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Vreely

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Mummy/Hope Rainbow FG killer (v1.21) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4091.msg39819#msg39819
« on: March 17, 2010, 05:12:22 pm »
Deck Helper comment: 
This deck was posted before the 1.32 game update and as a result may work very differently now.  Use at your own risk.

In anticipation of the Mummy/Pharoah/Hope cards, I'll throw my play around deck idea out there.   I am still tweaking around with it to get better consistency, but the basic idea is solid.  The deck has already morphed quite a bit from my original post (shown below).  I was having a problem staying alive in the early game, so modifications were made from my original build.   If you would like to see where I started, its the next deck listed here (in this same post).

The idea is to use both the Hope shield, and the Mummy.   The mummy replaces the Oty's that are so prevalent in most rainbows.  The Hope shield is an extremely powerful addition for keeping you alive against many of the FGs.   To do this, the non-upped queeny is used, and the Anubis is leveraged to protect both your flies and your scarabs.

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5oj 5oj 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 71d 749 749 77i 7am 7ba 7ba 7ba 7ba 7do 7gr 7gv 7k2 7k4 7k4 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q7 7q7 7q8 80d 80h 80h 8ps


The deck sets up very slow, so the Hourglass is critical, and is much thrown in for early game defense.   Sundial's are on old standby.  I reduced them to the non-upped version in this build since I also added a Miracle.   Non-upped SDs enable me to cast the Miracle quicker, and often that is critical.   Shards of Gratitude are yet another early game life-saver, and also are very useful as a way to counteract the poison from Morte & Scorpio.   It still uses a single Feral Bond to help with EM victories, and also is powerful life generation when you get the queen/pharaoh going.   

For shields, it uses 2 Grav shields to help with early game biggies, and they fit really well since you are typically not using your gravity quanta until later in the game.  It has a single Phase Shield to help against Paradox and Fire Queen, and then a pair of Hope shields, which prove to be your closer.   

Finally, a pair of defensive creatures with the Octopus and the Ulitharid are very key, and very useful when you are playing with Anubis.   Octopus will stall the queen from generating, and will hold off momentum.  Ulitharid can remove growth & momentum, as well as a deadly steal mutate or something like that.  Once I decided to play with 2 Elite Anubis, it was a no-brainer to throw these guys in, especially with the water quanta lying around in a pool just waiting for somebody to drink some.

Most rainbow decks rely solely on Quantum Towers.  I found I need extra time quanta, even with the mark.  For this reason, it has 3 Time Towers to aid in getting the Anubis out sooner.  Since the deck is one huge combo, the hourglass draw-through is critical.  The extra time helps with that, and finally, when the scarabs start to spill out of the Pharaoh, even more time is needed.  You may think you can get away without these 3 Time Towers, but don't kid yourself.   Leave them in.

Why the Quints when I have Anubis?   There are more than a couple FGs that will kill the Anubis immediately when you cast him.  Since he is vital, you need to immortalize him immediately.  I tried with only 1 quint, but since its too critical to not have as one of the last 5 cards, I had to throw in a second.

I do use a single Protect Artifact.  Believe it or not, even with the 50 card deck, you can find yourself at the bottom very quickly.  You are forced to dig like mad in order to get Eternity out and the Mummy in hand.  The protect will keep your Eternity in play, use it on nothing else.

I will update with FG notes when I get more games in with the same build.  ;)  I gotta stop tweaking.  I am having fun with the new cards though, and look forward to playing in more than just the trainer.


Original Build:

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52n 5oj 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 71d 77f 77i 77i 7am 7am 7do 7gr 7gv 7k4 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q7 7q7 7q8 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 80d 80h 80h 8ps


Its a bit like a deck Xinef posted in the "In Development->Pharaoh" section in that it uses sundials to stay alive early and it also needs extra time towers.  Its funny that we both came to that same conclusion.   My shield/life setup is completely different.   Once you have Anubis in the deck, you may as well leverage it.  So I threw in an Octopus, a Mind Flayer, and a Firefly Queen.   All 3 invaluable to defense.   I opted for sundials for early defense and bonds over SoGs.  (fire queen helps bond also)

I still think its too tower light, shield light, and the draw through is extremely critical as there are many cards that need to combo together.   In draws where I don't get enough early towers, or I don't get an early hourglass, then I have to get lucky.  Otherwise, the deck is rock solid.   Tweaking needs to happen so the draws are less critical.

Here is one of my games against Gemini that illustrates how everything is used together.  Anubis protects all the flies and scarabs from his Lobo, Hope is a solid shield, and Octopus slowed down those Momentumed massive dragons you see on screen.   I was congealing it every turn so when he finally did twin it, I had 4 turns of reprieve before I started getting hit with the remaining 3.  (I actually forgot I had the flayer out there... *smack*)  You can also see that I didn't even need to use 3 of my Sundials.
(http://www.screenshotdumpster.com/)

I only have stats for 20 games or so, and I keep messing around with ratios, but with this basic idea I think a very solid FG-killer can be made that actually doesn't use Oty.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 03:15:37 am by willng3 »

Offline Baily18

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Re: Mummy/Hope Rainbow FG killer (v1.21) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4091.msg39833#msg39833
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 05:37:13 pm »
Hmmm... seems very interesting. can you list out the stats you have?

Vreely

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Re: Mummy/Hope Rainbow FG killer (v1.21) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4091.msg39843#msg39843
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 06:01:50 pm »
Here is what I have so far, but they are not stable statistics since I have been changing cards every couple of games.   Things I have been changing are:
  • I flip back and forth on using the boneyard.
  • I add a 2nd phase shield sometimes.
  • I sometimes take out the Pulvy.
  • I often fit in a 4th hourglass.
  • I put the druid in sometimes for harder hitting creatures
  • A couple games had a 4th Time Tower when I was frustrated on time quanta.
  • A few of my early games I only had 1 Anubis.  2 is clearly better.
  • I had a steal in there off and on.
I combine all these changes and always keep it below 42, with an attempt to get to 40 cards.   I will update the lead post when I do settle on a variant.

Here is what I have so far:

Gemini:  2/2   This seems to be easy if you live through the early rush.  SDs help here.
Morte:  1/2    I lost the poison race on my loss.
Scorpio 1/1   I won the poison race here.
Divine Glory 1/1   I am not used to being competitive here.  Hope pulled it out for me.
Hermes  0/2  He was explosion heavy in both games and crippled my QTs to the point where I did not recover.
Seism 1/2  Once game I got the PA, another I didn't.
Ferox 2/2  Again... live through the rush and its your.  A 2nd Phase Shield is a better build for this FG.  I think I had this in one of my games.   Love the Firestorm in this one.
Octane 0/1   Its one of the reasons I put the pulvy in.   The little jerk is winnable if you get this out early.
Incarnate:  1/1   This was one of the Pulvy build games where I was able to destroy his graveyards.
Chaos Lord:  1/2  He got an early steal mutate... Arghhh!!
Fire Queen:  1/3  (when balanced right, the deck should easily do better than this)
Paradox:  2/2   Firestorm is your friend.

Total:   13/21   (62%)

As I said, this is not even valid stats, so I'm not claiming anything yet.  It does prove that it CAN work though.

Laxaria

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Re: Mummy/Hope Rainbow FG killer (v1.21) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4091.msg40125#msg40125
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2010, 01:31:13 am »
This is actually an interesting deck. I think it needs a bit of tweaking, but I think I can see myself using it in the near future. :D

Vreely

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Re: Mummy/Hope Rainbow FG killer (v1.21) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4091.msg40423#msg40423
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2010, 05:07:37 pm »
I updated the OP since I have drastically changed my original build after doing neverending tweaking.   Its starting to settle down, and I will add FG notes when I start to get more games in with a single variation.

Laxaria

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Re: Mummy/Hope Rainbow FG killer (v1.21) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4091.msg40812#msg40812
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2010, 03:25:12 am »
Quote
It still uses a single Feral Bond to help with EM victories, and also is powerful life generation when you get the queen/pharaoh going.   
Would it not be better to take out Miracle for another Feral, or just take out either Feral or Miracle to shave off a card? There is quite an overlap of healing here, which wouldn't all that be a problem with a large hope shield as a result of lightflies, would it? It feels a bit fat to me, that's all.

Edit: Have you tried the Reverse Time card? It would help you get a pharoah out earlier if you draw it instead of Eternity, and it's low cheap cost can help stop a deadly threat that your opponent might have (Notable against Chaos Lord, Spectres/Fire Spirits, etc). Of course it is one time use, but having that card might help get the pharoah out faster if you don't draw an eternity? Just a thought, that's all.

Narya

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Re: Mummy/Hope Rainbow FG killer (v1.21) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4091.msg40813#msg40813
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2010, 03:25:15 am »
Vreely, I am going to do extensive testing with this deck. I really, really like the looks of it. I will keep track of my stats using elements stats, and post on this thread. I really, really like the feel of this deck over standard rainblow.

Statistics Link (1.21) http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=3794669569 (current win%: 29 games: 9 Updated 00:27 3/19/10)

Individual Game Notes ( Updated 00:27 3/19/10 )

Game 1 - Octane - L
Notes: Bad Starting hand, 1 QT only. Didn't Draw a second.

Game 2 - Chaos Lord - L
Notes: Never saw an hourglass in 7-8 turns. Never saw a shield.

Game 3 - Rainbow - L
Notes: Pulled a rainbow and god-drew.

Game 4 - Scorpio - L
Got a ridiculous start, not liking my luck so far.

Game 5 - Divine Glory - L
Pulled a typical DG, hey look explode explode explode

Game 6 - Scorpio - W - EM
Notes: Gravity Shield was epic, permafrost shield is a BITCH, but I still managed to hold on and win.

Game 7 - Miracle - L
I know, who loses to miracle. But the deck took a crap on me, 1 tower, all I saw.

Game 8 - Elidnis - W - EM
I went all HULK SMASH on her ass. Deck worked perfectly.

Game 9 - Miracle - W - EM
Much better. Actually drew some towers.


Offline Xinef

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Re: Mummy/Hope Rainbow FG killer (v1.21) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4091.msg41034#msg41034
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2010, 03:52:50 pm »
Don't you have a hard time against FG with a lot of permanent destruction with only 1 PA?
You need eternity to start the scarab combo, and you need PA to play eternity against these gods, right? So don't you feel it might get bad if you get that mummy and eternity early, but PA is at the bottom?

I was just wondering... in my version I use 2 eternities and 3 PA, which makes it also more reliable against seism, and still my current version is at 40 cards. Normally I use 1 PA on eternity, 1 on shield and the last one can be used on SoG/Bond, or even use 2 on SoGs, works nice against octane.

Right now I am tweaking my version to speed up the combo and to use the pharaohs ability to the maximal extent (he can functionally replace FFQ (creature generation), oty (devour/creature control) and druid (damage source, generates growing creatures))... I even put in a single momentum, so that nasty shields do not hurt my quinted pharaoh... it even works against fire shields (use 1 sundial or rewind a scarab with eternity, so that they never attack with 1 hp).

I was trying with aflatoxine (with a lot of SoGs and a permafrost works really nice) but with no permanent control it made fights against FG with feral bonds a loooong stall... I had to eat 23 malignant cells in one turn to stop this healing ;)
Maybe if I take that new card, effect of butterfly... and unupgraded mummies, because I need a scarab with 2 attack...

Anyway I wonder if I could speed up the combo enough to replace SoGs with ferals, so that I could get masteries with my version... seems quite incapable of masteries, unless I can eat every creature and opponent has no weapon.

Anyway I found out that without anubises it can also work. Quint pharaohs only, and FG will waste all his creature control spells on the first few scarabs... though renewable creature control (otys, eagle eyes, lobo) are a bit harder to deal with, the trick with rewinding a few scarabs and playing them all at once works well, but needs a lot time quanta - another reason to add time pillars even without anubises. And it really helps with early eternity, so I prefer 2 eternities rather than one and a rewind. I don't feel though like taking a flying weapon and playing two eternities - I only need one as early as possible, and we have enough creature control already.

Though I have very little time to test my version, because I spend so much time on forums and I also need to work a bit on my 'real game' stack of cards... right now 1 eternity and 1 SoG, and 15 cards upgraded... so I'll need a bit more when mummies/pharaohs are there.

As a side note I've been thinking about some trio decks with pharaoh, these could be faster to set up... but clearly will have some weaknesses... will need to PA that eternity, so maybe a nova will be needed... and quints are also necessary... hard choice making it a nova+ :time + :death + :gravity or something like that... (I know it would be still considered a rainbow), maybe taking more :time and a pharaoh instead of mummy would allow a nova+ :time + :gravity deck, that could be a viable option.
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Offline Baily18

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Re: Mummy/Hope Rainbow FG killer (v1.21) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4091.msg41512#msg41512
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2010, 02:27:46 pm »
If electrum hourglasses are going to cost 4 instead of 3, you may want to take out 1 Quantum tower and put in 1-2 Time towers?

 

anything
blarg: