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Nume

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg157671#msg157671
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2010, 04:25:45 am »
Heh I will say that new version pretty much pwns Octane. I took out miracle/jade shield and replaced with entropy pendelums, but other than that used same. I started with just 1 entropy pendelum which was immediately destroyed, and still easily won :P.

(http://imageplay.net/)

Fallower

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg157684#msg157684
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2010, 04:51:59 am »
With an EM too. O_O
But isn't it hard to draw what you want without hourglasses? There are so many cards in this deck. :o And it uses supernovas too...*faints*

This deck looks interesting anyhow. Good luck with it. :D

Sal

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg157706#msg157706
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2010, 05:51:20 am »
With an EM too. O_O
But isn't it hard to draw what you want without hourglasses? There are so many cards in this deck. :o And it uses supernovas too...*faints*

This deck looks interesting anyhow. Good luck with it. :D
40 isn´t that much. Anything smaller and you risk decking out unless you squeeze in another spectre (really don´t recomment it).The 40 card version is currently the most stable one and really doesn´t feel as bulky as it might look.
The multiple copies of the cards you want to draw make up for the missing hourglass in terms of consistency. Although i tried a few different versions with Hourglasses most of the time they either sit in my hand way too long and when i finally can play them i usually can just afford to draw 3 cards tops in order to not deck myself.Overall they are not worth it for me and i worked around it.Remember the Quantum base in that deck is very low. It is supposed to play everything after a Nova or Two and i really don´t want to change that just to play Hourglasses.

Sal, I would assume you've thought of Steam Machine as an alternative to the Spectres as it'd save you some Water quanta (Except for the initial cost of course, but it's not all that much really) and it's damage does shoot up faster than a Spectre.

I guess it's just preference, but I'd prefer the Machine for a number of reasons, especially how you can play it without quint in many cases.
I´ve tried Steam Machine , Golem and Spectre.
The main problem i had with Steam Mashine was that i couldn´t keep it up (the Tower count is absolute minimum, most of the time you would need a Nova to keep it up).
I prefer Golem or Spectre in this deck cause the attack is stable and i don´t have to worry about the Quanta for both.
Spectres are a little cheaper to play and start with 3 toughness (they can ignore stolen shields) and also they use unused Lifequanta (usually just have to wait for a quint).
The problem with golem is that it potentially blocks you from re-playing a destroyed Buckler.
But i would still prefer the Golem over the Steam Machine in this deck. Like i said i tried all 3 and spectres seem to work out best overall.
The main reason for this is the very low Tower count the deck is designed around.You would have to add a couple more Towers if you want to play Steam Machine in this (would pretty much take away the main strength of the deck).

Good work, Sal.  I hadn't tried 3 mind flayers--was worried there would be too much competition for :water (growth vs casting mind flayers) and :aether (need to quint the spectres and using the flayers.)  Is there an order you like to play them in?  Mind flayers first or spectres?

I have have also tried to work in the PAs--too many times the shield gets exploded or even worse--stolen.

Are you having any luck with bonewalls yet?  That buckler is your worst enemy once the skeletons start piling up....

Also, how many times do you deck out?  When with 2 spectres, if they come late in the deck, that leaves a lot of ground to cover in just a few turns.
It really depends on the God you are facing. Against Osiris/Graviton for example you want to rush Mindflayers. While playing against Octane you will most likly not need them.
Overall i would suggest to play Flayers first , then Deamons if needed and once everything is under control finish with Spectres (thats how i usually play it).

I´ve played around 120 games completly without PA and just 3 copies of Buckler. You don´t really need it, but it makes things easier.If you want to Squeeze in Hourglasses etc then cut the PA´s. The PA´s are currently mainly "tests" to increase problematic matches (Eternal Phoenix, Rainbow, Dream Catcher).If you don´t like em just replace them.

The Bonewall problem is just occuring against Morte now once in a while when you draw your Pulvie too late.When you got enough Antimatters out and see you run low on cards destroy your Buckler to prevent the Bonewall from growing.Will most likly cost you the EM but will ensure you won´t deck out.

Incarnate is easily beaten with Antimattered Vamps now.

Decking out is rarly a problem. Just play your creatures wisely and wait for quints if you have to.
The overall damageoutput is high enough to beat miracle (by forcing it to play 4-5 miracles untill the AI dies . Pulvy the light towers while you are at it).3 Flayers, 2 Pulvies,2 Deamons,2 Spectres in the deck. Unless you horribly waste your creatures decking out shouldn´t be a problem at all.

Heh I will say that new version pretty much pwns Octane. I took out miracle/jade shield and replaced with entropy pendelums, but other than that used same. I started with just 1 entropy pendelum which was immediately destroyed, and still easily won :P.

(http://imageplay.net/)
Glad it worked out for you. Like i said mass Antimatter is giving you a huge boost against many gods.Of course you pay the price against Divine Glory etc. but at least a good third of the other gods are way easier to beat with that strategy and its much less likly you randomly die to one of the "easier" gods.

-----

The decks main strength is that it can opperate of a single (!) Quantum Tower without too many problems.After 2 Novas you should be able to play your complete hand most of the time (if you have to). Don´t get greedy and wait for Quints if you have to - never waste your Spectres, keep em in your hand untill you absolutly have to play them if you have to.When you got 2 Mindflayers in your hand early you can try to play one (depends on the god you are facing), the AI doesn´t seem to see them as much of a threat and targets em late.

In the end it all comes down to the version you are playing.Feel free to adjust the list to your needs (add hourglass , SoGs etc).

I reccoment using the 4.0 version (-> http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10966.msg165836#msg165836 ). The other one was just to let you know i´m still working on it and hasn´t been tested as much yet (as long as i´m still switching cards left and right).

Offline jmdtTopic starter

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg157811#msg157811
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2010, 02:19:45 pm »
With steam machines, you will chew up valuable fire quanta needed to get out the bucklers.  Running multiple machines on 2 :fire per turn is almost impossible and there are turns were they skip growing due to insufficient quanta.  The buckler's importance makes steam machines and lava destrorers a no go, so spectres are the next best option as there is no :life used and little :water.

I haven't tried it Sal, but the new version has promise.  The antimatter take much of the heavy lifting away from the maxwells/buckler and allow you to neutralize critters until the combo materializes.  I just wonder if that's a lot of entropy quanta to ask from QT's

Sal

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg157844#msg157844
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2010, 04:09:10 pm »
I know its quite a lot  :entropy , i just got sick of randomly loosing matches that i am supposed to win with version 4.0(especially Graviton, Ferox, FFQ,Gemini).They definatly buy enough time along with the Mindflayers.

5 is pretty much overkill also running 4 Bucklers guarantees dead cards in you hand, the numbers don´t feel right.I just wanted to let you know i´m still working on this.

I smell a major breakthrough! Thanks a lot to Nume who gave me the idea with his post. Was tinkering with this for a while but forgot about Pendulums.

edit: there we go, one of the first versions at a "complete different" non-rainbow attempt at this idea.

Code: [Select]
6tt 6tt 6tt 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 6u7 6u7 7dl 7dl 7dl 7dl 7dm 7f2 7f2 7t9 7t9 7ta 7ta 7td 7td 7td 7td 7td 7td 7um 7um 7um 7um 7um 7umfirst ? = 2x Fire Pendulum
second ? = 6x Dark Pendulum

This is by no means ready to grinds fgs yet.I just wanted to share the general idea.Been trying this for a while but somehow forgot that Pendulums exist.




-----

This leads to a slight update in the Rainbow list :

Maxwells Buckler v.4.1
Code: [Select]
5if 5if 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6tt 6tt 6tt 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 77f 77f 7ah 7ah 7dl 7dl 7dl 80h 80h 80h 80h 81q 81q? = Aether Pendulum

BurnOne

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg157961#msg157961
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2010, 09:02:46 pm »
Code: [Select]
5if 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6ts 6ts 6tt 6tt 6tt 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 77f 77f 7ah 7ah 7ah 7dl 7dl 7dl 7q5 7q5 7q5 80h 80h 80h 80h
Have you thought about replacing the amethyst Towers with fire or water pendulums Jmdt?
Edit: Especially for Sals 3 minds Flayers water pendulums would be interesting.

Sal

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg157991#msg157991
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2010, 09:45:23 pm »
ehm i´ve just posted that ^^

 :water is no problem,  :aether however is. thats pretty much why i went for Aether Pendulums.

Offline jmdtTopic starter

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg157996#msg157996
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2010, 09:50:13 pm »
I must investigate these pendulums.

Sal

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg158024#msg158024
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2010, 10:50:08 pm »
I´m very close to a major breakthrough thanks to those Pendulums.Got a very nifty idea.Gonna post a list once it is enjoyable to play.

edit -> Not 100% happy with it but there you go :

Next Generation Buckler v 1.0
Code: [Select]
52n 52n 5if 5if 6tt 6tt 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 6u7 77i 7ah 7ah 7dl 7dl 7dl 7dl 7i6 7ta 7tb 80h 80h 80h 80h 81q 81q 81q 81q?=4xAether Pendulum,1xWater Pendulum
(Do not use this against FG´s yet - its way to unstable as it is)

The basic idea is that you find 2 Novas and then play a PA´d Buckler.
The killing options are Quinted Spectres (fueled by Novas exlusivly) and the Bonewall/Eclipse combo you hopefully draw in time.
I was toying around with Vampires to go along with Eclipse to help out healing/damaging, but i have to remain close to 30 cards so i don´t hurt the Nova thing too much.
I highly suggest trying this at the trainer before you actually build this.

current flaws :
-Can be very unstable since you HAVE to draw Novas early no matter what.
-Due to the nature of this deck Divine Glory,Dark Matter and Decay should be dodged.
-sometimes it takes a while till you find your 2nd Nova (you really need)
-no permanent control in this yet
-it is likly you have to discard early
-Mindflayer slightly collide with Spectres

I guess that there are too many things going on in the current version so there is almost no focus - thus the deck as it is is VERY unstable.Guess i have to cut out a couple things like Boneyard + Eclipse and try to focus.

I really like the basic idea of playing everything after Novas, but i just can´t come up with a "playable" deck for it.

Offline Boingo

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg158158#msg158158
« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2010, 03:00:53 am »
Sal--LOLZ: You went :darkness (vampires/steal) and I went :light (sundials). 

A few reasons behind this rework of v4.0:
=The unused quanta in the rainbow version were bugging me
=The size constraints of the deck made hourglasses seem necessary (though costly) if you were to add any more cards
=With only 2 antimatters in the deck, you need to draw them early or take a beating waiting for them
=A stolen/destroyed shield makes for a very bad day

The solution was to add:
Sundials: :light :time were untapped, they're cheap, they stall the attack, they speed your draw
Protect artifact: there's room for these with the added drawing power, the buckler now has a chance to stay put

The deck is big, but the redundancy of the needed cards + sundials helps immensely.  Not sure if the added cards are just bloat or if they really do help.  Your thoughts are appreciated.

Code: [Select]
5if 5if 5if 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6ts 6ts 6tt 6tt 6tt 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 77f 77f 77i 77i 7ah 7ah 7ah 7dl 7dl 7dl 80h 80h 80h 80h
And while this doesn't prove anything, it was nice to nearly EM Dream Catcher (quinted physalia at the end of the match poisoned me): (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd87408/DCsoClose)
Bring back Holy Cow!

Fallower

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg158227#msg158227
« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2010, 05:32:12 am »
Sundials don't speed your draw... They just give you back the card you would've gotten if the sundials weren't there. Plus they are vulnerable to cc... and they stop opponent creatures from getting hit by buckler. When I saw this I went O_O HUGGEEEEE WITHOUT DRAWWWW...

But anyway Sal, I think you're going the right direction by changing it. Quantum towers aren't actually needed so badly... fire bucklers are cheap. :D

Sal

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Re: Maxwell's Silver...Buckler https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10966.msg158294#msg158294
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2010, 10:24:47 am »
Well currently its just an experiment. (a very Score/E intense experiment^^)
Guess i should go back to the roots instead of wasting time for things that don´t work out.

The idea or playing things just with Nova is great, but this just isn´t the right shell for it.

 

anything
blarg: