table, as a mass producer of the motor made the rotary machine a lot more viable for a customer who had use of the machine.

Heck even as a kid, I mixed salsa and ranch to make a chip dip,  should have sold the recipe or something...  15 years later, I saw Tostitos selling a salsa ranch dip...  oh well...  mine still tastes better

Just because you find out your idea isn't as original as you think, doesn't mean it doesn't have value.   It's all about execution.  Tablets were around long before Apple made the Ipad...  GUI was around long before windows or mac os...  Take your idea and make something great...  don't worry about being original.

[Keeps]

1. No CC (not even a Lobotomizer/Electrocutor). Troublesome indeed.

Most FG grinders don't make use of CC.  The top 3 definitely don't.

2. SoBr = ??? (I understand that the combination of SoBr with the Sundials can make for a powerful draw engine in a deck, but this isn't some super speed powerhouse FG killer, it's more or less a stall at its core)

It is stall and rush, that's the whole point of SoBr, the draw power finally made two function decks possible in many forms.  Until it came about, you needed EHG to make multi-functions and they all had to have stall power and weren't rushers... so most were like Scared Girls' Rainbow, or an OTK like Instosis.  Now SoBr allows for a stall and a rush at the same time, or denial rush, or a bunch of other overall themes.   

3. Not one, but two upped Hope shields. (Nobody ever listens do they? Upped Hope in RoL/Hope or any variant isn't the worth the time, space, nor electrum)

I found it rarely mattered, with the fractal-ed RoL, but, that's a personal tweak.

4. Off of point #5: you only have 2 Hopes. Period. 3 is a more magical number.

The draw rate of SoBr + Dials which allows you to have a draw of 5, you have 40 cards, 7 to 8 on first draw...  with 6 turns of dial stall...  it's not a 30 card deck with single draw.  Go calculate the probabilities before you make that call.

5. Only one Improved Miracle? Wasted space.

It's for EM...  which increases the FGei immensely.  Remember, these were built to grind the FGs specifically.

6. Only one Sanctuary? Again, wasted space.

It's for EM and to give periodic wins against a couple key FGs to increase FGei.

7. Only 1 Explosion as CC? Lather, rinse, and repeat; wasted space.

Sorry, it's to break shield blocks, against the likes of Gemini, etc...  Remember it's an OTK,  a new old times variant which is the SoPa variant of RoL/Hope

8. Novas. I understand that they are there for quanta shortage in a pinch and for powering the SoPas, but imho there could be better uses of deck space. Secondly, the mulligan rate is higher in combination with the upped Sundials. Yes, you guessed it; wasted space (on not one, but two fronts).

 Novas allow for first turn SoBr play, mulligan doesn't matter against that many unupped cards, mulligan in effect doesn't matter, it also powers the SoBr, balances the pillars needed for fractal...  Allows for 3 fractal plays against FGs with heavy PC... 

9. mark? Really? Interesting... Doesn't help with the Fractals though. (Here's a hint: Fractal or die.)

Sorry, it's draw or die...  Fractals are easy to get...

10. Not enough Towers/Pendulums... (Remember, Fractal or die)

Sorry to break it to you, but in all my observation (and some playtesting), I find that this barely resembles anything of an RoL/Hope. Hell, its core is essentially almost non-existent, and there are so many different things going on... My mind is full of "frogs." No offense, but I wouldn't dream of spending my hard ground electrum on this for any opponent. Cheers~!   

Ha, nice gas lighting...  However, many of your comments showed great ignorance of the math and probabilities involved.  An ignorance of how to face some of the False Gods and possibly an ignorance of the meta-rules of the game.  By putting SoBr or SoPa let alone both, the 'feel' of old RoL/Hope was long gone...  it's no longer just a stall deck by that point period expecting it to feel like the original RoL/Hope is setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Doichimaru]

1. No CC (not even a Lobotomizer/Electrocutor). Troublesome indeed.

Most FG grinders don't make use of CC.  The top 3 definitely don't.

2. SoBr = ??? (I understand that the combination of SoBr with the Sundials can make for a powerful draw engine in a deck, but this isn't some super speed powerhouse FG killer, it's more or less a stall at its core)

It is stall and rush, that's the whole point of SoBr, the draw power finally made two function decks possible in many forms.  Until it came about, you needed EHG to make multi-functions and they all had to have stall power and weren't rushers... so most were like Scared Girls' Rainbow, or an OTK like Instosis.  Now SoBr allows for a stall and a rush at the same time, or denial rush, or a bunch of other overall themes.   

3. Not one, but two upped Hope shields. (Nobody ever listens do they? Upped Hope in RoL/Hope or any variant isn't the worth the time, space, nor electrum)

I found it rarely mattered, with the fractal-ed RoL, but, that's a personal tweak.

4. Off of point #5: you only have 2 Hopes. Period. 3 is a more magical number.

The draw rate of SoBr + Dials which allows you to have a draw of 5, you have 40 cards, 7 to 8 on first draw...  with 6 turns of dial stall...  it's not a 30 card deck with single draw.  Go calculate the probabilities before you make that call.

5. Only one Improved Miracle? Wasted space.

It's for EM...  which increases the FGei immensely.  Remember, these were built to grind the FGs specifically.

6. Only one Sanctuary? Again, wasted space.

It's for EM and to give periodic wins against a couple key FGs to increase FGei.

7. Only 1 Explosion as CC? Lather, rinse, and repeat; wasted space.

Sorry, it's to break shield blocks, against the likes of Gemini, etc...  Remember it's an OTK,  a new old times variant which is the SoPa variant of RoL/Hope

8. Novas. I understand that they are there for quanta shortage in a pinch and for powering the SoPas, but imho there could be better uses of deck space. Secondly, the mulligan rate is higher in combination with the upped Sundials. Yes, you guessed it; wasted space (on not one, but two fronts).

 Novas allow for first turn SoBr play, mulligan doesn't matter against that many unupped cards, mulligan in effect doesn't matter, it also powers the SoBr, balances the pillars needed for fractal...  Allows for 3 fractal plays against FGs with heavy PC... 

9. mark? Really? Interesting... Doesn't help with the Fractals though. (Here's a hint: Fractal or die.)

Sorry, it's draw or die...  Fractals are easy to get...

10. Not enough Towers/Pendulums... (Remember, Fractal or die)

Sorry to break it to you, but in all my observation (and some playtesting), I find that this barely resembles anything of an RoL/Hope. Hell, its core is essentially almost non-existent, and there are so many different things going on... My mind is full of "frogs." No offense, but I wouldn't dream of spending my hard ground electrum on this for any opponent. Cheers~!   

Ha, nice gas lighting...  However, many of your comments showed great ignorance of the math and probabilities involved.  An ignorance of how to face some of the False Gods and possibly an ignorance of the meta-rules of the game.  By putting SoBr or SoPa let alone both, the 'feel' of old RoL/Hope was long gone...  it's no longer just a stall deck by that point period expecting it to feel like the original RoL/Hope is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Let's make one thing clear: This isn't a "top FG grinder," hell it's not even in the recommended decks section. This thread is purely based on the "abstract idea" of a variant using SoBr.

Moving on, there is not "gas lighting," or whatever you call it; take it with a grain of salt or leave it. The choice is yours on that one. I also see that you seem to think that I am "setting myself up for disappointment" by (apparently) expecting this to feel like the old RoL/Hope. Let me set that record straight: I do not expect as much, since I knew that the meta would not allow for it eventually. In addition, do not belittle my comprehensive abilities in terms of understanding what the New Old Times is a variant of; I have worked on RoL/Hope with Higurashi and other members of this community long before Perpetual Light became a household standard in FG slaying (back when ScaredGirl's unupped FG killer was the name of the game).

Another thought that comes to mind; you say that I show ignorance in my comments in terms of the meta/FGs/etc.? I may have stepped away from the community for a while, but do understand that I am fully aware of the meta and all that comes with it. If you want an OtK, that is definitely not the one to be playing, and if you want to talk meta do note that the top FG grinders not utilizing CC is irrelevant. It just shows that there isn't enough innovation and motivation within this community at this time to create something of a good FG deck. In short, people are just looking for a cheap, easy, and lazy way to grind FGs while skipping the ones that obviously have lots of PC. (and if that's the "meta," then it sure turned out to be a disappointment)

My final thoughts on this: You still have not created something in-depth with the data to back it, and you call me ignorant, and you say that I'm "gas-lighting." Instead of name calling and slander, how about you do something constructive with your posts? Like, I dunno, contribute in someway to the community with a potentially wonderful deck idea? Playtesting, recording data, creating a thread of it and submitting it to finally be polished up and put on display; these things you should be doing. Remember, I only criticized your deck, not you. Cheers~!

P.S.: Please use the quote features in the text editor properly, as this jumble of a response is "gawdawful" to look at.

[Keeps]

Doichimaru,

Sorry for not using the quote feature (dealing with kids at the time of the writing and missed it.)

Let bury a few hatchets here.  I have a lot of respect for the 'old timers' of this game.  Although I lost my original account on these forums and never had it recovered, I've been around a long time as well, back when the rare weapons were being considered and added (leading to the T50 farms that everyone called cheating and eventually lead to the arena), the good old days when zanz was active.

Now you begin with:

Let's make one thing clear: This isn't a "top FG grinder," hell it's not even in the recommended decks section. This thread is purely based on the "abstract idea" of a variant using SoBr.

1.) The "abstract idea" of using a SoBr variant, as I just showed is not an abstract idea, it's been around for over a year. 
2.) I didn't immediately start out this conversation with criticizing someone's deck.
3.)The only reason I never posted my variant for testing, is because it was made after one of the top 3 FG decks of the current meta "The Malignant Balls That Could" was made before hand and it's got one of the highest WR ever for EtG...  so I just added this one to my collection, if you check the collections out there are hundreds of capable FG grinders posted by tons of people, just there isn't need anymore between pdials, voodoo bravery, and malignant balls that could, and all the oracle spin deck counters, no-one 'needs' a great FG for the grind, just for shits and giggles, for some variation...  the last FGei study never even got off the ground, there just isn't interest here...  you do it for the money, you play Arena, PVP, and the forum events for fun.

Moving on, there is not "gas lighting," or whatever you call it; take it with a grain of salt or leave it.

You had stated

Sorry to break it to you, but in all my observation (and some playtesting), I find that this barely resembles anything of an RoL/Hope.

I called it gas lighting simply because that is the method of debate attack used here, you are calling my observations or ability to observe into question with your own.  Stating it doesn't resemble RoL/Hope...  in effect calling my ability to recognize the core cards in RoL/Hope into question.

Another thought that comes to mind; you say that I show ignorance in my comments in terms of the meta/FGs/etc.? I may have stepped away from the community for a while, but do understand that I am fully aware of the meta and all that comes with it. If you want an OtK, that is definitely not the one to be playing, and if you want to talk meta do note that the top FG grinders not utilizing CC is irrelevant. It just shows that there isn't enough innovation and motivation within this community at this time to create something of a good FG deck.

The meta has changed from the old days and except for periodic blips on the radar.  There are rarely many decks that have had 50 to 70% WR against the FGs in the history of EtG, several do today.  There isn't much innovation or motivation because no new meta has come along in years.

In short, people are just looking for a cheap, easy, and lazy way to grind FGs while skipping the ones that obviously have lots of PC. (and if that's the "meta," then it sure turned out to be a disappointment)

That's just the result of the efficiency studies.  The game has been analyzed down to the rng, probabilities, efficiencies, every move the AI will do in a given set of cards on the field, there is even testing groups to see when it's good to use which decks against Plat.  The game has been over analyzed because there hasn't been anything new in a long time.  That being said, the meta against players is different then meta against Arena, which is different then meta against AI0 through FG.  The meta against the AI, is about maximum grinding efficiency...  which yes does involve skipping the ones the deck doesn't work against.

My final thoughts on this: You still have not created something in-depth with the data to back it, and you call me ignorant, and you say that I'm "gas-lighting." Instead of name calling and slander, how about you do something constructive with your posts?

How about this:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/rainbow-decks/the-brave-malignant-ball-that-could-%28otk%29%28fg%29%28plat%29%28gold%29%2863wr%29%2849em%29/msg1054944/#msg1054944

or

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/trio-quartet/the-brave-gnomes-that-tried%28ai4%29%28fg%29/msg1103279/#msg1103279

or

hundreds of others.

Remember, I only criticized your deck, not you. Cheers~!

However, you did with your final statements.  I wouldn't have put in the finals statements involving ignorance otherwise, on the other hand, I could have been the better person and not responded that way, I edited the post back and forth a few times deciding on if I should keep them...  guess it's too late to remove them...  ah such is the internet...  so for that I apologize.

[Doichimaru]

Keeps,

I see now how I took things out of context. I do agree that there really isn't new meta, and that at the end of the day it's all about the "mindless grind" if you want that fast  . I had honestly felt that your responses were a direct attack towards me, instead of focusing on the deck (idea) itself. Trust me when I say that I had no intention of personally attacking you, and if anything I said even hinted towards such, I do apologize. I see that you have indeed given to this community as much as you could have upon seeing the Brave series you have compiled, and for that much kudos. Alas, the internet is a cruel and unusual tool that some (including yours truly) have yet to figure out the subtleties of which. I had only hinted that the deck looked "gimmicky," because I only saw from first glance instead of the whole picture. I personally prefer the 30~35 cards decks if I can help it (back in the day using SGs unupped FG killer was a turn-off for me in terms of 40+ card decks lol). In short, consider these "hatchets" buried. Cheers~~!  8)

[Keeps]

Cool

Oh and for this variant some new numbers I just did 20 games:

So after refreshing my memory of this deck, I only went for the OTK twice in 20 games.
60% WR right now

Seism 11T W EM
Pretty easy,
Notes: No OTK needed, just 2 kill (Turned into 3 turn kill with)

Decay 15 T W EM
Use a sopa later in the game incase of steal, have deflag ready...   ROL are fractal targets combined with sanct and nova, denial not at risk here.  Expect less RoL but not needed. 

Hecate 11T W EM
Will target ROL with Vampire Juice, if you have SoPa it makes it an easy EM.  NO otk needed, just 2 or 3 turn kill it. Save deflag for shield to make it easy.

Gemini 13T W
Tricky Tricky, Use dials to control end game to prevent momentumed PUed ROLs.  OTK was needed, use deflag for shield break.

Miracle 14T W EM
OTK Needed, longer game, take your time.

Incarnate 14T W EM
Trick the viruses by leading RoLs or Dials into self poping.  Do not start fractal combo until SoPa out.

Octane 7T L
Brutal loss, skip

Scorpio 11T W
Had to move quick, try for 2 turn kill on health bar, incase of perm frost (ended up being 3)
Used dials to block early puffer fishes.

Seism 9T L
Quick Sand on first tower, and no nova or ROL back, had a hand full or SoPa and Fractals and Hopes blocking draw.

Obliterator 13 T W

Pretty easy, nothing to report, No OTK
Paradox 11 T W
Kind of played out where I did 4 attacks to win, Played similiar to original
Old Times

Obliterator 12T W
Used deflag/explosion on diamond shield and miracle to keep alive for a 3 attack win

Decay 12 T W EM
Used sundials as early steal bate, before putting SoPa, SoPa was never stolen
went for 3 turn kill against health bar.  Real easy

Akebono 9 T L
Early Sofo, wasn't certain of targetting order
did dial, dial, then third turn dial sanctuary...  targetted dial
Yes, sanctuary in play to protect against Blackhole.
Thought I was in good shape, then chimera...

Akebono 8 T L
Chimera again,  once around 60 health, should have used miracle, but probably wouldn't have helped
Keep tabs on counting damage may lead to victory.

Fire Queen 14T W
Constant picking off of RoL means have SoPA and fractal out...
Expect a few for RoLs to get picked, count the damage to heal...  in this case, I PCed one of the Feral Bonds
To overwhelm.

Seism 7T L
Late Fractals and Heavy QS makes for a quick loss.

Obliterator 13T L
Used the targetting priority trick to use dials and pc buffer against SoPa
However, diamond shield was in play, explosion at the bottom of the deck never came.
Hope was useless against a bunch of momentumed burried shriekers

Osiris 13T L
Almost had him, but was rushed into attacking early and overtook

Neptune 15T L
I screwed up, I targeted an early Perm frost shield should have held the explosion for the inundation. 

[CrockettRocket]

Phew. That was a lot of reading. I'll use the quote tool myself upon this request.

I edited the post back and forth a few times deciding on if I should keep them...  guess it's too late to remove them...  ah such is the internet...

Go ahead and quote me on this. "If you can edit, then you can delete" "If you don't know wether or not to keep something, ask someone else that's a bystander, also known as a person not in your intended audience."

The posts bring about negativity to the thread, and they didn't deserve to be in general discussion or anything like that, but maybe PMs. They did contribute a little bit to the thread, so I ask that you please edit or modify the posts and at the end of each of the posts just put "edited out the negativity. If the conversation doesn't make sense anymore, it's because I edited out the negativity. Skip to where it does make sense for you." Go ahead and quote that if you wish at the bottom of the posts. It's never too late to rid the negativity away.

Please edit, or delete. If further comments bring about negativity as a response to this, this will be deleted. I do intend to keep to these morals, I'm not of a stature above anyone else.

[dawn to dusk]

Fractal is more efficient than mitosis for SoPa and SoBr purposes so many of the decks used fractal.

Doesn't matter though...  we haven't had new cards in a year and a half now.  The base themes have all been explored by now, there is nothing new, and even then most of the base themes behind certain combos were around a long time before those base themes.   Personal tweaking is all that's really now until we can get some new cards or a change in the rules forcing us to think differently.  It's like mono-darkness or mono-death...  When I first played I thought it was the most awesome thing I came up with...  except it was made 100 times before and 100 times after...  the idea doesn't matter anymore...  7 billion people on this planet, someone has had your ideas...  the difference is what you do with these ideas.   Tweak your deck to perfection...  actuate, that's the difference in this world, and in this game.

I can think of 3 or 4 decks that haven't been explored. Off the top of my head, thorn carapace vulture afla combo & oty fog combo.

If I had more time, I could think of more

[qianxiaoping]

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 77b 77e 77e 77e 77e 77i 77i 7am 7am 7ee 7ee 7hi 7hi 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 80i 80i 80i 80i 8pn

I use this deck  which is evolved from yours.It is good ，but I need some advises.