Post by: Chapuz on December 23, 2012, 12:38:42 pm
100% unupped version:
Upgraded version:
Resume: Dim Shield rainbow build with a 4/5-card 200 damage combo.
1- Fill the oponent with Cells
2- Vulture + Fractal + RoF + (optional) RoF + Sky Blitz + (optional) Chimera <~~~~ Yes, it doesn't use more than 6 cards.
3- If you didn't understand the resume, look at the spoiler just below.
Firstly, an introduction. What is Firecell, and what is it meant to do? Firecell is a deck that is used to defeat certain False Gods slowly but reliably by using a lot of stalling tactics followed by a massive combo. It's two main charms are that it is very cheap to build (can be played with no upgrades or rare cards), and that it is very fun to deal 200 (or more) damage in one turn.
Who are the False Gods (FG)? They are the ultimate AI you will face in Elements. They have 200 HP, draw extra cards and gain extra quanta. All their cards are upgraded, which makes them very challenging but also means that if you win cards from them, that those cards will also be upgraded. Since upgraded cards sell for over 1200 Electrum, this can provide a solid income of thousands of electrum per hour.
So what is the big combo used to make false gods explode? Firstly, you have to play Aflatoxin on one of their creatures, preferably a small one (low HP, no more than 4). Aflatoxin does 2 damage a turn to the target, and when the target dies (doesn't have to be from the poison), it turns into a Malignant Cell (1 attack, 1 HP) on the False God's side of the board. Every single turn, the Malignant Cell divides and spawns a copy of itself, so first there is 1, then 2, then 4, 8, 16, 23 (at 23 the board is full, and no more creatures can be played on that side). So now there will be a lot of cells trying to kill you. They will be failing thanks to your Dimensional Shields. Eventually, you will have drawn all the cards that you need for the combo (Golden Hourglasses help draw cards. So here is the combo:
Strategy
Stalling: you stall with Dimensional Shields, while drawing towards your combo with Hourglasses. Generally, only those gods with low levels of permanent control are viable for Firecell, and permanent control will always hit an Hourglass before a shield. Hopefully you can survive long enough to chain all your shields together, and often this means waiting until your health is in the 30-60 HP region. You can weather a few hits, but beware of creatures that deal poison damage as this will continue to hurt you after you play your shields. Generally you want to have another shield in your hand when you play one, or have an Hourglass on the field. If your :time Quanta income is low, don't play additional Hourglasses beyond the first, hold onto them to play later or discard. The same goes for the second Aflatoxin if you are low on Death Quanta. Also, never press spacebar without checking that your shield won't expire!
Malignant cells: the earlier you play Aflatoxin the better, as it gives the cells more time to divide, and once the board is full your opponent cannot play any more creatures which is very useful
The kill: to win, you need the right cards in hand (or be able to guarantee that you draw them from Hourglasses that turn), you need to have your hand have as few cards as possible, to get the right number of Vultures. You carefully need to look at the number of creatures that you can kill (disregard those that are immortal or have more than 3 or 6 HP (depending on how many Rains of Fire you have). If there is a shield out, you may need to use Chimera.
Picking your targets and skips: this deck only works against about 10-13 of the 29 False Gods (depending on the exact cards used). Lots of gods will destroy your shields, and some, like Morning Glory, have no targets for you to Aflatoxin. Your best bet is to skip any gods that are impossible or very hard to beat. You lose 30 electrum, but that is much better than playing for 5 minutes with a high likelihood of losing anyway. Good targets are Destiny, Elidnis, Ferox, Fire Queen, Gemini, Incarnate, Miracle, Morte, Neptune, Paradox, Serket, Scorpio. Some of these are harder than others. Try all of them at least once and get a feel for what your deck can beat. Note that if you play on Kongregate, the white border hides the gods' names - you have to highlight or double-click the text in the upper right to read it.
The numbers
- quanta requirements: for the minimum combo, you will need to play 5 Vultures (including the initial one), 1 Fractal, 1 Rain of Fire, and 1 Sky Blitz, for a total cost 15 :death, 10 :aether, 7 :fire and 9 :air. You may also need to play a second Rain of Fire (14 Fire total), extra Vultures from Fractal and Chimera (7 :gravity). If you are approaching the end of the game and seem short on quanta, stop drawing from your Hourglasses, so you have more turns!! You will almost always be safe with the Shield chains by this point.
Tips and tricks
Discarding: at some point you need to look at your hand and decide if you will have enough room for Fractal'd Vultures. If you don't have the Quanta to drop your last Shields, Aflatoxin and Hourglasses, start keeping your hand full and discarding them every turn. Generally you only need 1 hourglass, 1 Aflatoxin and 3-5 shields. Removal: sometimes you may need to use a single Rain of Fire to clear out dangerous creatures (Physalia) or if you have no shields, even after you've used Aflatoxin. This is a big risk (especially if you only have one Aflatoxin! I strongly recommend running 2).
Drawing: with 3 hourglasses, you can begin your combo if you have 3 or fewer cards in your hand, as long as you have both Fractal and Vulture in your hand. This will let Fractal give you more Vultures.
2-turn kills: sometimes you need to risk getting off an early combo, e.g. if you run out of shields. This is only viable against gods that won't suddenly kill you next turn (they may be holding a lot of creatures) or that can remove all your Vultures, or that have Miracle. Keep the deck lists of the various gods handy to know what they are running.
Keep track of your shield usage: sometimes it's really important to know if this is your 5th or your 6th shield!
Tweak the deck: throw in Time/Death Pendulums if you feel need them, or take pillars out. Add Sanctuary or Sundial, or Purify as you see fit.
Aflatoxin: if you have the Death Quanta and an extra Aflatoxin, play it on a creature that will die in the first Rain of Fire. The second Rain will kill the Malignant Cell, for an extra +1 for your Vultures.
Against Incarnate and Morte your Chimera can easily get over 400 attack due to the Boneyards. Take screenies!
Upgrades
- Electrum Hourglasses are by far the most important upgrade, as they allow you to pay 1 :time to draw a card, instead of 2. Phase shields costing 5 can save your life, and allow you better Fractal timings. The extra +1 damage from an upgraded Vulture could potentially be useful, but this is unlikely (I have, however dealt 196 damage with no cards in my deck, upgraded Vulture would have won that). Once you have upgraded your Towers/Pendulums, your returning time for your Electrum will be very low. Rain of Fire is useful to upgrade since it only costs 5, but Fire is generally not your limiting factor.
Win %
- you should be winning 35-55% of your matches against non-skip gods (about 1/3 of them). Once you get the first upgrades (Hourglasses) this will look more like 45-75%. It takes me 4-5 minutes to beat a false god and 5 seconds for a skip, so you can easily do ~10-12 or so false gods an hour, with hopefully at least 5-6 victories. You tend to get a card every other win (although this can vary a lot). I've posted a number of stats on page 8 of this thread.
Remember: be careful of the order you play your cards in, check the amount of dying creatures and :death quanta! Take your time towards the end of the game, if you make a mistake it's probably going to result in a loss
Who are the False Gods (FG)? They are the ultimate AI you will face in Elements. They have 200 HP, draw extra cards and gain extra quanta. All their cards are upgraded, which makes them very challenging but also means that if you win cards from them, that those cards will also be upgraded. Since upgraded cards sell for over 1200 Electrum, this can provide a solid income of thousands of electrum per hour.
So what is the big combo used to make false gods explode? Firstly, you have to play Aflatoxin on one of their creatures, preferably a small one (low HP, no more than 4). Aflatoxin does 2 damage a turn to the target, and when the target dies (doesn't have to be from the poison), it turns into a Malignant Cell (1 attack, 1 HP) on the False God's side of the board. Every single turn, the Malignant Cell divides and spawns a copy of itself, so first there is 1, then 2, then 4, 8, 16, 23 (at 23 the board is full, and no more creatures can be played on that side). So now there will be a lot of cells trying to kill you. They will be failing thanks to your Dimensional Shields. Eventually, you will have drawn all the cards that you need for the combo (Golden Hourglasses help draw cards. So here is the combo:
- Aflatoxin - you've already used this to make cells. Discard the extra ones
- Vulture - this critter gets +1/+1 every time something dies
- Fractal - cast it on the vulture and you will fill your hand with Vultures (before casting Fractal, you should have no more than 5 cards in hand. Discard extra Hourglass if you need)
- Play the 4+ Vultures from your hand that Fractal gave you
- Rain of Fire (x2) - cast this and kill all those cells on the other side of the board. Then watch as your Vultures grow to 20+ attack each. You can discard one if there are only creatures with 3 or less (many many Cells)
- Sky Blitz - this will double your Vultures' attack, meaning they will now hit for 40+ each
- Chimera - does your opponent have a massive Bone Wall or some other annoying Shield? Cast Chimera and watch as you bypass the shields for more than 200 HP with a single creature. You can discard it or play it before the whole combo if the FG doesn't have an annoying shield, that will give you a more empty hand.
Strategy
Stalling: you stall with Dimensional Shields, while drawing towards your combo with Hourglasses. Generally, only those gods with low levels of permanent control are viable for Firecell, and permanent control will always hit an Hourglass before a shield. Hopefully you can survive long enough to chain all your shields together, and often this means waiting until your health is in the 30-60 HP region. You can weather a few hits, but beware of creatures that deal poison damage as this will continue to hurt you after you play your shields. Generally you want to have another shield in your hand when you play one, or have an Hourglass on the field. If your :time Quanta income is low, don't play additional Hourglasses beyond the first, hold onto them to play later or discard. The same goes for the second Aflatoxin if you are low on Death Quanta. Also, never press spacebar without checking that your shield won't expire!
Malignant cells: the earlier you play Aflatoxin the better, as it gives the cells more time to divide, and once the board is full your opponent cannot play any more creatures which is very useful
The kill: to win, you need the right cards in hand (or be able to guarantee that you draw them from Hourglasses that turn), you need to have your hand have as few cards as possible, to get the right number of Vultures. You carefully need to look at the number of creatures that you can kill (disregard those that are immortal or have more than 3 or 6 HP (depending on how many Rains of Fire you have). If there is a shield out, you may need to use Chimera.
Picking your targets and skips: this deck only works against about 10-13 of the 29 False Gods (depending on the exact cards used). Lots of gods will destroy your shields, and some, like Morning Glory, have no targets for you to Aflatoxin. Your best bet is to skip any gods that are impossible or very hard to beat. You lose 30 electrum, but that is much better than playing for 5 minutes with a high likelihood of losing anyway. Good targets are Destiny, Elidnis, Ferox, Fire Queen, Gemini, Incarnate, Miracle, Morte, Neptune, Paradox, Serket, Scorpio. Some of these are harder than others. Try all of them at least once and get a feel for what your deck can beat. Note that if you play on Kongregate, the white border hides the gods' names - you have to highlight or double-click the text in the upper right to read it.
The numbers
- quanta requirements: for the minimum combo, you will need to play 5 Vultures (including the initial one), 1 Fractal, 1 Rain of Fire, and 1 Sky Blitz, for a total cost 15 :death, 10 :aether, 7 :fire and 9 :air. You may also need to play a second Rain of Fire (14 Fire total), extra Vultures from Fractal and Chimera (7 :gravity). If you are approaching the end of the game and seem short on quanta, stop drawing from your Hourglasses, so you have more turns!! You will almost always be safe with the Shield chains by this point.
Tips and tricks
Discarding: at some point you need to look at your hand and decide if you will have enough room for Fractal'd Vultures. If you don't have the Quanta to drop your last Shields, Aflatoxin and Hourglasses, start keeping your hand full and discarding them every turn. Generally you only need 1 hourglass, 1 Aflatoxin and 3-5 shields. Removal: sometimes you may need to use a single Rain of Fire to clear out dangerous creatures (Physalia) or if you have no shields, even after you've used Aflatoxin. This is a big risk (especially if you only have one Aflatoxin! I strongly recommend running 2).
Drawing: with 3 hourglasses, you can begin your combo if you have 3 or fewer cards in your hand, as long as you have both Fractal and Vulture in your hand. This will let Fractal give you more Vultures.
2-turn kills: sometimes you need to risk getting off an early combo, e.g. if you run out of shields. This is only viable against gods that won't suddenly kill you next turn (they may be holding a lot of creatures) or that can remove all your Vultures, or that have Miracle. Keep the deck lists of the various gods handy to know what they are running.
Keep track of your shield usage: sometimes it's really important to know if this is your 5th or your 6th shield!
Tweak the deck: throw in Time/Death Pendulums if you feel need them, or take pillars out. Add Sanctuary or Sundial, or Purify as you see fit.
Aflatoxin: if you have the Death Quanta and an extra Aflatoxin, play it on a creature that will die in the first Rain of Fire. The second Rain will kill the Malignant Cell, for an extra +1 for your Vultures.
Against Incarnate and Morte your Chimera can easily get over 400 attack due to the Boneyards. Take screenies!
Upgrades
- Electrum Hourglasses are by far the most important upgrade, as they allow you to pay 1 :time to draw a card, instead of 2. Phase shields costing 5 can save your life, and allow you better Fractal timings. The extra +1 damage from an upgraded Vulture could potentially be useful, but this is unlikely (I have, however dealt 196 damage with no cards in my deck, upgraded Vulture would have won that). Once you have upgraded your Towers/Pendulums, your returning time for your Electrum will be very low. Rain of Fire is useful to upgrade since it only costs 5, but Fire is generally not your limiting factor.
Win %
- you should be winning 35-55% of your matches against non-skip gods (about 1/3 of them). Once you get the first upgrades (Hourglasses) this will look more like 45-75%. It takes me 4-5 minutes to beat a false god and 5 seconds for a skip, so you can easily do ~10-12 or so false gods an hour, with hopefully at least 5-6 victories. You tend to get a card every other win (although this can vary a lot). I've posted a number of stats on page 8 of this thread.
Remember: be careful of the order you play your cards in, check the amount of dying creatures and :death quanta! Take your time towards the end of the game, if you make a mistake it's probably going to result in a loss
Winnable FGs: The FGs you can win against them. If you play against a FG that is NOT in this list, just quit and play against other one.
- Destiny
- Elidnis
- Ferox
- Incarnate
- Gemini
- Miracle
- Neptune
- Paradox
- Chaos Lord
- Decay
- Dream Catcher
- Fire Queen
- Hecate
- Serket
- Lionheart (win by deckout, use all the shields!!)
Damage table, from Veens Vicious Viotech (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,27598.0.html)
| Horizontal = Creatures killed by Rain of Fire Vertical = Condors | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 |
| 1 | 4 | 6 | 8 | 10 | 12 | 14 | 16 | 18 | 20 | 22 | 24 | 26 | 28 | 30 | 32 | 34 | 36 | 38 | 40 | 42 | 44 | 46 | 48 |
| 2 | 8 | 12 | 16 | 20 | 24 | 28 | 32 | 36 | 40 | 44 | 48 | 52 | 56 | 60 | 64 | 68 | 72 | 76 | 80 | 84 | 88 | 92 | 96 |
| 3 | 12 | 18 | 24 | 30 | 36 | 42 | 48 | 54 | 60 | 66 | 72 | 78 | 84 | 90 | 96 | 102 | 108 | 114 | 120 | 126 | 132 | 138 | 144 |
| 4 | 16 | 24 | 32 | 40 | 48 | 56 | 64 | 72 | 80 | 88 | 96 | 104 | 112 | 120 | 128 | 136 | 144 | 152 | 160 | 168 | 176 | 184 | 192 |
| 5 | 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | 60 | 70 | 80 | 90 | 100 | 110 | 120 | 130 | 140 | 150 | 160 | 170 | 180 | 190 | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK |
| 6 | 24 | 36 | 48 | 60 | 72 | 84 | 96 | 108 | 120 | 132 | 144 | 156 | 168 | 180 | 192 | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK |
| 7 | 28 | 42 | 56 | 70 | 84 | 98 | 112 | 126 | 140 | 154 | 168 | 182 | 196 | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK | OTK |
Want some pretty pics?
(http://i.imgur.com/J2xHo.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/jQ6AY.png)
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 23, 2012, 12:41:55 pm
Post by: Chapuz on December 25, 2012, 03:42:58 am
Where's the chimera?Under the Aflas :P
EDIT: Added winnable FG list weeeeeeeee
Post by: Pineapple on December 25, 2012, 06:07:09 am
(http://i.imgur.com/wKs94.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/WOYm5.png)
Post by: Pineapple on December 25, 2012, 07:28:13 am
Btw, has anyone thought of siding some Nymph's Tears to go against lionheart, DG, and have an easier time with elidnis?
Post by: Drake_XIV on December 25, 2012, 08:47:44 am
Post by: Chapuz on December 25, 2012, 01:14:27 pm
Btw, has anyone thought of siding some Nymph's Tears to go against lionheart, DG, and have an easier time with elidnis?Why would NT help against Lionheart, DG and Elidnis? Lionheart lobos every creature, so is a skip. DG is virtually impossible to defeat and Elidnis isn't that bad at all
btw: 1 Liquid Shadow is a GREAT addition for platinum EM, but don't you find too many SoFos?
Post by: Pineapple on December 25, 2012, 02:27:29 pm
Btw, has anyone thought of siding some Nymph's Tears to go against lionheart, DG, and have an easier time with elidnis?Why would NT help against Lionheart, DG and Elidnis? Lionheart lobos every creature, so is a skip. DG is virtually impossible to defeat and Elidnis isn't that bad at all
btw: 1 Liquid Shadow is a GREAT addition for platinum EM, but don't you find too many SoFos?
NT gives you a target to aflatoxin. Yeah, weird, the three time I've tried it I never met SoFos. Btw, note to those who want EMs, don't use Liquid Shadow on your Chimera. Only Liquid Shadow the first vulture, or don't Liquid Shadow at all.
I've started adding 1-2
Post by: Chapuz on December 26, 2012, 10:08:14 pm
A 2nd RoF lets you have more winnable FGs and makes other ones easier!
Post by: noah1212 on December 28, 2012, 01:21:46 am
my first time using it i got an EM on Lionheart hahaha.....quality.
Post by: Chapuz on December 28, 2012, 03:44:36 am
wow this isnt half bad. Its great for people looking to take their first stap at fgsHmhh I thought it was impossible, but now I rememeber he uses to deck out against dim shields. He decked out, right?
my first time using it i got an EM on Lionheart hahaha.....quality.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 28, 2012, 10:50:04 am
Post by: Blaze on December 28, 2012, 08:38:26 pm
I like it a lot and it looks like a great way for new players to start battling FGs. The win list is pretty long :)
Post by: Pineapple on December 28, 2012, 09:44:28 pm
How strong is the deck fully upped? Is it better than the other upped options out there?
I like it a lot and it looks like a great way for new players to start battling FGs. The win list is pretty long :)
There are probably better upped options out there, but that's no reason not to up the hourglasses, pillars, and other largely useful cards :P
Post by: Pineapple on January 02, 2013, 05:46:52 pm
Post by: BloodlinE on January 03, 2013, 08:55:16 am
Post by: TheAccuso on January 04, 2013, 09:47:04 am
Tons of damage!
Poor incarnate, doesn't know what hit it.
EDIT: also, put morte on the beatable list.
A tip to play against gemini, wich is definitely one of the most difficult to beat due to its unstoppable.
Use the first RoF aginst its momented spiders, wait until you can stay alive to kill more of them.
Post by: Chapuz on January 04, 2013, 01:09:56 pm
(http://imageplay.net/tya22300165/chapuz_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/tya22300165/chapuz)Broken link, but yeah! 2 RoF and his boneyards make an almost 500 damage Chimera :P
Tons of damage!
Poor incarnate, doesn't know what hit it.
EDIT: also, put morte on the beatable list.
A tip to play against gemini, wich is definitely one of the most difficult to beat due to its unstoppable.
Use the first RoF aginst its momented spiders, wait until you can stay alive to kill more of them.
Post by: TheAccuso on January 04, 2013, 01:14:25 pm
Post by: Imgodzila12 on January 05, 2013, 12:46:08 am
Post by: DeathAvenger on January 06, 2013, 02:32:31 am
Post by: Captain Scibra on January 10, 2013, 10:30:11 pm
Post by: Chapuz on January 13, 2013, 12:04:10 am
Is it me or does this need more :death production?Just want with your shields until you have 15-18 death quanta
EDIT: Updated deck with +1 hourglass, much higher chace of getting a pair of early ones is wonderful.
Post by: Jonny on January 13, 2013, 01:14:17 am
The deck is cheap enough for a newbie to build. It teaches the valuable lesson of counting turns and card combos.
I played my first real game against Paradox (Thanks, RNG! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45677.12.html)), but I shouldn't have been so lucky.
Here are the gods I lost against during training: Akebono, Jezebel, Obliterator, Divine Glory and Paradox (yes, shame on me).
[Edit:] Also, you should add Eternal Phoenix to the list of winnable false gods. Granted, you need to be very lucky, but if he has a bad draw (and you have a good one), it's very easy:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/34186219/stuff/topdecking-EP.JPG)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/34186219/stuff/topdecking-EP-2.JPG)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/34186219/stuff/topdecking-EP-2.JPG)
Post by: TribalTrouble on January 14, 2013, 05:04:29 pm
Post by: Jonny on January 16, 2013, 08:40:23 pm
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/34186219/stuff/topdecking-Akebono.JPG)
Here's what happened:
- I played Aflatoxin early on one of his Armagios
- He drew Chimera and played it
- The result was a single malignant cell with momentum but not gravity pull
- I ran out of shields, but I had both the vulture and the fractal
- …
- Profit!
Post by: Chapuz on January 16, 2013, 09:26:13 pm
You won't believe me. ;D1) you didn't skip against Akebono?(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/34186219/stuff/topdecking-Akebono.JPG)
Here's what happened:
- I played Aflatoxin early on one of his Armagios
- He drew Chimera and played it
- The result was a single malignant cell with momentum but not gravity pull
- I ran out of shields, but I had both the vulture and the fractal
- …
- Profit!
2) is that a known bug?
Post by: TribalTrouble on January 16, 2013, 09:27:07 pm
Post by: TheAccuso on January 16, 2013, 10:28:36 pm
Post by: Jonny on January 17, 2013, 01:30:21 pm
Why didn't you screeny when he played the Chimera T.T
I know, I should have done that! But on that turn I was like *phew* and hit space to get on with it. ^^
It didn't occur until much later that I had probably witnessed something rare.
1) you didn't skip against Akebono?
Nah. I was down to my last 30 coin and I figured I might as well get my money's worth in turns. I'm not very effective as a player, but I know how to have fun. ;)
Post by: poiiop555 on January 25, 2013, 03:35:32 am
the lion heart would start to put things back to deck when it has only 4 cards, so this deck won't beat it
Post by: CuCN on January 25, 2013, 05:11:45 am
not sure if anyone mentioned this.
the lion heart would start to put things back to deck when it has only 4 cards, so this deck won't beat it
Lionheart does reverse its own creatures, but also uses the ability from Anubis to make its entire field untargetable eventually. At that point it's not possible to reverse them anymore and it decks out.
Post by: Chapuz on January 25, 2013, 12:26:40 pm
Generally, it gets the entire field quintessenced. If it doesn't, it even can have only 1 non-quintes creature, so it will eventually deck out after 5 turns (because of the double draw)not sure if anyone mentioned this.
the lion heart would start to put things back to deck when it has only 4 cards, so this deck won't beat it
Lionheart does reverse its own creatures, but also uses the ability from Anubis to make its entire field untargetable eventually. At that point it's not possible to reverse them anymore and it decks out.
Post by: Sunput on January 30, 2013, 02:54:44 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on February 04, 2013, 05:42:52 am
Post by: Chapuz on February 04, 2013, 01:41:52 pm
Upped version?Limitless Speed. It shares most of the cards, has less skips and it's smaller, so you have less lost games because of lack of shields.
Post by: Domu on February 05, 2013, 07:11:52 pm
Post by: Chapuz on February 05, 2013, 10:12:13 pm
If there is a way to squeeze in an adrenaline or two, it will make the malignant cells breed like rabbits.I thought about it, before noticing the winnable FGs have all low HP creatures at most
Post by: wery12345 on February 18, 2013, 04:14:09 am
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on February 18, 2013, 04:21:42 am
i honestly am confused on how to make this work cause those pic's show more then 1 vulture so should i buy more then one? and i honestly dont know how to build up to the on hit killing combo
Use Fractal on the Vulture.
Post by: wery12345 on February 18, 2013, 06:48:57 am
i honestly am confused on how to make this work cause those pic's show more then 1 vulture so should i buy more then one? and i honestly dont know how to build up to the on hit killing combo
Use Fractal on the Vulture.
ill try if i ever have the chance to cause fractal rarly shows up when its alive
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 18, 2013, 06:49:52 am
Post by: wery12345 on February 18, 2013, 06:58:54 am
You aren't supposed to play it right away. You're supposed to wait until you have the combo set up and the cards in your hand.
ah okay i wish i had more help but the kong chat isnt always reliable
Post by: Chapuz on February 18, 2013, 10:24:05 am
The community chat is awesome!! Just click in the link of the upper right corner of the window.You aren't supposed to play it right away. You're supposed to wait until you have the combo set up and the cards in your hand.
ah okay i wish i had more help but the kong chat isnt always reliable
For the combo, you must have in your hand: Vulture + Fractal + 1/2 RoF + Sky Blitz + (sometimes) Chimera (the rest of your hand should be empty, but that's not a problem is you discard the extra Aflas)
Play the combo in that order, all the cards in the same turn, and you will see a massive Chimera or a lot (5/6) of fat, fat Vultures
Post by: wery12345 on February 18, 2013, 02:57:13 pm
The community chat is awesome!! Just click in the link of the upper right corner of the window.You aren't supposed to play it right away. You're supposed to wait until you have the combo set up and the cards in your hand.
ah okay i wish i had more help but the kong chat isnt always reliable
For the combo, you must have in your hand: Vulture + Fractal + 1/2 RoF + Sky Blitz + (sometimes) Chimera (the rest of your hand should be empty, but that's not a problem is you discard the extra Aflas)
Play the combo in that order, all the cards in the same turn, and you will see a massive Chimera or a lot (5/6) of fat, fat Vultures
ah okay thanks :D
Post by: Maximito on February 18, 2013, 03:01:52 pm
Post by: wery12345 on February 18, 2013, 08:40:52 pm
The community chat is awesome!! Just click in the link of the upper right corner of the window.You aren't supposed to play it right away. You're supposed to wait until you have the combo set up and the cards in your hand.
ah okay i wish i had more help but the kong chat isnt always reliable
For the combo, you must have in your hand: Vulture + Fractal + 1/2 RoF + Sky Blitz + (sometimes) Chimera (the rest of your hand should be empty, but that's not a problem is you discard the extra Aflas)
Play the combo in that order, all the cards in the same turn, and you will see a massive Chimera or a lot (5/6) of fat, fat Vultures
okay i have been truing this all day but they keep freaking filling there feild with monsters before i can do anything becuase i never get aflitoxin on the 1st draw
Post by: Chapuz on February 18, 2013, 10:11:05 pm
okay i have been truing this all day but they keep freaking filling there feild with monsters before i can do anything becuase i never get aflitoxin on the 1st drawLook at the winnable FGs: They all have, at most, low HP creatures (6 or less). You can play your afla in turn 10 and it would still be fine.
Notice that in most of the FGs you really don't care about the opponent creatures' attack, as you will be protected with your shield.
Post by: wery12345 on February 18, 2013, 10:22:29 pm
okay i have been truing this all day but they keep freaking filling there feild with monsters before i can do anything becuase i never get aflitoxin on the 1st drawLook at the winnable FGs: They all have, at most, low HP creatures (6 or less). You can play your afla in turn 10 and it would still be fine.
Notice that in most of the FGs you really don't care about the opponent creatures' attack, as you will be protected with your shield.
yeah but even with all those shields/hourglasses i seem to only get 1 of them every hand and then i lose so right now i down to 300ish electrum
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 18, 2013, 10:48:32 pm
Post by: Chapuz on February 19, 2013, 12:24:07 am
Post by: Pineapple on February 19, 2013, 06:02:20 am
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 19, 2013, 08:19:01 pm
I guess creating a strategy guide for noobs is now in order... Who wants to write it?I nominate Chapuz, for Chapuz, the man who wants to write it. 8)
Post by: Chapuz on February 19, 2013, 09:41:43 pm
I guess creating a strategy guide for noobs is now in order... Who wants to write it?I don't think so, as in the OP there is a spoiler of "some useful tips" with the only 2 things you should know.
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 19, 2013, 10:35:27 pm
Post by: TribalTrouble on February 24, 2013, 12:20:47 am
Post by: gomorycut on February 26, 2013, 06:37:14 am
EDIT: Ah, I see ... skyblitz.
Post by: Chapuz on February 26, 2013, 03:31:32 pm
Why is fire rain being used instead of thunderstorms? Is it just for a cooler name?2 RoF lets you kill any 6- HP creatures. 2 Thunderstorms lets you kill any 4- HP creatures. Against some FGs, that's an actual difference. Besides, against other FGs it's good to discard a Rof because they have all 3- HP creatures and you can fractal an extra Vulture. You have enough quanta for the RoFs, don't worry about that.
Post by: Aircell on March 01, 2013, 04:38:33 pm
Also, I would like to add that you can win against Morte with this deck.
Post by: bomber on March 06, 2013, 06:57:50 pm
Post by: Quantumage on March 06, 2013, 08:02:49 pm
Post by: Dandy on March 07, 2013, 11:25:00 pm
Post by: Chapuz on March 08, 2013, 12:19:36 am
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I have yet to win a match against Hecate. Strategies?Afla a low-HP doll, and start the combo with pretty high HP if you can.
Post by: Dandy on March 08, 2013, 12:29:28 am
Post by: Chapuz on March 08, 2013, 12:50:55 am
So, does that mean that you recommend an early dim chain?Yes, as you will receive damage from REs and a bit of poison
Post by: Dandy on March 08, 2013, 04:47:29 pm
Post by: Cr33pnD3a7n on March 15, 2013, 04:05:48 am
(http://i.imgur.com/okGZGcI.jpg?1)
Post by: Chapuz on March 15, 2013, 02:46:12 pm
576 dmg!How did you get 576 without stealing a Graveyard? I thought the max Chimera against Incarnate was 470(http://i.imgur.com/okGZGcI.jpg?1)
Post by: TribalTrouble on March 15, 2013, 04:15:48 pm
It's a secret. 8)576 dmg!How did you get 576 without stealing a Graveyard? I thought the max Chimera against Incarnate was 470(http://i.imgur.com/okGZGcI.jpg?1)
Post by: Cr33pnD3a7n on March 15, 2013, 10:19:03 pm
576 dmg!How did you get 576 without stealing a Graveyard? I thought the max Chimera against Incarnate was 470(http://i.imgur.com/okGZGcI.jpg?1)
I'm not sure. I don't use this deck much. I played the vulture, fract it and played 4 more. 2 rain of fire's later and a sky blitz. problem was all of that gave him 104 bone walls and i didnt have my chimera yet. Next turn I used my hourglasses to get the chimera and bam 576.
Post by: BenRay on March 18, 2013, 12:47:50 am
Post by: Chapuz on March 18, 2013, 02:24:38 am
I dont understand how you play this deck can someone link me a tutorial?It is explained in the main post, in page 1.
Quote
Easy to explain: Dim Shield rainbow build with a 4/5-card 200 damage combo
1- Fill the oponent with Cells
2- Vulture + Fractal + RoF + (optional) RoF + Sky Blitz + (optional) Chimera <~~~~ Yes, the combo doesn't use more than 6 cards.
3- Enjoy killing a FG in a single hit
Post by: Farin44 on March 18, 2013, 04:09:39 am
Post by: Chapuz on March 18, 2013, 03:01:05 pm
Pure aflatoxin and empathic bond is a good way to go, or aflatoxin + SoP is pretty goodBut I don't want to afla my creatures... have you seen the pics to understand the idea?
Post by: Vineroz on March 20, 2013, 10:31:15 pm
The run wasn't exactly smooth. Most of the time it suffers from bad draws (no Dims/HG), or quanta issues, especially you got 2 sancs in your hand that you never get the quanta to pay for, and some other cards (e.g. Chimera, Skyblitz) clogging your hand.
This deck idea is basically the same as FFQ counter (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9597.msg113695.html#msg113695). That deck was considered to be one of the most successful unupped specific FG counter in my experience. If it is tweaked for a bit as follows:
Then I think it can tackle the problems I have encountered. Thoughts?
Post by: Drake_XIV on March 21, 2013, 04:03:30 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on March 21, 2013, 04:05:50 am
The issue to me, at a glance, is does it produce :death fast enough and in enough quantity to support the Vultures?Chapuz's deck runs it solely on 13 QT's. 14 QT's and 2 death pendulums is plenty enough.
Post by: Vineroz on March 21, 2013, 02:47:45 pm
The issue to me, at a glance, is does it produce :death fast enough and in enough quantity to support the Vultures?
This is one of the problems I encountered with Chapuz's deck. I often find myself short of :death quanta. But with my build it has no problem at all.
Post by: TribalTrouble on March 21, 2013, 08:29:51 pm
Post by: Chapuz on March 21, 2013, 10:06:43 pm
@Vine: I will assume you did NOT use extra glasses and discard dims instead of gaining all the quanta for as long as you could, right?
I wish someone had the time to make a little test of this against the winnable FGs, importing the code in the trainer. I will see if I have some time today/tomorrow.
Also, no sancts lets you have pretty sundials. With only 1 hourglass in play, it makes a card advantage.
Post by: Cr33pnD3a7n on March 29, 2013, 12:39:52 am
I would do it 33 cards, adding a RoF and a dim (which can be discarded if needed). 6 dims is a must, as there is no extra :time generation.
@Vine: I will assume you did NOT use extra glasses and discard dims instead of gaining all the quanta for as long as you could, right?
I wish someone had the time to make a little test of this against the winnable FGs, importing the code in the trainer. I will see if I have some time today/tomorrow.
Also, no sancts lets you have pretty sundials. With only 1 hourglass in play, it makes a card advantage.
Had trouble with posion decks since there are no sancs.
Post by: Chapuz on March 30, 2013, 04:19:31 pm
I would do it 33 cards, adding a RoF and a dim (which can be discarded if needed). 6 dims is a must, as there is no extra :time generation.
@Vine: I will assume you did NOT use extra glasses and discard dims instead of gaining all the quanta for as long as you could, right?
I wish someone had the time to make a little test of this against the winnable FGs, importing the code in the trainer. I will see if I have some time today/tomorrow.
Also, no sancts lets you have pretty sundials. With only 1 hourglass in play, it makes a card advantage.
Had trouble with posion decks since there are no sancs.
Posted a new version, 34 cards with 1 purify. Less bulky = more chances of early dim shields and puri works fine against Serket, Elidnis and those non-Chrysaora poison FGs. Enjoy, and thanks Vineroz for the inspiration!
Post by: fyresentinel on March 31, 2013, 06:19:33 am
Given the loss of Sanctuary, how does it now work against Nightmare, and quanta denial FGs (Discord, Pest, BH, etc)?
Post by: epocnys on March 31, 2013, 01:12:16 pm
Given the loss of Sanctuary, how does it now work against Nightmare, and quanta denial FGs (Discord, Pest, BH, etc)?
It seems like it will be much like Limitless Speed without having sanctuary. Decay sometimes gets ahead of me in denial and I lose, but even without sanc eventually I'll have the quanta to play the combo.
I'm going to give this new change a try and see how it goes.
Post by: Chapuz on March 31, 2013, 01:13:33 pm
Nice update. Purify over Sanctuary may mean fewer EMs (less life gain, but comes out much earlier), but hopefully the trimness makes up for this. The Death Pendulums are good to see (I went so far as to use a Death Pendulum and a Bone Pillar in my deck, in order to find the minimum of 21 death quanta needed to combo out, often more since I wanted to get rid of the Afflotoxins in hand).The only change is Decay, who becomes unbeatable. Discord makes nothing in a rainbow and dark matter was unbeatable before because of Momentum. This version should have a much higher win rate against all the other FGs.
Given the loss of Sanctuary, how does it now work against Nightmare, and quanta denial FGs (Discord, Pest, BH, etc)?
Post by: fyresentinel on April 01, 2013, 12:45:15 am
| FG | Result | TTW | EM | Electrum | Notes |
| Destiny | Win | 14 | No | 48 | |
| Dark Matter | Skip | ||||
| Morte | Win | 13 | No | 38 | |
| Gemini | Win | 18 | No | 52 | |
| Octane | Skip | ||||
| Hermes | Skip | ||||
| Dream Catcher | Loss | Early destroy and Physalia mutation | |||
| Eternal Phoenix | Skip | ||||
| Octane | Skip | ||||
| Miracle | Loss | Need Time and Aether quanta | |||
| Scorpio | Loss | Too many Physalias | |||
| Akebono | Skip | ||||
| Scorpio | Loss | FG Purified Aflatoxin :(, 2nd Afla was last card in deck | |||
| Divine Glory | Skip | ||||
| Jezebel | Skip | ||||
| Octane | Skip | ||||
| Jezebel | Skip | ||||
| Morte | Win | 14 | No | 46 | BAM! 400 damage to the face |
| Fire Queen | Win | 17 | No | 51 | Removed 2x QP, added Death & Time Pendulum |
| Elidnis | Win | 16 | No | 54 | |
| Graviton | Skip | ||||
| Ferox | Win | 19 | No | 48 | Need Time quanta |
| Dark Matter | Skip | ||||
| Neptune | Win | 15 | No | 53 | |
| Jezebel | Skip | ||||
| Incarnate | Skip | 17 | No | 43 | Need Time quanta |
| Graviton | Skip | ||||
| Graviton | Skip | ||||
| Seism | Skip | ||||
| Divine Glory | Skip | ||||
| Morte | Win | 18 | No | 63 | |
| Hecate | Loss | No shields drawn | |||
| Morte | Loss | Need Time quanta, no shields drawn | |||
| Gemini | Loss | Momentum dragon and no early Afla targets | |||
| Jezebel | Skip | ||||
| Ferox | Win | 16 | No | 38 | Need Death quanta |
| Osiris | Skip | ||||
| Decay | Skip | ||||
| Seism | Skip | ||||
| Rainbow | Skip | Ran out of Electrum (lol) | |||
| Lionheart | Loss | Not enough shields | |||
| Lionheart | Loss | Decked out (FG devoured his Anubises) | |||
| Gemini | Loss | Insufficient shields drawn, need Time quanta | |||
| Elidnis | Loss | Insufficient shields or hourglasses drawn | |||
| Scorpio | Win | 14 | No | 39 | Would have been less close if Purify wasn't the last card |
| Akebono | Skip | ||||
| Rainbow | Skip | ||||
| Morte | Win | 16 | No | 59 | Waiting on Fire quanta |
| Dream Catcher | Skip | ||||
| Dream Catcher | Skip |
Summary of 50 games:
| Win | 13 | 26% |
| Loss | 11 | 22% |
| Skip | 26 | 52% |
So overall win rate was 26% and wins against non-skips was 54%. Average turns to win was 16, with 49 electrum per win (I actually lost a lot more electrum than I earned, although this was without selling the upgraded cards I won).
Overall, the win rate was a bit lower than a run I had last night, where I was winning a higher proportion of games, and also got less skips (but it was late so I didn't track the data).
I was running a slightly modified version of Chapuz's latest list, which changed by a few pillars while playtesting:
There are some notable upgrades, some of which were just because I had them (Purify, Phase Shield), but the Electrum Hourglasses are almost essential, since even with 3 Time Pendulums, Time quanta can be in very short supply. Upgraded Fire Storms are also useful for only requiring 10 Fire for the combo. 3 Death Pendulums seem to be about right to provide the quanta for an early (and mid) game Aflatoxin, and also the 15+ required for Vultures by turn 15 or so.
Thoughts overall:
- Time quanta still in short supply
- Two Aflatoxins seems about right
- With upgraded shields and pendulums, could go down to 5 shields
- Swapping Quantum Pillars for Pendulums (Death, Time) also improves Aether generation and is a good idea. I got trolled hard by Quantum Pillars these games, especially for Time
- As already mentioned, Electrum Hourglasses are a must, and a worthwhile upgrade since they are useful in many other decks
Post by: fyresentinel on April 01, 2013, 01:04:20 pm
| FG | Result | Notes | Cards won |
| Destiny | Loss | 6 turns without shields | |
| Miracle | Loss | Creatures too big for combo | |
| Osiris | Skip | ||
| Eternal Phoenix | Skip | ||
| Obliterator | Skip | ||
| Elidnis | Win | ||
| Eternal Phoenix | Skip | ||
| Fire Queen | Win | Fire Bolt says no to EM | |
| Miracle | Win | 2 | |
| Destiny | Win | Early RoF to stall | |
| Jezebel | Skip | ||
| Obliterator | Skip | ||
| Fire Queen | Win | ||
| Hecate | Loss | Almost a skip | |
| Divine Glory | Skip | ||
| Paradox | Loss | Drew only 2 shields and no hourglasses | |
| Miracle | Loss | Too many Light Dragons | |
| Osiris | Skip | ||
| Scorpio | Loss | So much poison | |
| Elidnis | Win | Short on Aether | |
| Paradox | Loss | No shields | |
| Morte | Loss | No shields | |
| Fire Queen | Win | ||
| Jezebel | Skip | ||
| Obliterator | Skip | ||
| Elidnis | Win | ||
| Graviton | Skip | ||
| Divine Glory | Skip | ||
| Gemini | Loss | Momentum'd Recluse | |
| Eternal Phoenix | Skip | ||
| Seism | Skip | ||
| Hecate | Skip | ||
| Miracle | Win | 2 | |
| Miracle | Loss | No shields | |
| Ferox | Loss | No aether | |
| Incarnate | Win | ||
| Jezebel | Skip | ||
| Lionheart | Loss | Ran out of shields | |
| Incarnate | Win | ||
| Hermes | Skip | ||
| Serket | Loss | No shields or purify | |
| Chaos Lord | Skip | ||
| Dark Matter | Skip |
Summary of these games:
| Win | 11 | 26% |
| Loss | 13 | 30% |
| Skip | 19 | 44% |
Overall win rate of 26%, with 46% win rate against non-skips. Around 17 turns to win.
Thoughts:
- Electrum Hourglasses are a vital upgrade
- Slightly short of both Time and Aether Quanta, recommend swapping 3 Quantum Pillars for Time Pendulums which will provide both
- Due to being slightly slower, often had to try to have extra Vultures (so only 1 Rain of Fire, and no Chimera in hand). Sometimes had to do a 2 turn kill where viable (Fire Queen), and sometimes could not win at all (Miracle)
- Early Rain of Fire is sometimes vital to stall
- 2 Aflatoxin and 2 Rain of Fire are good numbers
- Could possibly go to 2 Purify, would help vs. Scorpio and Serket since unupped deck is slower
- Minor upgrades (hourglasses, Fire Storm, Phase Shields, Vulture) would definitely help win rate and turns to win
Post by: Junkers on April 01, 2013, 09:27:25 pm
Post by: fyresentinel on April 02, 2013, 12:33:58 am
20 games, 2 losses, 7 skips, 11 wins (3 EMs). That's a 55% winrate and a 85% winrate for non-skips (I think this is abnormally high, got a lot fewer skips than I should have).
Tried a smaller version with 1 sanct, 1 less hourglass and 2 less Time Pendulums:
25 games with 6 wins (3 EMs), 4 losses, 19 skips. Unusually high number of skips. FGei(e) of 7497 electrum/hour and FGei(c) of 5248 electrum/hour. Probably doesn't need more than 1 Time Pendulum.
Post by: Physsion on April 02, 2013, 12:44:50 pm
Post by: ColorlessGreen on April 02, 2013, 03:37:27 pm
Considering how often newbies get pointed at this deck when they ask how to beat FGs while poor, it might be extremely useful to have a more detailed guide on how to operate the deck in the OP. There's certainly a description and tips right now, but they're really more geared towards people who have an idea of how the game works (and how OTKs work, and how all the various cards in this deck work and such) already.
Post by: TribalTrouble on April 02, 2013, 07:37:25 pm
Post by: ColorlessGreen on April 02, 2013, 07:52:14 pm
So would you like something like the guide for It's A Trap(forum search if you don't know) or are you requesting something for each individual FG? Or both?
I don't think each individual FG is really necessary since the beatable ones pretty much all play (more or less) the same way, and just a mention of little tricks against specific FGs in the tips section is fine (and not even totally necessary TBH).
I just mean an expanded version of the section where Chapuz describes the combo and playstyle. I see this deck recommended to the new people who come into chat and say "how can I beat FGs unupped", followed by the new people coming back an hour later complaining that they just lost all their money and now have this "useless" deck, and upon further conversation with them discover that they'd been just tossing the vulture out whenever and RoF'ing for CC and whatnot.
Basically, the reputation of the deck and the wealth of the new players who get pointed at it could be protected if the top post contained a detailed description of how the deck works that's aimed at people with little to no prior knowledge about the game or OTK combos.
Another alternative is to just stop suggesting it to people until those people get to know the game better, but I don't really see that happening given how common of a question "how do I beat FG unupped" is.
Post by: Chapuz on April 02, 2013, 09:14:15 pm
Post by: epocnys on April 02, 2013, 09:39:05 pm
I will write it later today. Thanks, Green
Here's a couple things to consider including. Having been new to OTK's and specifically this deck the two things that I had to discover through trial was the quanta requirement for the combo and number of enemy creatures needed to pull off the combo. Those end up being pretty obvious lessons when you start the chain without having all the quanta, or end up with slightly UP ravens. Of course.. that also could have been having a fullish hand of extra cards which messed up the fractal. Live and learn.
Great deck though.
Post by: fyresentinel on April 03, 2013, 12:59:09 pm
Firstly, an introduction. What is firecell, and what is it meant to do? Fire cell is a deck that is used to defeat certain False Gods slowly but reliably by using a lot of stalling tactics followed by a massive combo. It's two main charms are that it is very cheap to build (can be played with no upgrades or rare cards), and that it is very fun to deal 200 (or more damage) in one turn.
Who are the False Gods? They are the ultimate AI you will face in Elements. They have 200 HP, draw extra cards and gain extra quanta. All their cards are upgraded, which makes them very challenging but also means that if you win cards from them, that those cards will also be upgraded. Since upgraded cards sell for over 1000 Electrum, this can provide solid (if unreliable) income of thousands of electrum per hour.
So what is the big combo used to make false gods explode? Firstly, you have to play Aflatoxin on one of their creatures, preferably a small one with 1 or 2 HP. Aflatoxin does 2 damage a turn to the target, and when the target dies (doesn't have to be from the poison), it turns into a Malignant Cell on the False God's side of the board. Every single turn, the Malignant Cell divides and spawns a copy of itself, so first there is 1, then 2, then 4, 8, 16, 23 (at 23 the board is full, and no more creatures can be played on that side). So now there will be a lot of cells trying to kill you. They will be failing thanks to your Dimensional Shields. Eventually, you will have drawn all the cards that you need for the combo (Golden Hourglasses help draw cards. So here is the combo:
- Aflatoxin - you've already used this to make cells
- Vulture - this critter gets +1/+1 every time something dies
- Fractal - cast it on the vulture and you will fill your hand with Vultures (before casting Fractal, you should have no more than 5 cards in hand)
- Play the 4+ Vultures from your hand that Fractal gave you
- Rain of Fire - cast this and kill all those cells on the other side of the board. Then watch as your Vultures grow to 20+ attack each
- Rain of Fire - cast another in case there are pesky creatures still standing that have more than 3 (but less than 6 health)
- Sky Blitz - this will double your Vultures' attack, meaning they will now hit for 40+ each
- Chimera - does your opponent have a massive Bone Wall or some other Shield? Cast Chimera and watch as you attack for more than 200 HP with a single creature
And that's the combo.
Strategy:
- stalling: you stall with Dimensional Shields, while drawing towards your combo with Hourglasses. Generally, only those gods with low levels of permanent control are viable for Firecell, and permanent control will always hit an Hourglass before a shield. Hopefully you can survive long enough to chain all your shields together, and often this means waiting until your health is in the 30-60 HP region. You can weather a few hits, but beware of creatures that deal poison damage as this will continue to hurt you after you play your shields. Generally you want to have another shield in your hand when you play one, or have an Hourglass on the field. If your Time Quanta income is low, don't play additional Hourglasses beyond the first, hold onto them to play later or discard. The same goes for the second Aflatoxin if you are low on Death Quanta. Also, never press spacebar without checking that your shield won't expire!
- malignant cells: the earlier you play Aflatoxin the better, as it gives the cells more time to divide, and once the board is full your opponent cannot play any more creatures which is very useful
- the kill: to win, you need the right cards in hand (or be able to guarantee that you draw them from Hourglasses that turn), you need to have your hand have as few cards as possible, to get the right number of Vultures. You carefully need to look at the number of creatures that you can kill (disregard those that are immortal or have more than 3 or 6 HP (depending on how many Rains of Fire you have). If there is a shield out, you may need to use Chimera.
- picking your targets and skips: this deck only works against about 10-13 of the 29 False Gods (depending on the exact cards used). Lots of gods will destroy your shields, and some, like Morning Glory, have no targets for you to Aflatoxin. Your best bet is to skip any gods that are impossible or very hard to beat. You lose 30 electrum, but that is much better than playing for 5 minutes with a high likelihood of losing anyway. Good targets are Destiny, Elidnis, Ferox, Fire Queen, Gemini, Incarnate, Miracle, Morte, Neptune, Paradox, Serket, Scorpio. Some of these are harder than others. Try all of them at least once and get a feel for what your deck can beat. Note that if you play on Kongregate, the white border hides the gods' names - you have to highlight or double-click the text in the upper right to read it.
The numbers:
- quanta requirements: for the minimum combo, you will need to play 5 Vultures (including the initial one), 1 Fractal, 1 Rain of Fire, and 1 Sky Blitz, for a total cost 15 Death, 10 Aether, 7 Fire, 9 Air. You may also need to play a second Rain of Fire (14 Fire total), extra Vultures from Fractal and Chimera (7 Gravity), as well as playing any last Dimensional Shields or Hourglasses in your hand to free up room for Fractal'd Vultures (you can have up to 8 cards in hand). Aether, Death and sometimes Fire will be your limiting resources in a typical game. If you are approaching the end of the game and seem short on quanta, stop drawing from your Hourglasses, so you have more turns. You will almost always be safe with the Shield chains by this point.
- the damage: the formula for your total damage is:
Code: [Select]
number of Vultures * (creatures that will be killed * 2 - shield absorption).Be aware that creatures with Immortality will not be hit by Rain of Fire. You can negate the shield damage by using Chimera. Carefully work out how many Vultures you will have, if you have 5 cards in hand before playing Fractal, you will end with 4 Vultures in hand (5 in total). If you have 5 Vultures, e.g. your hand consists of Fractal, Rain of Fire, Rain of Fire, Sky Dive and Chimera, you will need to kill 20 creatures to guarantee a kill. If you can play 6 Vultures, you will need to kill 17 creatures. If you can only kill 15 creatures and there is a shield out that blocks 2 attack damage and you have no Chimera, you will need to play 8 Vultures.
Tips and tricks:
- discarding: at some point you need to look at your hand and decide if you will have enough room for Fractal'd Vultures. If you don't have the Quanta to drop your last Shields, Aflatoxin and Hourglasses, start keeping your hand full and discarding them every turn. Generally you only need 1 hourglass, 1 Aflatoxin and 3-5 shields.
- removal: sometimes you may need to use a single Rain of Fire to clear out dangerous creatures (Physalia) or if you have no shields, even after you've used Aflatoxin. This is a big risk (especially if you only have one Aflatoxin! I strongly recommend running 2).
- drawing: with 3 hourglasses, you can begin your combo if you have 3 or fewer cards in your library, as long as you have both Fractal and Vulture in your hand. This will let Fractal give you more Vultures.
- 2 turn kills: sometimes you need to risk getting off an early combo, e.g. if you run out of shields. This is only viable against gods that won't suddenly kill you next turn (they may be holding a lot of creatures) or that can remove all your Vultures, or that have Miracle. Keep the deck lists of the various gods handy to know what they are running.
- keep track of your shield usage: sometimes it's really important to know if this is your 5th or your 6th shield!
- tweak the deck, throw in Time/Death Pendulums if you need them, or take pillars out. Add Sanctuary or Sundial or Shard of Sacrifice, or Purify as you see fit.
- Aflatoxin: if you have the Death Quanta and an Aflatoxin, play it on a creature that will die in the first Rain of Fire. The second Rain will kill the Malignant Cell, for an extra +1 for your Vultures.
- against Incarnate and Morte your Chimera can easily get over 400 attack due to the Boneyards.
Upgrades:
- Electrum Hourglasses are by far the most important upgrade, as they allow you to pay 1 Time to draw a card, instead of 2. Rain of Fire is useful to upgrade since it only costs 5, but Fire is generally not your limiting factor. Phase shields costing 5 can save your life, and allow you better Fractal timings. The extra +1 damage from an upgraded Vulture could potentially be useful, but this is unlikely (I have, however dealt 196 damage with no cards in my library, upgraded Vulture would have won that). Once you have upgraded your Towers/Pendulums, your return for your Electrum will be very low.
Win %s:
- you should be winning 35-55% of your matches against non-skip gods (about 1/3rd of them). Once you get some nice upgrades, this will look more like 45-75%. It takes me 4-5 minutes to beat a false god and 5 seconds for a skip, so you can easily do ~10-12 or so false gods an hour, with hopefully at least 5-6 victories. You tend to get a card every other win (although this can vary a lot). I've posted a number of stats on page 8 of this thread.
PvP:
- this deck is quite slow and vulnerable in PvP since many players will run poison or permanent destruction or some other way to get past your shields. You can pull off some satisfying wins (although it will take a long time with the pvp delay) and remember you generally only need to do 100 damage, although it takes a while to gather the quanta. Occasionally you can beat higher level (gold, plat) arena decks that don't include control elements, but generally you want to farm with a faster deck to get more spins per hour.
Remember: be careful of the order you play your cards in, and calculate carefully both the damage output and the quanta needed. Take your time towards the end of the game, if you make a mistake it's probably going to result in a loss
Post by: epocnys on April 03, 2013, 01:03:53 pm
I've been playing this deck quite a bit lately and introducing new players to it, so I thought I'd give ColorlessGreen's suggestion a go. I'm sure Chapuz can fill his time innovating great new decks ^_^.
Firstly, an introduction. What is firecell, and what is it meant to do? Fire cell is a deck that is used to defeat certain False Gods slowly but reliably by using a lot of stalling tactics followed by a massive combo. It's two main charms are that it is very cheap to build (can be played with no upgrades or rare cards), and that it is very fun to deal 200 (or more damage) in one turn.
Who are the False Gods? They are the ultimate AI you will face in Elements. They have 200 HP, draw extra cards and gain extra quanta. All their cards are upgraded, which makes them very challenging but also means that if you win cards from them, that those cards will also be upgraded. Since upgraded cards sell for over 1000 Electrum, this can provide solid (if unreliable) income of thousands of electrum per hour.
So what is the big combo used to make false gods explode? Firstly, you have to play Aflatoxin on one of their creatures, preferably a small one with 1 or 2 HP. Aflatoxin does 2 damage a turn to the target, and when the target dies (doesn't have to be from the poison), it turns into a Malignant Cell on the False God's side of the board. Every single turn, the Malignant Cell divides and spawns a copy of itself, so first there is 1, then 2, then 4, 8, 16, 23 (at 23 the board is full, and no more creatures can be played on that side). So now there will be a lot of cells trying to kill you. They will be failing thanks to your Dimensional Shields. Eventually, you will have drawn all the cards that you need for the combo (Golden Hourglasses help draw cards. So here is the combo:
- Aflatoxin - you've already used this to make cells
- Vulture - this critter gets +1/+1 every time something dies
- Fractal - cast it on the vulture and you will fill your hand with Vultures (before casting Fractal, you should have no more than 5 cards in hand)
- Play the 4+ Vultures from your hand that Fractal gave you
- Rain of Fire - cast this and kill all those cells on the other side of the board. Then watch as your Vultures grow to 20+ attack each
- Rain of Fire - cast another in case there are pesky creatures still standing that have more than 3 (but less than 6 health)
- Sky Blitz - this will double your Vultures' attack, meaning they will now hit for 40+ each
- Chimera - does your opponent have a massive Bone Wall or some other Shield? Cast Chimera and watch as you attack for more than 200 HP with a single creature
And that's the combo.
Strategy:
- stalling: you stall with Dimensional Shields, while drawing towards your combo with Hourglasses. Generally, only those gods with low levels of permanent control are viable for Firecell, and permanent control will always hit an Hourglass before a shield. Hopefully you can survive long enough to chain all your shields together, and often this means waiting until your health is in the 30-60 HP region. You can weather a few hits, but beware of creatures that deal poison damage as this will continue to hurt you after you play your shields. Generally you want to have another shield in your hand when you play one, or have an Hourglass on the field. If your Time Quanta income is low, don't play additional Hourglasses beyond the first, hold onto them to play later or discard. The same goes for the second Aflatoxin if you are low on Death Quanta. Also, never press spacebar without checking that your shield won't expire!
- malignant cells: the earlier you play Aflatoxin the better, as it gives the cells more time to divide, and once the board is full your opponent cannot play any more creatures which is very useful
- the kill: to win, you need the right cards in hand (or be able to guarantee that you draw them from Hourglasses that turn), you need to have your hand have as few cards as possible, to get the right number of Vultures. You carefully need to look at the number of creatures that you can kill (disregard those that are immortal or have more than 3 or 6 HP (depending on how many Rains of Fire you have). If there is a shield out, you may need to use Chimera.
- picking your targets and skips: this deck only works against about 10-13 of the 29 False Gods (depending on the exact cards used). Lots of gods will destroy your shields, and some, like Morning Glory, have no targets for you to Aflatoxin. Your best bet is to skip any gods that are impossible or very hard to beat. You lose 30 electrum, but that is much better than playing for 5 minutes with a high likelihood of losing anyway. Good targets are Destiny, Elidnis, Ferox, Fire Queen, Gemini, Incarnate, Miracle, Morte, Neptune, Paradox, Serket, Scorpio. Some of these are harder than others. Try all of them at least once and get a feel for what your deck can beat. Note that if you play on Kongregate, the white border hides the gods' names - you have to highlight or double-click the text in the upper right to read it.
The numbers:
- quanta requirements: for the minimum combo, you will need to play 5 Vultures (including the initial one), 1 Fractal, 1 Rain of Fire, and 1 Sky Blitz, for a total cost 15 Death, 10 Aether, 7 Fire, 9 Air. You may also need to play a second Rain of Fire (14 Fire total), extra Vultures from Fractal and Chimera (7 Gravity), as well as playing any last Dimensional Shields or Hourglasses in your hand to free up room for Fractal'd Vultures (you can have up to 8 cards in hand). Aether, Death and sometimes Fire will be your limiting resources in a typical game. If you are approaching the end of the game and seem short on quanta, stop drawing from your Hourglasses, so you have more turns. You will almost always be safe with the Shield chains by this point.
- the damage: the formula for your total damage is:Code: [Select]number of Vultures * (creatures that will be killed * 2 - shield absorption).
Be aware that creatures with Immortality will not be hit by Rain of Fire. You can negate the shield damage by using Chimera. Carefully work out how many Vultures you will have, if you have 5 cards in hand before playing Fractal, you will end with 4 Vultures in hand (5 in total). If you have 5 Vultures, e.g. your hand consists of Fractal, Rain of Fire, Rain of Fire, Sky Dive and Chimera, you will need to kill 20 creatures to guarantee a kill. If you can play 6 Vultures, you will need to kill 17 creatures. If you can only kill 15 creatures and there is a shield out that blocks 2 attack damage and you have no Chimera, you will need to play 8 Vultures.
Tips and tricks:
- discarding: at some point you need to look at your hand and decide if you will have enough room for Fractal'd Vultures. If you don't have the Quanta to drop your last Shields, Aflatoxin and Hourglasses, start keeping your hand full and discarding them every turn. Generally you only need 1 hourglass, 1 Aflatoxin and 3-5 shields.
- removal: sometimes you may need to use a single Rain of Fire to clear out dangerous creatures (Physalia) or if you have no shields, even after you've used Aflatoxin. This is a big risk (especially if you only have one Aflatoxin! I strongly recommend running 2).
- drawing: with 3 hourglasses, you can begin your combo if you have 3 or fewer cards in your library, as long as you have both Fractal and Vulture in your hand. This will let Fractal give you more Vultures.
- 2 turn kills: sometimes you need to risk getting off an early combo, e.g. if you run out of shields. This is only viable against gods that won't suddenly kill you next turn (they may be holding a lot of creatures) or that can remove all your Vultures, or that have Miracle. Keep the deck lists of the various gods handy to know what they are running.
- keep track of your shield usage: sometimes it's really important to know if this is your 5th or your 6th shield!
- tweak the deck, throw in Time/Death Pendulums if you need them, or take pillars out. Add Sanctuary or Sundial or Shard of Sacrifice, or Purify as you see fit.
- Aflatoxin: if you have the Death Quanta and an Aflatoxin, play it on a creature that will die in the first Rain of Fire. The second Rain will kill the Malignant Cell, for an extra +1 for your Vultures.
- against Incarnate and Morte your Chimera can easily get over 400 attack due to the Boneyards.
Upgrades:
- Electrum Hourglasses are by far the most important upgrade, as they allow you to pay 1 Time to draw a card, instead of 2. Rain of Fire is useful to upgrade since it only costs 5, but Fire is generally not your limiting factor. Phase shields costing 5 can save your life, and allow you better Fractal timings. The extra +1 damage from an upgraded Vulture could potentially be useful, but this is unlikely (I have, however dealt 196 damage with no cards in my library, upgraded Vulture would have won that). Once you have upgraded your Towers/Pendulums, your return for your Electrum will be very low.
Win %s:
- you should be winning 35-55% of your matches against non-skip gods (about 1/3rd of them). Once you get some nice upgrades, this will look more like 45-75%. It takes me 4-5 minutes to beat a false god and 5 seconds for a skip, so you can easily do ~10-12 or so false gods an hour, with hopefully at least 5-6 victories. You tend to get a card every other win (although this can vary a lot). I've posted a number of stats on page 8 of this thread.
PvP:
- this deck is quite slow and vulnerable in PvP since many players will run poison or permanent destruction or some other way to get past your shields. You can pull off some satisfying wins (although it will take a long time with the pvp delay) and remember you generally only need to do 100 damage, although it takes a while to gather the quanta. Occasionally you can beat higher level (gold, plat) arena decks that don't include control elements, but generally you want to farm with a faster deck to get more spins per hour.
Remember: be careful of the order you play your cards in, and calculate carefully both the damage output and the quanta needed. Take your time towards the end of the game, if you make a mistake it's probably going to result in a loss
Well done guide. That hit all the points I had trouble with initially.
Post by: ColorlessGreen on April 03, 2013, 03:12:29 pm
I've been playing this deck quite a bit lately and introducing new players to it, so I thought I'd give ColorlessGreen's suggestion a go. I'm sure Chapuz can fill his time innovating great new decks ^_^.
Firstly, an introduction. What is firecell, and what is it meant to do? Fire cell is a deck that is used to defeat certain False Gods slowly but reliably by using a lot of stalling tactics followed by a massive combo. It's two main charms are that it is very cheap to build (can be played with no upgrades or rare cards), and that it is very fun to deal 200 (or more damage) in one turn.
Who are the False Gods? They are the ultimate AI you will face in Elements. They have 200 HP, draw extra cards and gain extra quanta. All their cards are upgraded, which makes them very challenging but also means that if you win cards from them, that those cards will also be upgraded. Since upgraded cards sell for over 1000 Electrum, this can provide solid (if unreliable) income of thousands of electrum per hour.
So what is the big combo used to make false gods explode? Firstly, you have to play Aflatoxin on one of their creatures, preferably a small one with 1 or 2 HP. Aflatoxin does 2 damage a turn to the target, and when the target dies (doesn't have to be from the poison), it turns into a Malignant Cell on the False God's side of the board. Every single turn, the Malignant Cell divides and spawns a copy of itself, so first there is 1, then 2, then 4, 8, 16, 23 (at 23 the board is full, and no more creatures can be played on that side). So now there will be a lot of cells trying to kill you. They will be failing thanks to your Dimensional Shields. Eventually, you will have drawn all the cards that you need for the combo (Golden Hourglasses help draw cards. So here is the combo:
- Aflatoxin - you've already used this to make cells
- Vulture - this critter gets +1/+1 every time something dies
- Fractal - cast it on the vulture and you will fill your hand with Vultures (before casting Fractal, you should have no more than 5 cards in hand)
- Play the 4+ Vultures from your hand that Fractal gave you
- Rain of Fire - cast this and kill all those cells on the other side of the board. Then watch as your Vultures grow to 20+ attack each
- Rain of Fire - cast another in case there are pesky creatures still standing that have more than 3 (but less than 6 health)
- Sky Blitz - this will double your Vultures' attack, meaning they will now hit for 40+ each
- Chimera - does your opponent have a massive Bone Wall or some other Shield? Cast Chimera and watch as you attack for more than 200 HP with a single creature
And that's the combo.
Strategy:
- stalling: you stall with Dimensional Shields, while drawing towards your combo with Hourglasses. Generally, only those gods with low levels of permanent control are viable for Firecell, and permanent control will always hit an Hourglass before a shield. Hopefully you can survive long enough to chain all your shields together, and often this means waiting until your health is in the 30-60 HP region. You can weather a few hits, but beware of creatures that deal poison damage as this will continue to hurt you after you play your shields. Generally you want to have another shield in your hand when you play one, or have an Hourglass on the field. If your Time Quanta income is low, don't play additional Hourglasses beyond the first, hold onto them to play later or discard. The same goes for the second Aflatoxin if you are low on Death Quanta. Also, never press spacebar without checking that your shield won't expire!
- malignant cells: the earlier you play Aflatoxin the better, as it gives the cells more time to divide, and once the board is full your opponent cannot play any more creatures which is very useful
- the kill: to win, you need the right cards in hand (or be able to guarantee that you draw them from Hourglasses that turn), you need to have your hand have as few cards as possible, to get the right number of Vultures. You carefully need to look at the number of creatures that you can kill (disregard those that are immortal or have more than 3 or 6 HP (depending on how many Rains of Fire you have). If there is a shield out, you may need to use Chimera.
- picking your targets and skips: this deck only works against about 10-13 of the 29 False Gods (depending on the exact cards used). Lots of gods will destroy your shields, and some, like Morning Glory, have no targets for you to Aflatoxin. Your best bet is to skip any gods that are impossible or very hard to beat. You lose 30 electrum, but that is much better than playing for 5 minutes with a high likelihood of losing anyway. Good targets are Destiny, Elidnis, Ferox, Fire Queen, Gemini, Incarnate, Miracle, Morte, Neptune, Paradox, Serket, Scorpio. Some of these are harder than others. Try all of them at least once and get a feel for what your deck can beat. Note that if you play on Kongregate, the white border hides the gods' names - you have to highlight or double-click the text in the upper right to read it.
The numbers:
- quanta requirements: for the minimum combo, you will need to play 5 Vultures (including the initial one), 1 Fractal, 1 Rain of Fire, and 1 Sky Blitz, for a total cost 15 Death, 10 Aether, 7 Fire, 9 Air. You may also need to play a second Rain of Fire (14 Fire total), extra Vultures from Fractal and Chimera (7 Gravity), as well as playing any last Dimensional Shields or Hourglasses in your hand to free up room for Fractal'd Vultures (you can have up to 8 cards in hand). Aether, Death and sometimes Fire will be your limiting resources in a typical game. If you are approaching the end of the game and seem short on quanta, stop drawing from your Hourglasses, so you have more turns. You will almost always be safe with the Shield chains by this point.
- the damage: the formula for your total damage is:Code: [Select]number of Vultures * (creatures that will be killed * 2 - shield absorption).
Be aware that creatures with Immortality will not be hit by Rain of Fire. You can negate the shield damage by using Chimera. Carefully work out how many Vultures you will have, if you have 5 cards in hand before playing Fractal, you will end with 4 Vultures in hand (5 in total). If you have 5 Vultures, e.g. your hand consists of Fractal, Rain of Fire, Rain of Fire, Sky Dive and Chimera, you will need to kill 20 creatures to guarantee a kill. If you can play 6 Vultures, you will need to kill 17 creatures. If you can only kill 15 creatures and there is a shield out that blocks 2 attack damage and you have no Chimera, you will need to play 8 Vultures.
Tips and tricks:
- discarding: at some point you need to look at your hand and decide if you will have enough room for Fractal'd Vultures. If you don't have the Quanta to drop your last Shields, Aflatoxin and Hourglasses, start keeping your hand full and discarding them every turn. Generally you only need 1 hourglass, 1 Aflatoxin and 3-5 shields.
- removal: sometimes you may need to use a single Rain of Fire to clear out dangerous creatures (Physalia) or if you have no shields, even after you've used Aflatoxin. This is a big risk (especially if you only have one Aflatoxin! I strongly recommend running 2).
- drawing: with 3 hourglasses, you can begin your combo if you have 3 or fewer cards in your library, as long as you have both Fractal and Vulture in your hand. This will let Fractal give you more Vultures.
- 2 turn kills: sometimes you need to risk getting off an early combo, e.g. if you run out of shields. This is only viable against gods that won't suddenly kill you next turn (they may be holding a lot of creatures) or that can remove all your Vultures, or that have Miracle. Keep the deck lists of the various gods handy to know what they are running.
- keep track of your shield usage: sometimes it's really important to know if this is your 5th or your 6th shield!
- tweak the deck, throw in Time/Death Pendulums if you need them, or take pillars out. Add Sanctuary or Sundial or Shard of Sacrifice, or Purify as you see fit.
- Aflatoxin: if you have the Death Quanta and an Aflatoxin, play it on a creature that will die in the first Rain of Fire. The second Rain will kill the Malignant Cell, for an extra +1 for your Vultures.
- against Incarnate and Morte your Chimera can easily get over 400 attack due to the Boneyards.
Upgrades:
- Electrum Hourglasses are by far the most important upgrade, as they allow you to pay 1 Time to draw a card, instead of 2. Rain of Fire is useful to upgrade since it only costs 5, but Fire is generally not your limiting factor. Phase shields costing 5 can save your life, and allow you better Fractal timings. The extra +1 damage from an upgraded Vulture could potentially be useful, but this is unlikely (I have, however dealt 196 damage with no cards in my library, upgraded Vulture would have won that). Once you have upgraded your Towers/Pendulums, your return for your Electrum will be very low.
Win %s:
- you should be winning 35-55% of your matches against non-skip gods (about 1/3rd of them). Once you get some nice upgrades, this will look more like 45-75%. It takes me 4-5 minutes to beat a false god and 5 seconds for a skip, so you can easily do ~10-12 or so false gods an hour, with hopefully at least 5-6 victories. You tend to get a card every other win (although this can vary a lot). I've posted a number of stats on page 8 of this thread.
PvP:
- this deck is quite slow and vulnerable in PvP since many players will run poison or permanent destruction or some other way to get past your shields. You can pull off some satisfying wins (although it will take a long time with the pvp delay) and remember you generally only need to do 100 damage, although it takes a while to gather the quanta. Occasionally you can beat higher level (gold, plat) arena decks that don't include control elements, but generally you want to farm with a faster deck to get more spins per hour.
Remember: be careful of the order you play your cards in, and calculate carefully both the damage output and the quanta needed. Take your time towards the end of the game, if you make a mistake it's probably going to result in a loss
Thanks fyresentinel, that's pretty much awesome. The only thing I've got to add right now (which you actually cover, but it bears repeating) is a line towards the beginning (probably around where you start describing the combo) in bold saying something like:
Remember, in almost all cases, do not play vulture, fractal, sky blitz, chimera, and at least one (preferably both) rain of fire until you are ready to deliver the killing blow.
Somewhere down in the tips and tricks section you could mention that against non-healing, low-CC targets you can aim for a 2HKO in some circumstances.
But, yeah, that looks wonderful. I have no doubt that some of the new people who pick up this deck still won't read that, but at least now they have no excuse, and the people who actually want to do their due diligence learning how to play the deck should have a much better time with it.
Post by: nakedoldguy on April 05, 2013, 12:09:28 am
(http://i.imgur.com/JHCQdig.png)
Post by: Chapuz on April 05, 2013, 01:35:55 am
Post by: epocnys on April 05, 2013, 03:40:45 am
Posted and formated the detailed guide in the OP. Thank you very much fyresentinel!
Any chance to get the FG list alpha sorted for first timers having to scan the list for skips?
Chaos Lord
Decay
Destiny
Dream Catcher
Elidnis
Ferox
Fire Queen
Gemini
Hecate
Incarnate
Lionheart (win by deckout, use all the shields!!)
Miracle
Neptune
Paradox
Serket
Decay
Destiny
Dream Catcher
Elidnis
Ferox
Fire Queen
Gemini
Hecate
Incarnate
Lionheart (win by deckout, use all the shields!!)
Miracle
Neptune
Paradox
Serket
Post by: iancudorinmarian on April 13, 2013, 06:35:12 pm
Post by: Chapuz on April 13, 2013, 07:43:08 pm
Is this better than Limitless speed?The difference is actually in the taste, is it may have a bit more of consistency against the winnable FGs (5-card combo most of the times instead of 8 ) while having a pair of extra skips like Lionheart.
Post by: Dhanzig on April 13, 2013, 09:28:54 pm
but no deck listed contains one o.O Can you post a spoiler with the decks history in the OP?
Post by: Chapuz on April 13, 2013, 09:41:38 pm
Every screen cap has Sanctuary but no deck listed contains one o.O Can you post a spoiler with the decks history in the OP?There was a bulkier version before, with about 40-45 cards and some Sanctuaries. I found this one is better even with Decay being a bit harder.
Post by: iancudorinmarian on April 14, 2013, 11:30:04 am
Post by: Chapuz on April 14, 2013, 02:31:53 pm
Against Incarnate you can discard the sky blitz if you use 2 RoF, because he'll refill his field with skeletons.true, but that doesn't compensate making a 470 att Chimera >:(
Post by: Dhanzig on April 15, 2013, 12:16:26 am
out within the first 5 turns every match so far! Turn 2 this last game :o
Post by: iancudorinmarian on April 15, 2013, 07:29:27 am
Post by: iancudorinmarian on April 15, 2013, 10:56:50 am
Am I doing something wrong?
Post by: Chapuz on April 15, 2013, 11:03:59 am
I don't think this deck can beat hecate, I never won against him, I even tried alfatoxin+purify, but he still killed me in the end.hecate is hard, try to kill a low HP doll ASAP with your afla
Am I doing something wrong?
Post by: Pituboy on April 21, 2013, 03:03:51 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/gc9qrcB.jpg?1)
Post by: Dhanzig on April 22, 2013, 07:41:44 pm
and find if I can get it early enough (vs Elidnis, in particular) it guarantees the match. I think only Lionheart doesn't play the MCs you give him but you don't want MC's on his board anyway. Also I have TERRIBLE luck with QT's ... so I've opted for 4 SN's. I can't be the only player, end game, looking at 40-50 :life :water :earth :darkness and like 3 or less :death :time :fire . I'm certain, since I started playing Magic in the late 90's, that the card gods hate me! SN helps a LOT!
Post by: FrogTyrant on April 23, 2013, 10:53:29 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/dlH6fdf.png)
7 Vultures (Fractaled before I had all the cards, I knew I would draw them with Hourglasses)
He had 2 Vampires so the first RoF killed 21 second RoF killed 23 he also had Eclipse giving the Vultures + 2
So:
(Eclipse + RoF1 + RoF2) * SB * Vultures
(2 + 21 + 23) * 2 * 7 = 644
7 Vultures (Fractaled before I had all the cards, I knew I would draw them with Hourglasses)
He had 2 Vampires so the first RoF killed 21 second RoF killed 23 he also had Eclipse giving the Vultures + 2
So:
(Eclipse + RoF1 + RoF2) * SB * Vultures
(2 + 21 + 23) * 2 * 7 = 644
Post by: Chapuz on April 23, 2013, 11:14:44 pm
644 AtkTotally cooly overkill, even more than the traditional overkill o.o(http://i.imgur.com/dlH6fdf.png)
7 Vultures (Fractaled before I had all the cards, I knew I would draw them with Hourglasses)
He had 2 Vampires so the first RoF killed 21 second RoF killed 23 he also had Eclipse giving the Vultures + 2
So:
(Eclipse + RoF1 + RoF2) * SB * Vultures
(2 + 21 + 23) * 2 * 7 = 644
Post by: Luminous on April 25, 2013, 05:12:16 pm
Post by: redyul on April 30, 2013, 12:14:40 pm
If should be taken out of the FG list
Post by: Antisocial on May 23, 2013, 05:34:19 pm
Post by: CuCN on May 23, 2013, 05:43:26 pm
Nice deck, but you should note that you can't actually beat lionheart by deck-out unless I'm extremely unlucky or something. 3 times vs him and he just eternities/crusader eternity endowed he's scarabs back to the top of he's deck hence, he cant deck out.
He has a tendency to make everything immortal and then not be able to rewind anything.
Post by: Chapuz on May 23, 2013, 05:45:10 pm
Nice deck, but you should note that you can't actually beat lionheart by deck-out unless I'm extremely unlucky or something. 3 times vs him and he just eternities/crusader eternity endowed he's scarabs back to the top of he's deck hence, he cant deck out.You are, actually, unlucy against Lionheart. He uses to quint all his creatures, ending in no rewindable creatures (it depends if he plays anubis or eternities in the beginning of the game).
Other times he can only rewind 1 creature, ending in decking out too (because he has 2x draw), so the only way he can't deck out is playing 2 eternities (or crusaders) before his first Anubis.
Post by: ColorlessGreen on May 23, 2013, 05:48:26 pm
Nice deck, but you should note that you can't actually beat lionheart by deck-out unless I'm extremely unlucky or something. 3 times vs him and he just eternities/crusader eternity endowed he's scarabs back to the top of he's deck hence, he cant deck out.
He has a tendency to make everything immortal and then not be able to rewind anything.
He will sometimes stop quinting scarabs when he's low on cards if he doesn't already have a full quinted field before he hits <=5 cards remaining in order to bounce them. This appears to be a trick which was deliberately taught to him by Zanz, though I'm not 100% sure about that specific part of it.
However, he seems to eventually "forget" that he's not quinting things so as to survive deckout, and either plays a new creature (if he has one) and quints it, or just goes ahead and quints the scarabs he's been bouncing. Not really sure what the AI "thought" process is there, but often if you wait around long enough, you can still get the deckout even if he is bouncing with eternity. It can sometimes take several turns for him to "forget" and quint stuff.
It's certainly possible to lose to him if he gets into a scarab bouncing loop and doesn't "forget" and deck out soon enough, though.
Post by: nanoman999 on May 24, 2013, 01:23:27 am
I love this deck. It has become my new fav ai4 farmer. I have won 3 upped cards in the past six ai4 games and won 4 of the matches. Only thing i changed before even using it against ai4 was adding 1 more vulture because i didn't get the vulture until the third to last card. Still won tho :P
Post by: Chapuz on May 24, 2013, 02:24:19 am
Don't want to read all of the other replies on this post so i might sound a bit redundant but:Why another vulture? You should have enough with the Fractal to get 200+ damage most of the times
I love this deck. It has become my new fav ai4 farmer. I have won 3 upped cards in the past six ai4 games and won 4 of the matches. Only thing i changed before even using it against ai4 was adding 1 more vulture because i didn't get the vulture until the third to last card. Still won tho :P
Post by: nanoman999 on May 25, 2013, 01:37:32 am
Why another vulture? You should have enough with the Fractal to get 200+ damage most of the times
[/quote]
aha ya, but there are times when the aflatoxin just doesn't come in fast enough, or that opponent plays just a few too many high hp cards and that small extra boost really allows you to oneshot kill. And LOLS :'( against a lvl 4 i was about to win with my 216atk chimera and had 1 card left to draw. i used one of my hourglasses to make the game closer (just makes me feel good ;) ) and was at 0 cards. then out of curiosity i used another one and lost. so sad. Oh well, enough ranting. I love this deck and gave it a 5/5. Its just bad with quanta denial and perm control.
Post by: Chapuz on June 26, 2013, 10:43:56 pm
hey guys just trying to decide which way to go on my 1st FG deck: devonian frOTKal or this firecell? Plus should i work toward the limitless or just up one of these once i actually get some moneyI would say Firecell insteas of Dev FrOTKal, because it's smaller so you don't lack of shields. I also suggest making Limitless Speed as soon as possible (or upgrade the hourglasses and keep this deck) until you can make a consistent upped bronze grinder for shards
Post by: Chapuz on June 29, 2013, 02:05:50 pm
the closest i got was 190 vs. firequeen. last card and epic failWeird, Fire queen easy to kill because you don't even need an afla. Are you getting 5-6 vultures?
Post by: Pineapple on June 30, 2013, 05:07:12 pm
ok so i just got your firecell and trying the strategy now will let you guys know the results..............((couple hours later)) not 1 win at all so bad i had to reset my acct again, its cool tho im getting used 2 it................((next day)) got the set up in trainer to give it another chance cause ive never got bad advice from chaputz since im less frusterated today.
the closest i got was 190 vs. firequeen. last card and epic fail
Um...Just checking...you understand the core concept behind the deck, right? Stall, draw, and keep the combo cards in your hand, then on the last turn play all the combo cards in the correct order to deal more than 200 damage in one turn giving the enemy no chance to react?
I don't see how Fire Queen would have HP between 200 and 0 if you're playing it correctly..
Post by: redyul on July 01, 2013, 09:12:54 am
It happened the same to me. it is not matter of luck. They have improved AI possibly.... : Lionheart always leaves 1 -2 without immortality and keeps on sending back in the deck. it is clear his strategy and it happens all the time i played so it is not l coincidence that he never decks out. i stopped playing against him and loosing coins.Nice deck, but you should note that you can't actually beat lionheart by deck-out unless I'm extremely unlucky or something. 3 times vs him and he just eternities/crusader eternity endowed he's scarabs back to the top of he's deck hence, he cant deck out.You are, actually, unlucy against Lionheart. He uses to quint all his creatures, ending in no rewindable creatures (it depends if he plays anubis or eternities in the beginning of the game).
Other times he can only rewind 1 creature, ending in decking out too (because he has 2x draw), so the only way he can't deck out is playing 2 eternities (or crusaders) before his first Anubis.
Same issue with my previous comment on other FG.
Quite like the deck. i played the non rare version against Hecate twice lost. it was slow and my shields where nullified
If should be taken out of the FG list
I believe deck is still very good for an un upped/ rareless with a brilliant combo ;D but the list needs amendments
Incarnate 240 EM (http://i.imgur.com/M6E9JYb.png)
max damage 460 EM L3 (http://i.imgur.com/jRjXecU.png)
Post by: ColorlessGreen on July 01, 2013, 03:09:08 pm
You are, actually, unlucy against Lionheart. He uses to quint all his creatures, ending in no rewindable creatures (it depends if he plays anubis or eternities in the beginning of the game).It happened the same to me. it is not matter of luck. They have improved AI possibly.... : Lionheart always leaves 1 -2 without immortality and keeps on sending back in the deck. it is clear his strategy and it happens all the time i played so it is not l coincidence that he never decks out. i stopped playing against him and loosing coins.
Other times he can only rewind 1 creature, ending in decking out too (because he has 2x draw), so the only way he can't deck out is playing 2 eternities (or crusaders) before his first Anubis.
Same issue with my previous comment on other FG.
Lionheart does not always leave 1-2 unquinted. He often does, but he almost always winds up actually quinting them eventually, and frequently winds up with them quinted before he hits the deckout panic stage (<=5 cards remaining in deck, which is when he starts RT'ing his own creatures).
Just keep going when he's in that situation - he'll usually quint his creatures eventually and then deckout.
Post by: Chapuz on July 01, 2013, 05:32:47 pm
Post by: CuCN on July 01, 2013, 06:43:04 pm
Also, remember that in the cases Lionheart can rewind only 1 creature, he will deck out too (because of the double draw). The only cases he doesn't deck out is when he rewinds 2 creatures.But his hand can get clogged up with extra shields, quintessences, creatures that can't be played because of space, etc., so that he only draws one card per turn.
Post by: Chapuz on July 01, 2013, 06:50:21 pm
I just remember myself beating him many timed by deckout, and seem not to be the only one. I suggest not to skip Lionheart because it's an easy win, but iit'a up to you.Also, remember that in the cases Lionheart can rewind only 1 creature, he will deck out too (because of the double draw). The only cases he doesn't deck out is when he rewinds 2 creatures.But his hand can get clogged up with extra shields, quintessences, creatures that can't be played because of space, etc., so that he only draws one card per turn.
Post by: redyul on July 02, 2013, 08:30:56 am
You are, actually, unlucy against Lionheart. He uses to quint all his creatures, ending in no rewindable creatures (it depends if he plays anubis or eternities in the beginning of the game).It happened the same to me. it is not matter of luck. They have improved AI possibly.... : Lionheart always leaves 1 -2 without immortality and keeps on sending back in the deck. it is clear his strategy and it happens all the time i played so it is not l coincidence that he never decks out. i stopped playing against him and loosing coins.
Other times he can only rewind 1 creature, ending in decking out too (because he has 2x draw), so the only way he can't deck out is playing 2 eternities (or crusaders) before his first Anubis.
Same issue with my previous comment on other FG.
Lionheart does not always leave 1-2 unquinted. He often does, but he almost always winds up actually quinting them eventually, and frequently winds up with them quinted before he hits the deckout panic stage (<=5 cards remaining in deck, which is when he starts RT'ing his own creatures).
Just keep going when he's in that situation - he'll usually quint his creatures eventually and then deckout.
understand however all the time I played i had 9 card left and he had 5 I ended up decking out before him. even if he draws 2 at the time. Some how he menages to aknowledge that and slow down drowing card. I agree "always" is not statistically correct. "most of the time" it does not deck out. I would say.
Post by: redyul on July 02, 2013, 08:37:43 am
I just remember myself beating him many timed by deckout, and seem not to be the only one. I suggest not to skip Lionheart because it's an easy win, but iit'a up to you.Also, remember that in the cases Lionheart can rewind only 1 creature, he will deck out too (because of the double draw). The only cases he doesn't deck out is when he rewinds 2 creatures.But his hand can get clogged up with extra shields, quintessences, creatures that can't be played because of space, etc., so that he only draws one card per turn.
I'll try harder then... however so far stats are not proving that. I respect your experience. I'll try again.
May I ask how long ago you played? It seems that the other comment was reasonably recent as well. while this list was compiled some time ago. Could it be possible a change in Lionhearth strategy?
I think I get the strategy of the deck. as you have seen from my wins pics. I might do something wrong on lionhearth :'(
this still remains a extremely effective deck/ strategy.
Post by: Chapuz on July 02, 2013, 01:04:15 pm
Post by: freeyourmind on July 02, 2013, 06:35:51 pm
chapuz: i had 5 vultures.
i cant believe im saying this but im tempted to try this firecell again even thou i couldnt do a dang thing with it last time. I just never had chapuz steer me wrong. at the VERY least it has most of the cards for limitless. i simply MUST win vs some FGs to advance in the game. bronze/pvp1 help but still not enough.
Post by: redyul on July 02, 2013, 11:13:45 pm
Use ALL your shields, don't draw like a mad cow, don't discard them!
Thanks for the advice! I'll be double cautious
I like the mad cow drawing feature! it could be a new card!
I draw only when i do not have a shield on me to play... and i treat my shields better than my mummy I never discard them.... be sure....
I am so tempted to ask you to watch a game... ;D
it is given that I am playing the un-upped rareless version btw...
Post by: freeyourmind on July 08, 2013, 05:34:20 pm
+rep thanks homie BTW almost snuck one on morte
264 chimera takes down incarnate
Post by: tommygunner on July 16, 2013, 11:13:32 am
you can very well get a chimera with 300+ attack
Post by: Chapuz on July 16, 2013, 11:09:08 pm
Id say when battling incarnate its really easy to get a REALLY high attack because of multiple RoFs and graveyardYeah, my max was 470 :)
you can very well get a chimera with 300+ attack
Post by: koodles on August 04, 2013, 09:12:57 am
Post by: kotoff on August 10, 2013, 06:57:09 am
Post by: Chapuz on August 10, 2013, 02:59:24 pm
I've played this deck on trainer a lot and it didnt work even once. For me its 0% on winnable FGs :/Are you playing it right? Are you playing all the combo in the same turn, Vulture included?
Post by: drulles on August 20, 2013, 10:33:26 pm
I like it :D
Post by: Zergva on August 20, 2013, 10:59:12 pm
Post by: drulles on August 21, 2013, 10:56:11 am
EDIT: just did a 504, this deck is insane :p
(http://i.imgur.com/Tf7hzYT.png) (http://imgur.com/Tf7hzYT)
Post by: xyan on August 29, 2013, 12:57:39 am
between 3 and 4 hrs:
wins - 28
losses played - 19
quits - 48
cards won - 13
EMs - 6
half of the wins were due to drawing shield too late. lionheart didnt deck himself once. and a few were from misjudging or lacking OTK damage.
Also, i have trouble with gemini rushing gravity dragon with momentum, hecate ragevoodooing b4 i get a shield, and decay placing lots of pests faster than i can shield or aflatoxin a pest or let alone gain enough quanta to do anything later. chaos and dream consistently get PC with me having no way to stop them, so i added them to my insta-quits. if my quits seem large, it is cause i hit a octane 8 times in a row, with much bad luck in my 2nd hour with some of the matchups.
here is one screenie: the only game in the last 5 times i faced incarnate that i didnt EM from early shield/purify.
(http://i.imgur.com/XCxzZtP.jpg?1?9554)
Post by: oasis77 on September 01, 2013, 03:46:00 pm
Post by: Fareley on September 15, 2013, 10:34:15 am
I started to upgrade the pillars; got an upgraded vulture and fractal as a spin (and as it turns out the extra 1 dmg on the Condor is REALLY helpful)
I also added 2 Sanctuaries, which not only allow for a much higher chance of EM, but also give me a fighting chance against fractaled devourer and Discord (although most of the time I skip the Discord FG)
as a side note, when going up against the life/water FG (Elidnis), often times you have to go for a TTK (due to Quintessences/pumped forest spectre). He cannot kill your Vultures, only freeze them, so play your combo but hold on to both chimera and sky blitz. Then the next turn play sky blitz and chimera, unfreezing your Vultures in the process.
Also often times I find myself having problems getting one hourglass up, let alone all 4 until I run out of cards. So I have both a slow start and manage my hand so I can discard one or two of them. Maybe trading a few Quantum Pillars for Aether Pillars/Towers and starting with a Time mark would help the reliability of the deck for the early game (drawing cards faster -> getting shields up just as early as now due to more pillars available and more chance of getting the shields)
Post by: blackjoop on September 17, 2013, 06:58:01 am
I started with this Deck farming false gods, and its very funny! And effective !
My current version is now this :
The Additions to this Deck Are the Sanctuarys, one more Purify, some time Penelums and an Eclipse.
With the sanctuarys i nearly almost get an EM when winning ( and if i dont haste too much with the Hourglasses ). And i got to manage Decay with his Pest/Devourers better.
With the additional Purify and the Sanctuarys i got also to manage Morte most of the times, if I purify late...
And the Eclipse helps is i got too less :death quantum for the needed Vultures, or if there were too many creatures with high healtpoints which dont get killed by rain of fire ( for 5 Condors or Vultures it gets you additional 20 damage ( with Sky Blitz )
The Time Penelums helps with the Hourglasses to get them up fast, and get as much as possible, if some FG steals / destroys them.
Its quite huge, but if you play some time with it with the right strategy, its very effective.
So, THX for this deck, and good luck farming !
Post by: Cthulhu on October 08, 2013, 08:49:49 pm
Post by: AlterOfYume on October 19, 2013, 07:26:42 am
Post by: MarimoZ on October 22, 2013, 05:30:33 am
Post by: Submachine on October 22, 2013, 10:48:09 am
Post by: Cthulhu on October 23, 2013, 06:24:32 pm
Do sanctuaries usually give u guys mastery?
I use it to help with gods that mess with your quanta pool. IT doesn't help much but there's always that game where you get it out on turn 2 and ruin all the black holes.
Post by: zazakmazak on October 31, 2013, 10:06:15 am
i have got 400/200 chimera aginist incarnate :D
i try to insert image...
(http://C:\Documents and Settings\Zdeněk\Plocha\TOP-Hive\elements decks)
Post by: Drake_XIV on October 31, 2013, 04:21:29 pm
Post by: twidenbar on November 12, 2013, 11:31:38 am
Post by: Chapuz on November 12, 2013, 07:48:20 pm
how well does the unupped version do? looking to farm some FG to make the money for an upped verson, also any variations since the newest update? like cards that could be added or removed to make it any better?You can look at the comments, there is much feedback about different variations used by the players :)
Post by: Archaeo on December 22, 2013, 08:49:12 pm
Great deck btw thank you for making it.
Post by: jade_giant on January 10, 2014, 06:32:52 am
Dim Shield -> Hecate counters: Dolls ignore shields, and.........STEAL!!!!
Aflatoxin for cells -> Hecate counter: Rage Potions
Hecate seems built specifically to counter this deck. I've tried 5 times and lost every one. Not a big sample size I know, but none of them were even close. An average draw for Hecate gives her counters to the main parts of this deck. Why is she on the suggested list? Am I missing something else?
Post by: Pineapple on January 10, 2014, 06:53:14 am
Okay, although I do like this deck I have to ask: has ANYONE beaten Hecate with this?? I saw Chapuz's suggestions and even executed (afla a small HP doll). As soon as the cell appeared, Hecate raged it. Based on the average rate at which dolls are raged that's a pretty common result. Looking at the main parts of this deck:
Dim Shield -> Hecate counters: Dolls ignore shields, and.........STEAL!!!!
Aflatoxin for cells -> Hecate counter: Rage Potions
Hecate seems built specifically to counter this deck. I've tried 5 times and lost every one. Not a big sample size I know, but none of them were even close. An average draw for Hecate gives her counters to the main parts of this deck. Why is she on the suggested list? Am I missing something else?
She only has 12 Rage Elixirs, and she loves to use them on her Voodoo Dolls, so it's not too rare that she has no Rage Elixirs in her hand the turn the Malignant Cell appears. As for surviving long enough to pull off your combo against her extremely high amounts of PC, that's also luck. Also, if I remember correctly the list is of False Gods you shouldn't auto-quit against, not False Gods that are easy. If we only counted gods the deck has a 50%+ chance to win against, we'd have a really small list.
Post by: xxgreedygodx on March 20, 2014, 05:52:21 am
Post by: Chapuz on March 20, 2014, 11:22:56 am
i keep getting stuck at my chimera having 190 attack like i will have no more cards left and 2 rof 1 vulture 1 sky blitz 1 fractal 1 chimera which will leave me with 1 vulture short of OTK'ing opponent am i doing anything wrongMaybe it's bad luck. Against which FG?
Post by: Keeps on March 20, 2014, 01:11:14 pm
Here were my thoughts at the time:
It seemd most of the time it was against FGs with a few big creatures (decks you don't always win against in the first place)
or
It was against higher win FGs, that had a heavier rush, but one of the two draws didn't happen
a 2nd firestorm to kill off some of it's higher HP creatures along with the cells.
or
a dim shield didn't show and I was going to die prematurely.
So I was often in the forced count damage routing, of how much am I going to get, can I survive the next attack, does this FG heal and if not, can I do a 100 damage hit now, block the damage with the chimera, resetup in time, etc, and then either choose to quit because it's a loss or keep playing because I could win...
It's actually why I recommend LS over this for newbies, even though I won more with this, I wasted a lot of time wondering will the combo come and work in time... I'm certain if I played it more, I could make the call pretty quickly on the first couple rounds how the game will go, but I was well past the point where I would regularly use this deck by the time I saw this, and didn't invest the time.
Post by: xxgreedygodx on March 20, 2014, 07:27:35 pm
Post by: omegareaper7 on March 20, 2014, 09:53:03 pm
well im taking the extra ROF out of it so i will have the extra vulture for the full 200 chimera FTKExtra vulture is much worse then extra rain of fire. extra rain of fire means many more possible kills.
Post by: xxgreedygodx on March 21, 2014, 04:22:48 am
Post by: omegareaper7 on March 21, 2014, 04:10:18 pm
yeah but like how else am i supposed to get 200 and not 190 like i always do haKill more creatures, which is exactly what a second rain of fire would do.
Post by: Jonny on April 29, 2014, 10:42:50 am
(http://i.snag.gy/fgkNl.jpg)
PS: I had a Nymph queen as pet. ;)
Post by: jarozaoz on April 29, 2014, 02:01:51 pm
Post by: Deary Mee on May 08, 2014, 08:34:40 pm
Also how is Dream Catcher doable? So far 5/5 I lost due to one of it's creatures gaining destroy ability within the first couple turns...
Post by: hobocrocodile on May 17, 2014, 07:07:12 pm
But, I don't know if it's worth adding him to the winnable list because I probably just got insanely lucky and got the 00.01% chance, but I did just win against Hermes. I didn't skip because I just wanted to see what some of the unwinnable FGs did that made them unwinnable. He got a really bad draw... never getting any explosions, so he didn't destroy any of my dims or hourglasses, and only hitting me with one fire lance. I miscounted or something and didn't get the OTK, but I won with a second attack on my last turn. So I guess it IS possible, but HIGHLY improbable.
(http://i.imgur.com/6Dl5IbF.png)
Post by: jarozaoz on May 17, 2014, 07:23:30 pm
Congratulations ;D
Post by: CrockettRocket on May 17, 2014, 07:30:31 pm
Idk if this is the actual logic behind calling it impossible, but thats what I tell myself so I can live and be perfectly comfortable calling something impossbile despite "If man can conceive, and believe, then it can achieve." Frankly nothing is truly impossible, especially the FGs with an OTK deck.
Post by: hobocrocodile on May 19, 2014, 02:16:07 am
(http://i.imgur.com/pE1T46v.png)
Although, I'm not really sure why he's not on the list of winnable ones anyway... he doesn't have any PC. Too much poisoning? I think if you get your shields up and play purify at the right time, shouldn't be too much an issue. I just got really lucky on this one with a bad draw; He only got one poison on me and didn't get the Arsenic out until the turn before the OTK.
Post by: CrockettRocket on May 19, 2014, 04:58:09 am
Post by: bilibull on May 19, 2014, 05:23:40 pm
(https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Screenshots/Screenshot%202014-05-19%2013.07.56.png?_subject_uid=212960399&w=AACKguZTNYQC7pAV0nbktLFVxI7CvPwY3wh2xpR7e1rOzQ)
Post by: hobocrocodile on May 20, 2014, 02:30:39 am
Post by: zhanming11 on July 08, 2014, 03:45:57 pm
That is what my deck looks like ALMOST all my wins result in EM's because it helps put your hp to 99 then if u have purify or have heal in your deck then you would have EM
Sometimes I use the Miracle as a extra dim shield because it restores you to -1 full hp. This deck helped me a lot.
But there are some problems :
1: I Dont know if i should keep another aflatoxin one seems enough BUT ONCE MY ONE WAS THE LAST CARD I MEAN LITERALLY
2: There are still some false gods that are still unbeatable but some of the unbeatable is beatable
Such as :
Eternal Phoenix : it might have some explosions but still if u dont lower your hp too low and put the shields out early you will win they some times explode your dim shields but dont worry they ALMOST ALWAYS get bad draws so just go with flow also this problem can be helped because of the miracle that I put in my deck.
Morte : He is killable but the thing is you have to time the time you should put purify remember he only has around 6 poison so he has 18 dam. he also has arsenic which is why it is A REALLY GOOD IDEA to put out a dim shield before and dont lower your hp
Scorpio : He is also killable as long as you have a shield out and put purify at right time then you are good. Like Morte ^^
This is all I can say some of these are killable but some are just UNBEATABLE
My miracle almost guarantees that I am going to have EM
Also The super nova is just a quick way of getting quanta while it cost 2 :entropy I will get 2 of all quanta
EM gets you 120 :electrum each time (>.<)
Post by: ademut on July 16, 2014, 07:06:27 pm
I think we should add a miracle to the deck since we dont have use any :light quantaIf you want the humble opinion of a noob that has just started to deal with FG farming, the variant with miracle looks fine, but it works mainly (and great!) for the EM, I have almost never used it as extra shield because it's not needed: I can't use it in early game (too much quanta required, even upped) and normally onceI pass the early phase I should have drawn enough DS (or EH to try and draw them) to survive until the combo..definitely helps against Morte and poisoning in general, but need to get the :light quanta in time
.....
That is what my deck looks like ALMOST all my wins result in EM's because it helps put your hp to 99 then if u have purify or have heal in your deck then you would have EM
Sometimes I use the Miracle as a extra dim shield because it restores you to -1 full hp. This deck helped me a lot.
But there are some problems :
1: I Dont know if i should keep another aflatoxin one seems enough BUT ONCE MY ONE WAS THE LAST CARD I MEAN LITERALLY
2: There are still some false gods that are still unbeatable but some of the unbeatable is beatable
Such as :
Eternal Phoenix : it might have some explosions but still if u dont lower your hp too low and put the shields out early you will win they some times explode your dim shields but dont worry they ALMOST ALWAYS get bad draws so just go with flow also this problem can be helped because of the miracle that I put in my deck.
Morte : He is killable but the thing is you have to time the time you should put purify remember he only has around 6 poison so he has 18 dam. he also has arsenic which is why it is A REALLY GOOD IDEA to put out a dim shield before and dont lower your hp
Scorpio : He is also killable as long as you have a shield out and put purify at right time then you are good. Like Morte ^^
This is all I can say some of these are killable but some are just UNBEATABLE
My miracle almost guarantees that I am going to have EM
Also The super nova is just a quick way of getting quanta while it cost 2 :entropy I will get 2 of all quanta
EM gets you 120 :electrum each time (>.<)
Also, I don't know about the supernova, at a first look it is redundant, but it might help to speed up the early phases, aka to play quickly afla or EH
Same for heal, apparently redundant, but might help
Imho two aflatoxins are necessary instead, too important to drawn one early, and even if it's annoying as I'm often forced to fill up my hand to discard it (as well as the 2nd RoF) to get more space for the pigeons, it might be useful to play it as CC (quite rare actually), or as last resource after a forced early RoF (no shields/annoying Creatures)..
Post by: jtmjtw1 on July 18, 2014, 04:40:08 am
Heh, Incarnate is always the best for this deck, because there are all these Boneyards. I remember time, when at Incarnate i maked 103x Bone Walls by just 2 RoF (and 6 boneyards) LOL ;D ♥So... fighting incarnate, I forget to use sky blitz on the vultures before chimera. Still otk'd him/her/it/them, because I had 2 RoFs and incarnate had 5 boneyards. Bonewall count: 107. I would post a screenshot, but it is late where I am and I can't seem to find a "post picture" button. I took a screenshot of the turn, I just don't know how to add it to the post.
Post by: Fippe94 on July 18, 2014, 10:10:47 am
Post by: Pineapple on August 03, 2014, 05:16:53 pm
AI will be silly enough to clog up its field with a low-HP creatures, denying itself quanta whenever it can. Mitosis also costs 1 quanta less than Aflatoxin and doesn't strain your resource for pumping out Vultures. Perhaps it's even possible to create a variant without Aflatoxin (though then it wouldn't be Firecell anymore).
Nightmare too. Hand clogging if you target a weapon, and healing.
Post by: Drake_XIV on August 03, 2014, 06:07:48 pm
Post by: Egarran on August 25, 2014, 01:49:33 pm
I also added a Time Tower - it doesn't hurt the deck and it's great when it comes down early.
This did teach me lots of things e.g. what OTK means and never to play Sundial when attacking...
Post by: serprex on August 28, 2014, 10:38:42 pm
Post by: Egarran on September 11, 2014, 06:32:11 pm
I'm using upped sundials now, it has never been a problem.
Post by: drcatastrophie on May 06, 2015, 01:07:19 pm
Post by: Cid84 on May 29, 2015, 08:43:00 am
Regarding the Gemini question: if you use Sundials he becomes rather "easy". Only use them if absolutely necessary (i.e.: a single Phase Recluse with Unstoppable is no reason, if you are at/near full HP!). If he gets out of hand early on (meaning 2-3 unstoppable Phase Recluse), you can use one of the Rain of Fire (ideally you put an Aflatoxin on one of them first). Since Phase Recluse and Cells are low HP, you will only need one anyway (it is very unlikely that you will kill a dragon).
Eternal Phoenix is worth a try imo. If he gets many Explosions at the beginning you can quit without losing much time. If not you have a good chance at beating him!
By now I am using this deck (Fire Storm from Eternal Phoenix):
Sanctuary helps a lot against Decay and is good for many EM wins. Purify obviously against Serket and Morte (I actually never really tried Scorpio, maybe it is time to change that ;) )
Edit: 5-1 against Scorpio since I started playing against him. Not really a sample size but he is worth a try imo.
Post by: dworthy on June 05, 2015, 09:41:46 am
up to the hundreds. And that doesn't matter anyway. Nice!
Post by: Mika on September 25, 2018, 12:55:05 pm
This seems to be one of the few decks that can bring a
i atcually had that today.. a bone wall with 101x also managed to get a chimera to 450atk was quite interesting and funny to see that to be honest