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Offline kaempfer13Topic starter

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Brave denialbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52340.msg1109206#msg1109206
« on: November 12, 2013, 08:38:57 pm »
When I played against decks that use shard of bravery excessively, I often was annoyed by the fact that I couldnt pay the quanta for the newly drawn cards yet. This deck is supposed to exploit that effect; not only does the opponent draw cards that he wont be able to play, but also you draw cards that allow a quicker quantalockdown.
While this deck is mostly a quantadenialdeck, it feels more like a controlbow, since it doesnt achieve the lockdown as quickly as other decks, but therefore has better posibilities to cope with a rather late quantalockdown.
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Deck import code : [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u5 6u5 71b 74f 74f 74f 74f 77j 77j 77j 7ap 7ap 7ap 7dm 7do 7do 7do 7ds 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7gq 7gr 7hi 7k6 7n1 7q4 7q5 7q5 7q5 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t9 7ta 80i 8po

Before you ask: The sanctuary does not stop SoB from working (unless it gets stolen, which you have to avoid by any means).
If the opponent doesnt play cards anymore SoB acts like a precognition, since the opponent doesnt draw additional cards, but you get 1.
Suggested areas of play: PVP2 and silver/gold arena; its totally untested there, but those are the areas where this type of deck is supposed to be strong. In the trainer I tested this deck against lvl 60 decks (~60% win rate) and false gods (~28+% win rate which is quite impressive for a denialbow I believe)
You can tweak this deck however you like (more pillars, denial cards CC, PC, poseidon instead of discord or whatever you like), but this is the version that worked best for me so far.
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Offline Keeps

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Re: Brave denialbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52340.msg1109226#msg1109226
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 12:20:26 am »
Silver
jammed hand meant wasting card, poison deck had 28 poison counters on me before i could even begin denial (Lose)

mono darkness with one hp took 4 turns before I could deal that 1 hp of damage (Win)

mono death with 72hp, denial was pointless, it out rushed me so fast it rediculous (Loss)

firefly queen deck with 40hp, early santuary prevented denial, hope eventually caused lock down. (Loss)

I give up, it's too slow.  The braveries really don't help it, you need faster quanta, I suggest swapping in some novas or creations.


Offline kaempfer13Topic starter

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Re: Brave denialbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52340.msg1109319#msg1109319
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 04:40:28 pm »
Well, I guess its not a viable farm deck then; still it sounds like you had terrible draws in all these games (except for the win maybe); I mean getting a lower winrate against silver than against false gods sounds like a statistical anomaly. Deck 3 and 4 should have been beatable with a few fire storms; an arctic octopus and bonewall should have helped a lot, too. Didnt you draw the right cards on time or where quanta the problem?

I am not sure whether novas would actually speed this deck up, since it takes quantum pillars only 3 turns to catch up with them; cremation is even worse because it requires a 2 card combo (well maybe if I pack extra eqs and more gemfinders than cremations it might work). Supernovas are out unless I take out the braveries which would reduce this deck to an ordinary denialbow (since I wont be able to support this many creature control cards), but well you didnt suggest that at all anyway.
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Offline Keeps

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Re: Brave denialbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52340.msg1109339#msg1109339
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 07:48:45 pm »
>since it takes quantum pillars only 3 turns to catch up with them

That's the key, 3 turns to catch up...

If you take a fresh look at your deck, you'll realize, that at it's core it's really a SoPa+Pestal or a Dual Water/Darkness Control.  You said it yourself, it plays like a control deck more than a denial deck, and that's for a reason, however once you look at that, look at how many cards it takes to get through to all that, it's a slow control deck with braveries to try to speed it up, but those come at the risk of speeding up your opponent too, without the proper defensive control or shielding.  Your sighting 1 card needed here or 1 card there, are you hoping the RNG always saves you?

I think given your comments, what you're really trying to do is a brave pestal  ...  take a closer look, and refocus the deck to speed it up.

The FGs are all really easy with a simple unupped deck to counter; as long as you know which one you are facing.  They are built with specific weaknesses and strengths.  The challenge of the FG is the randomness of which you are facing and that there is no perfect deck or near perfect deck to beat them all.  Any average, decently built upped deck will have about a 20% or WR by default.   Most of the farming decks revolve around two ideas with FGs speed such as the voodoo doll decks that have around 30 to 50% WR but only take a few turns to win, so although you might lose a lot, your winning enough fast enough to net a high amount of electrum.  Or, around abuse of the AI not handling a card right and that card being an overpowered card (SoPa today, SoSa a year ago and SoR 1 to 2 years ago, Sundial a few years before that, etc) that yields 60 to 70% WRs. 

I use the trainer a lot, my personal guide, is on a 15 to 20 game run, I must have 80% or greater against AI4 before making the maybe viable in Arena, must have 40% or greater against FGs before making a viable against gold or plat claim.  Even then a few times I've redacted that just because of RNG luck.

Offline Blacksmith

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Re: Brave denialbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52340.msg1109340#msg1109340
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 07:54:52 pm »
Looks very good!
However I got some suggest.

1: playing snovas 5 EH and max quantum pillar making it a 60 card deck. Either that or make it a 40 card deck, it's still viable with 6 sob's.
2: I also recommend to play more cc cards like bb or rt eternity 
3:fire storm, the point with this deck is to prevent opponent from playing cards, fire strom is made to damage as many foes as possible doesn't work good in such deck. 4_Silence could also be a nice add, first let opponent draw lots of cards then prevent them form playing them, this means you cna keep cards liek BH another turn.

ANd denial decks are almost never good in arena but maybe for bronze, devtal is an exception. Double draw and extra mark is too good.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 08:00:18 pm by Blacksmith »
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Offline dragtom

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Re: Brave denialbow https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52340.msg1109359#msg1109359
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 09:36:56 pm »
try to replace the mass cc with repeatable cc.
I guess you have some :earth left, so warden is possible
Or you could go hardcore and use red nymphs (if you have them).

I was about to say that denial + SoBr doesn't fit well, as you can't keep drawing if you succesfully deny the opponent.
But then I realized you don't need to draw more once you achieved a lockdown.

Also, I have an (incomplete) guide lying around.
Maybe that still contains some usefull tips.
be quick- time is quanta.

 

blarg: