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Nume

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg145825#msg145825
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2010, 11:01:07 pm »
Lol yeah if I ever get rainbow as my oracle FG I think this is the deck im gonna use... :P. The reason it works is that rainbow is fairly slow to do damage, and you have so many creatures that his creature control just isnt enough to stop all your damage most of time. Also you can generally beat him before he gets enough light for miracle.

Offline jmdtTopic starter

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146113#msg146113
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2010, 07:15:04 am »
Finally finished 200 games.  Has a final ttw of 5.955 making it faster than my uber fast life rush, if only by a hair.

Nume

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146114#msg146114
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2010, 07:17:28 am »
One change I made is to take out one tower and replace with precog. Other than that I run with same deck as OP. I just find that the towers do little after first/second turn so having a precog which basically just makes the deck smaller works great. Time usage is still at 6 so 3 snovas will still power the entire deck :P.

Offline jmdtTopic starter

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146141#msg146141
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2010, 08:56:34 am »
One change I made is to take out one tower and replace with precog. Other than that I run with same deck as OP. I just find that the towers do little after first/second turn so having a precog which basically just makes the deck smaller works great. Time usage is still at 6 so 3 snovas will still power the entire deck :P.
With 4 QT's I have a feeling you will have a higher % of bad draws.  5 QT's is generally accepted as the optimal number for speed and stability from what I've read.

Let me know how it works though.

Nume

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146258#msg146258
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2010, 03:17:13 pm »
Honestly, the only time I even care about getting a QT is the first hand, and with the auto mulligan the odds are pretty high even with just 4. Using the hypergeometric probability
thing, the odds of drawing one in starting hand is 67 percent. Then if you dont you get 1 more try so I'm not sure exactly how it works but its probably over 80 percent that you get one. In practice I can only thing of one time I didnt get 1 in starting hand, and I still easily won. The main reason for the change was the times I'd have plenty of quanta and really want to draw a good creature/precog, and get another useless tower :P. After the first hand any towers drawn are generally a bad thing imo...

Nume

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146452#msg146452
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2010, 09:51:29 pm »
I have been testing out a different version of this today. I didnt keep detailed stats but many games were 4 or 5 turn wins. It relies on supernovas for the quanta, but can play even faster. I'm not sure if I made the optimal balance of creatures, but ppl can feel free to adjust.
Code: [Select]
6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 713 745 77g 77g 7ae 7ae 7ds 7ds 7gm 7k1 7n6 7q5 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7tf 80gEdit: ???s are upped entropy pendelums. They have to be upped for this to work btw, bc it relies on drawing at least one in starting hand (good chance with mulligan) and then you can play Snovas and precogs 2nd turn (or first if you get 2 pendelums).

Kuross

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146676#msg146676
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2010, 03:54:31 am »
Tried this out versus Elder at jmdt's request and found I really liked it!

Only change for me was this:

-3 Precogs

+1 Unstoppable
+1 Werewolf
+1 Minor Phoenix


Since I tested against L3, I saw no point in running precogs. I've played enough against L3 to be able to virtually predict Elder's play. Besides, I'm not a fan of of Precogs unless I am fighting real players. Also, against the AI, I feel Precog is a place holder that costs 1 Time to draw the card I would have drawn anyway ;)

The reason for the cards I used in place of the Precogs were simple- WW and MP are low casters that slide into play easy enough and one more creature with momentum gets past those pesky Dusk/Frost Shields L3 likes to use that really cuts into grinding time.

Anywho... here are the stats I ended up with. The TTW may be very slightly higher than jmdt's, but I had 3 games that really screwed me on quanta and went much further into the turn count than I wanted to go. Also, for what it's worth, I had my settings set to normal, skipped all spins and didn't factor for any time lost taking notes, so I feel if one were to be total focused on the grind, would be able to speed up the below listed time.

Win/loss:   99/1  (epically bad draw vs uber great draw for AI on the loss)
Time: 116 minutes  (1 minute 4 seconds average per game)
TTW- 6.061
1704 Score
1709 Electrum
1 EM
3 fourth turn wins

wavedash

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146783#msg146783
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2010, 01:20:37 pm »
I thought the purpose of Precognition is to make your deck essentially 24 cards large. Meaning you get more Supernovae.

Kuross

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146805#msg146805
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2010, 02:02:12 pm »
No matter how one cooks it, you still have a 30 card deck. The problem I've noted is if I really need a card with this deck, it's Supernova or a tower because I have no Quanta to use. If I have no Quanta to use, then it's likely I'll not be able to use precog. If I have the Quanta I need, then precog becomes a 1 Time placeholder for a card I would have drawn naturally in its place. I figure since the cards I used in Precog's place are ones already useable in the deck the draws would be unnoticible, with the exception of Unstoppable. Also, this deck is fast enough that you don't really need to draw it out to win.

Where Precog's power really is found is in two parts. One, to be able to see what your opponent is sitting on in their hand and two, to thin out a deck of useless draws. What I mean in the second part is if you only need 10 pillars, and 16 other cards to make a deck work, you don't want to fill the other 4 spots with cards that may be dead draws so Precogs will slide into those slots nicely, thereby speeding that deck up. However, if you have cards that would fill in the other 4 slots without really noticing a loss to deck speed/efficiency, then precogs, or any card mechanic like it, becomes a middle man placeholder and can actually slow down a deck.

In my run of 100 gmes, I noted several times I played 1st turn Minor Phoenix (sometimes a Frog) with 2 drop Quanta towers and had no Time quanta to work with until the S-Novas were used. It's possible that the Minor Phoenix was the one I replaced a precog with. To balance the argument though, I concede there were times I had a tower down and at least one Time quanta, but in the long run, those times were very few and I never really saw issue with not being to use a precog at the time. Long story short, I think it's a preference thing and I tend to avoid card mechanics like precog because I've been so used to a certain, unmentioned CCG which tends to frown on using this type of mechanic without do cause. ;)

Nume

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146816#msg146816
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2010, 02:18:38 pm »
Yeah in the main deck its a personal choice, but they do increase the chances of getting to snova. In my version, the precogs are basically always playable, and crucial because it relies entirely on snovas for its quanta :P.

Kuross

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146892#msg146892
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2010, 05:28:54 pm »
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I believe precogs are potent, I just cut them out when facing AIs like L3.

In PvP, they are solid plays, but in this particular deck, the strategy is simple- pound at lightning speed. This deck has only one weapon that is immaterial and no shield or CC. There's not much in someone's hand I need to see that is going to require me to change much in how I play this deck. Though knowing about a future Fire Storm or Plague may make me want to burrow my shreikers or hold back a monster or two, but that's about it. And to be honest, playing in PvP, one gets use to knowing when and what CC will likely be coming at you.

But I digress, this deck is sick fast and it's speed is something to be feared when fighting it. Precogs or no precogs, this deck wrecks.

Nume

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Re: Da Fastest Speedbow Eva! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11757.msg146894#msg146894
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2010, 05:41:09 pm »
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I believe precogs are potent, I just cut them out when facing AIs like L3.

In PvP, they are solid plays, but in this particular deck, the strategy is simple- pound at lightning speed. This deck has only one weapon that is immaterial and no shield or CC. There's not much in someone's hand I need to see that is going to require me to change much in how I play this deck. Though knowing about a future Fire Storm or Plague may make me want to burrow my shreikers or hold back a monster or two, but that's about it. And to be honest, playing in PvP, one gets use to knowing when and what CC will likely be coming at you.

But I digress, this deck is sick fast and it's speed is something to be feared when fighting it. Precogs or no precogs, this deck wrecks.
Yes I can see what you mean. I'm saying that in my deck, the one with the time mark and entropy pendelums, the precog's are crucial :P. Its not to see your opponents hand, its to increase the odds of getting supernovas by effectively reducing the deck size. But yeah anyways... :P. I'll post some stats for my version when I get home from work.

 

anything
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