ivalmian's Rainbow SpeedDeck (kills almost all FG with elem master for v1.17+)

[Clathius]

Vreely:

Have you considered running with just 2 Quintessence and then put the Druid back in?    Puppy in his thread makes the argument that you can run with just 2 if you are careful about who you use it on depending on the FG you are facing.

[ivalmian]

You have removed all permanent control from the deck? That's brave... but I really think there should be at least one card (Steal, Pulverizer, Druid) that can deal with a permanent. Even if it doesn't affect your win rate that much, it will allow you to win matches much quicker and create greater revenue.

i think you can remove steal but removing druid will at LEAST slow you down so much that you won't be able to win enough.. You may try a 41 card deck with dunsial added on top of the 40 card deck... changing steal to octopus might work.. although I dislike the idea...

[Vreely]

Vreely:

Have you considered running with just 2 Quintessence and then put the Druid back in?    Puppy in his thread makes the argument that you can run with just 2 if you are careful about who you use it on depending on the FG you are facing.

I actually tried about 30 games with only 2 quints.  The primary problem is that this is a 40 card deck, Puppy's is less.  It is simply too crucial to match a quint and an Oty as soon as possible, and removing a quint tended to create the match too late for when I needed it.

You have removed all permanent control from the deck? That's brave... but I really think there should be at least one card (Steal, Pulverizer, Druid) that can deal with a permanent. Even if it doesn't affect your win rate that much, it will allow you to win matches much quicker and create greater revenue.

Also speaking to Ivalmian's point although not quoted:  Yes.  I alluded to this.  The deck is much slower without the druid.    However, I was going for win rate, not win rate per hour, which is harder to measure.  I would concede the point that this deck likely wins less cash per hour as the previous version.

I think if I can fit a pulvy w/ animate into the deck it would speed it up greatly.  I'm going to try that next, although I have to play around a bit to figure out how to fit it in without getting it too big.

[ivalmian]

Vreely:

Have you considered running with just 2 Quintessence and then put the Druid back in?    Puppy in his thread makes the argument that you can run with just 2 if you are careful about who you use it on depending on the FG you are facing.

I actually tried about 30 games with only 2 quints.  The primary problem is that this is a 40 card deck, Puppy's is less.  It is simply too crucial to match a quint and an Oty as soon as possible, and removing a quint tended to create the match too late for when I needed it.

You have removed all permanent control from the deck? That's brave... but I really think there should be at least one card (Steal, Pulverizer, Druid) that can deal with a permanent. Even if it doesn't affect your win rate that much, it will allow you to win matches much quicker and create greater revenue.

Yes.  I alluded to this.  The deck is much slower without the druid.    However, I was going for win rate, not win rate per hour, which is harder to measure.  I would concede the point that this deck likely wins less cash per hour as the previous version.

hm.. you should try 5sd with 41 cards.. (it would take me like 2 weeks to do 100 games i just don't have the time )

[CelestrialDreamer]

Okay
i did 32 games in 2 days with Vreely's deck
i used unupgraded boneyard and replaced 1 PA with ImprovedSteal
my win rate was EXACTLY 50%, counting all Gods(i.e. 16/32)
yup, i did not run away from DG and Rainbow
i guess the rate is low compared with u guys since i am newb around here

-i lost all 1-pillar game except one, but those were against the hardest gods, so i cant say if 1-pillar hurts a lot or not.
-overall the result is satisfactory for me, but i have to test for more

[Irkalia]

For those keeping stats - could you record the average time it takes you to beat the fg too? It's a little extra work I know, but only takes a few seconds and I think it'd be useful in developing faster rainbows.

[MrBlonde]

Played 33 games with Vreely's 5 SD, Arctic Octopus deck and i gotta say i'm loving it. I've mainly run Ivalmian and Vreely's other decks prior to this (tried Puppy's but i really suck with his deck). I do have one difference though, i kept the fallen druid so my deck is 41 cards.

Was 21-12 (60.6%) with it today although not against the toughest lineup i've faced. Small sample size but i just like the feel to this deck better. Some of the games i won i feel i would have lost with my other deck due to the Arctic Octopus allowing extra creature control. Hermes and Obliterator are pretty much insta-losses though without a steal. Once either gets a fire shield or pulvy up you really have no chance. Oddly enough just like Vreely i've done better against Seism although i now only have 1 protect.

Time-wise i think it's about the same although i have had two games drag out pretty long against FQ and Seism due to me winning games i usually would have lost. FQ i started off with no towers in the first 4 turns and against Seism i didn't get my protect til i had 11 cards left and had to battle it out with 3 towers + limited quanta and would have decked out if not for him rewinding my creatures for 4-5 turns on my last turn. Those two games turned out to be much longer then usual for me. Beyond that i haven't found it any quicker or slower.

Chaos Lord  (2-1)
Dark Matter (1-2)
Destiny (2-0)
Elidnis (1-0)
Ferox (1-0)
Fire Queen (2-1)
Hermes (0-2)
Incarnate (2-0)
Miracle (4-0)
Morte (2-2)
Obliterator (0-1)
Paradox (1-0)
Rainbow (0-1)
Scorpio (0-2)
Seism (3-0)

[Jangoo]

Vreely, just get that freakin 12th Tower in there already!

My version of the deck is running on 12 Towers eversince and the liberty this grants in quanta and modding is great.
5 sundials you say? Now if that's the case why dont you finally add the 12th Tower AND a fifth hourglass which will complete the buffer-cards. Embedding that extra Squid and Pulvy thus making it a 44 something deck wont be the problem then.

As for Pulvy: Normally you wouldn't bother to make it fly. You would just Play Pulvy first and keep Eternity until the very end.

Squid + Druid: Have you considered using the Elf instead of th Duid? It is kind of a middle ground between those two. I couldn't stand the fact to have Miracles blessed drags, Hermes' 17/11 Destroyer or even Geminis TUed fleet of 9/30 drags on the other side and not be able to do anything about it ...

[Vreely]

For those keeping stats - could you record the average time it takes you to beat the fg too? It's a little extra work I know, but only takes a few seconds and I think it'd be useful in developing faster rainbows.

That would be impossible for me.  I play most of my games at work, but rarely do I play a continuous game start to stop without getting interrupted.   As you state, the most important stat is cash per hour, but unless you play with a chess clock in front of you, its impossible to do in my situation.

[Vreely]

Vreely, just get that freakin 12th Tower in there already!

My version of the deck is running on 12 Towers eversince and the liberty this grants in quanta and modding is great.
5 sundials you say? Now if that's the case why dont you finally add the 12th Tower AND a fifth hourglass which will complete the buffer-cards. Embedding that extra Squid and Pulvy thus making it a 44 something deck wont be the problem then.

As for Pulvy: Normally you wouldn't bother to make it fly. You would just Play Pulvy first and keep Eternity until the very end.

Squid + Druid: Have you considered using the Elf instead of th Duid? It is kind of a middle ground between those two. I couldn't stand the fact to have Miracles blessed drags, Hermes' 17/11 Destroyer or even Geminis TUed fleet of 9/30 drags on the other side and not be able to do anything about it ...

On the 12th tower.  I agree.  I am not sure what you are suggesting.  Adding it into my original deck?  This last posted deck has 12 QTs in it (see Change #3 in the notes), and every deck I have tried since that one has had 12 QTs.

On the Pulvy.  So I have not tested 100 games with it, but I have tried some without flying it.  The problem is that I use Ivalmian's aggressive draw technique, and with that, in about a third the games at least I am getting the Pulvy only between 1 & 3 turns before I have to play the Eternity.  For now, it remains on my 'would be nice to have" list, but I have not yet had a good deck build that feels right while using it.

On expanding over 40 cards:  Every time I try this in short experiments I recognize one common thing.  I lose consistency.  Its harder to get that Fire Storm when you need it against Incarnate or FQ, its harder to get the FB going against Scorpio to counter poison, etc.   Ivalmian suggested that once you pass the 40 card mark, one really needs to consider adding another copy of some of these key cards.  I agree with him   Then you need more shields so they come at the right time, and everything snowballs.  I really would actually like to lower the card count to 38 or 39 for this very reason, but its difficult to do and keep the ratios right.

I may try MrBlonde's suggestion and add the druid back in to make it a 41 card deck.  It certainly would speed up some of the longer games.

[Clathius]

The thing about the druid I don't like is that it is really dangerous to use it offensively.  You are taking quite the gamble because the new creature could be too big for your Oty to eat and end up with a nasty mutation that shuts you down.   After being burned one too many times, I no longer use the druid offensively unless I have an eternity to back me up.  So if the point of the Druid is to speed up the game via mutated skeletons or fireflies, why not just cut out the middle man and add a creature with growth?  lava golem or forest spirit?   

On the flip side, if you use the elf, 50% of the time you get a 5/5 mutation which is an improvement from a 2/2 skeleton and can be used offensively with far more reliability.

[MrBlonde]

I agree it is dangerous to use your Druid offensively but sometimes you just need to take that chance and basically you only do it unless you absolutely have to. Really it's only dangerous against a few of the FG's (Chaos Lord, Rainbow). Most of the time i use it the FG can't even use the special ability. I honestly think it would cost me more games using a elf due to the fact that i use him to mutate my own troops 90% of the time.