*Author

Clathius

  • Guest
Re: Discords Flying into a Black Hole https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8537.msg99688#msg99688
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2010, 12:21:24 am »

By turn 4, most rush decks will have enough creatures out that even if you lock them at that point, you will be overrun.   


Jumbalumba

  • Guest
Re: Discords Flying into a Black Hole https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8537.msg99767#msg99767
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2010, 03:37:32 am »
By turn 4, most rush decks will have enough creatures out that even if you lock them at that point, you will be overrun.
You will be overrun with the deck suggested by Sg because it doesn't have enough attacking power. What I'm suggesting is to have a basic rush deck but with Discords for annoyance. You won't get overrun because you'll be rushing anyway. You'll be a bit slower but the scattered quanta and Black Hole will heal you to make up for it.

Jumba, if you can't understand the importance of the early discords then you clearly have not tried this deck or similar gravity/discord decks out yet.
I'm not sure how you people can say I don't know what I'm talking about when I've used just the decks I have been talking about in tournaments with decent success. I don't see people using rainbow Discord decks at all but I have seen some mono Discord or duo Discord decks. Does that mean nobody in tournaments knows what they are doing? Hmm.

-

Now there could be a difference in approach here. I'm concentrating on creating the most successful, in terms of wins, deck that utilises Discords and Black Holes. If your objective is purely to deny your opponent from doing anything then we're not "singing from the same hymn sheet". (lol I wanted to use that)

safko01

  • Guest
Re: Discords Flying into a Black Hole https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8537.msg99771#msg99771
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2010, 03:45:23 am »
I'm not sure how you people can say I don't know what I'm talking about when I've used just the decks I have been talking about in tournaments with decent success. I don't see people using rainbow Discord decks at all but I have seen some mono Discord or duo Discord decks. Does that mean nobody in tournaments knows what they are doing? Hmm.
Why would you expect to see this deck in tournaments already when we are literally just now trying to work out the details for it?

I'm not saying I don't think you know what your talking about because I know your a good player, but for this particular deck what you mentioned earlier would not work.

Why should SG give up her entire deck idea because we just assume something else would work better?  I mean I spent months working on my shutdown deck and everyone kept telling me that the deck wasn't going to do anything better than a fractal pest deck would.  I ignored the criticism (the nonconstructive criticism) and kept tweaking and eventually found a deck that has won me quite a few championship league matches. 

Since I know your a good player jumba I would really like it if you were a little less critical and little more constructive of this because it IS a new idea (using super novas with a discord gravity deck is not something I've personally scene before and you mentioned that you've never scene it before either) and it would be very cool if we could find a good working build.

Jumbalumba

  • Guest
Re: Discords Flying into a Black Hole https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8537.msg99775#msg99775
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2010, 03:54:39 am »
I'm fine with the Supernovas. What I'm most concerned with is the Animate Weapons because I believe it to be a waste. I have stated my points on why I think one does not need more than one Discord out at a time and I have also expressed my concern on the low attacking power and/or creature control with this deck.

I do suppose I could have been unconstructive when I suggested that a basic mono Gravity with Discords would work better but it depends on where we're coming from. I was merely saying that something simple, tried and tested works better than this deck in its current incarnation so more work should be done.

And when I say I haven't seen it it just means I haven't seen anybody (else) use it. Doesn't mean I haven't tried. I just didn't like the need to balance a decent amount of :gravity for Black Holes and a decent amount of :entropy for Discords all the while trying to not stop yourself from being able to cast Supernova. When you want to have 6 Discord, 6 Black Hole and 6 Supernova, along with the necessary Gravity or Entropy Towers because your Mark can only power one of them, you really don't have much space for anything else. You could try to cut back on some of the cards mentioned earlier but it just means the deck becomes less reliable on its main strategy.

Here, making the Discords fly means you use will use up even more :entropy or you can stop for a turn or two to avoid not being able to use Supernovas (again we come back to being slow and the possibility of being outrushed). Flying is just too much hassle for the very little benefit that the extra scramble brings.

Offline jmdt

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2782
  • Reputation Power: 33
  • jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.jmdt is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • New to Elements
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday Cake
Re: Discords Flying into a Black Hole https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8537.msg99785#msg99785
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2010, 04:19:46 am »
I'm fine with the Supernovas. What I'm most concerned with is the Animate Weapons because I believe it to be a waste. I have stated my points on why I think one does not need more than one Discord out at a time and I have also expressed my concern on the low attacking power and/or creature control with this deck.
I disagree that only one discord is needed.  If you are going for an annoyance then 1 discord is enough, but later in the game when the opponents pillar count is up 1 discord simply wont do that well of a job and will leave the opponent with enough of their needed quanta to mount an assault.  With 2 or 3 discord you get scramble multiple times and more evenly balance quanta dispersion.  If you want a complete lockdown you must have at least two discord working most of the time.

unionruler

  • Guest
Re: Discords Flying into a Black Hole https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8537.msg99971#msg99971
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2010, 01:58:02 pm »
Here is the argument for flying discords in my opinion:

An early discord is needed, therefore you need 5 of them in the deck
Decreasing marginal utility is observed, because the first discord does the significant shuffling, and not the others.
However, economies of scale are very low with 5 discords and no flying weapon cards because their marginal utiility while low is nonzero and there are many of them in a deck
Strategically, it would be ideal to have one flying discord and one in the weapon slot, because it would mean your opponent needs CC/PC to stop you, or shield/PC but shields cost quanta
Hence, it would be preferable to draw 2 discords and 1 flying weapon early, which would mean at least 3 flying weapons cards in the deck

Scaredgirl

  • Guest
Re: Discords Flying into a Black Hole https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8537.msg103954#msg103954
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2010, 09:05:15 pm »
I have extensive experience with the discords/black hole so I will throw out a few things I learned in testing.  With an entropy mark you need 1 amethyst tower in the starting hand to play a discord on the second turn.  Early discords are very important to getting this deck to work.  Any yes flying discords is important.  Against a mono deck a single discord will not scramble all the quanta.  Depending on the number of pillars out, it can take 3 discord for a complete scramble.  Early black holes are also important.  Playing just off the mark means you can only play a black hole on turn four and then every three turns after.  Often black holes this infrequent are not enough for a complete lockdown of your opponent.  If you can get three gravity towers out, you can chain black holes and your opponent will be helpless.  40-50% of the time I win wil my opponent play no cards at all. Another thing is damage.  Discords need help with damage incase the opponent gets a few cards out.  Also with only 3 hp, flown discord is vulnerable to cheap CC spells such as fire lance and lightning bolt. You need some other, preferably high hp attacks to help finish the job.
You are forgetting Supernova.


xKelevra

  • Guest
Re: Discords Flying into a Black Hole https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8537.msg104413#msg104413
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2010, 06:45:16 am »
Looks interesting. Although I would possibly turn this into a mini speed rainbow by taking out the fog shields and precogs and replacing them with a graboid, a forest spectre, and a couple of werewolves.

 

blarg: