Post by: Boingo on February 01, 2011, 07:10:13 pm
This deck was posted before the 1.32 game update and as a result may work very differently now. Use at your own risk.
CBS (Crusaders busting skulls)
This FG-grinder depends heavily on the proposed buffs to Skull Buckler and to Skeletons. The ability to convert any opposing creature into a 2/2 Elite Skeleton has real advantages. The ability to convert those skellies into creatures the FG cannot use (and then rewind them) is also a nice touch. That's where the Crusaders become key--they allow you to multiply the rewind abilities of Eternity. In essence, Crusaders with rewind have become the poor man's Fallen Druid (you get creatures, but no mutant abilities.)
The deck is still in its infancy and subject to any further changes to the Skull Buckler or Skeleton.
So ugly not worth posting. Seriously.
v1.4
Deck play tips:
Get Buckler in place ASAP, but keep in mind the FGs with PC. Waiting a turn for EA sucks, but can pay big dividends (see Divine Glory below.)
Do NOT enchant Eternity before Crusaders are endowed.
It runs a little tight on Time quanta, so don't use hasten once you near control of the board.
Deck comments:
The next version will likely use Graveyards instead of boneyards so you can get upped skellies --> upped creatures.Done.- In its current form it
has no real PConly has BE for PC, so keep that in mind about which FGs you will want to ditch. - Momentum** is applied to different creatures depending on the opponent: in some cases you want to keep your Otyugh unfrozen, your Destroyer destroying through bonewalls, etc. **Not all versions have momentum
- FFQ is for reliable creature spam (in case graveyard is deep in the deck.) Not always necessary
- Mind flayer is to combat momentum. So far I've found it marginally helpful. All in all, it's a cheap rewind creature and easily ditched. Have ditched it in recent versions
Options for this deck:
Butterfly effect for PC to use on 2nd otyugh/skellie/other rewound creature.
Antimatter for healing.
2. Pulverizer. Enough said.
3. Exchange Lava Destroyer for additional RoF. Lowering creature hp can dramatically improve chances of Skull Buckler converting them to skeletons. I would definitely recommend Graveyard for this option.
Some screen-shots from trainer:
Incarnate:
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd134685/Incarnate.png)
Decay: (burrowed skellies are funny)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd134687/Decay.png)
Chaos Lord:
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd134688/chaos_lord.png)
Divine Glory:
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd134430/Skull_buster.png)
Comments/improvements welcome.
Post by: gavsword on February 01, 2011, 07:14:34 pm
Post by: Boingo on February 01, 2011, 08:07:56 pm
Bonds for healing? Otherwise looks really good.I tried adding 1 EBond and 1 BE. A little afraid of making the deck too big, but not bad so far:
Destiny
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd134714/Destiny.png)
Decay
(http://i.imgur.com/VHxPW.png)
Neptune
(http://i.imgur.com/JzPFc.png)
Post by: Boingo on February 02, 2011, 12:37:10 am
Time quanta is no longer a problem, anubis is the quinting source. BE very helpful, and Feral Bond really plays nicely with the skellie spam.
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I played around with it a little in the trainer. Here's the bare bones version I came up with:
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6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u8 715 715 717 74b 74b 77i 77i 7k5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 80h 80hDefinitely needs more testing before you can say anything for sure. But I like the idea. I'll probably keep playing with it.
Post by: Newbiecake on February 02, 2011, 03:59:21 am
Personal opinion: I think you should need a shield or two for early stall or adapting to different situations, maybe a Permafrost would help...
Concerning version 1.3: You'll have to wait quite a while to quint if you don't get Anubis and your only Quint at the same time. I think the triple Quint would be much more reliable IMO. The barebones version looks good.
Post by: Boingo on February 02, 2011, 04:44:40 am
Ooh interesting. This would whip Divine Glory and Eternal Phoenix's butt because their creatures has low hp.Absolutely a problem if you wait for both. Depending on the situation, I won't wait as Anubis has some decent CC resistance with 8 hp, so if I draw him early I usually go for it. If I draw the quint early, I play it on whatever creature makes the most sense. With the Otyugh/Graveyard combo going, you get lots of skellies to rewind. Rewound creatures sop up the CC spells, and skellies replace them. The circle of life is complete. By the time Anubis comes along, FGs will have spent a lot of the in-hand spells leaving Anubis naked for just 1 turn. After that, every good creature gets immortalized.
Personal opinion: I think you should need a shield or two for early stall or adapting to different situations, maybe a Permafrost would help...
Concerning version 1.3: You'll have to wait quite a while to quint if you don't get Anubis and your only Quint at the same time. I think the triple Quint would be much more reliable IMO. The barebones version looks good.
In my experience, the Permafrost isn't playable any earlier than the Skull Buckler given the cost differential, and while congealed creatures are nice, weak (and devourable) ones are better. This deck is still in evolution, and I appreciate the help. I think there's still room to optimize it, and I have no idea what kind of stats it will give you in real-game. Everything always seems to work better in the trainer.
In all honesty, you could pack Animate Weapon instead of Crusader (and maybe PU or another Eternity) but I thought Crusaders were a nice aesthetic touch (and "Eternities busting skulls" isn't as catchy.)
Post by: Boingo on February 02, 2011, 05:24:52 am
Looks interesting Boingo.I'm glad you are giving it a try. I thought the new card changes were a bit too powerful, but I've learned to make lemonade. Anyway, I added 2 Firestorms to the barebones and it works well--much less clutter though it sometimes lacks punch. Still, was able to defeat Dark Matter pretty handily by getting an Otyugh out before those freaking nymphs of doom got going. Without the Firestorms, though, it would've been tough eating my way through chargers and otyughs since they all have 5+ hp. Rewinding the skellies for Gravity Force bait saved me some health, and the Graveyards kept me going. Ironically, the Buckler in this situation played no role since the chargers and otyughs were momentumed, and the dragons were too massive to get converted. The only hard part after the engine started humming was waiting out the Black Holes which kept healing him up.
I played around with it a little in the trainer. Here's the bare bones version I came up with:Code: [Select]6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u8 715 715 717 74b 74b 77i 77i 7k5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 80h 80hDefinitely needs more testing before you can say anything for sure. But I like the idea. I'll probably keep playing with it.
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd134955/Dark_Matter_1.2.png)
Post by: EvaRia on February 02, 2011, 08:57:17 am
4/3 Skeletons are pretty powerful on their own.
Post by: gavsword on February 02, 2011, 12:48:50 pm
Maybe an Eclipse?No because then the opponents skellies also become 4/3, and the chance for the opponents death and darkness creatures to be destroyed is lowered.
4/3 Skeletons are pretty powerful on their own.
Post by: Boingo on February 04, 2011, 06:20:16 am
Code: [Select]
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--Anubis for extra damage, quint on a stick. Not sure it helps all that much but protecting key rewound creatures is very helpful
--Sorely misses purify vs some but couldn't justify it for most FGs.
FG Notes:
No formal stats at this point but Ferox, Miracle, Neptune, Chaos Lord, Decay, Paradox usually easy wins.
Fire Queen, Dark Matter, Elidnis, Destiny are depend on first 9-10 cards.
An early PA on the Buckler is epic vs Eternal Phoenix. Otherwise, quit.
Autoquits: Hermes, Graviton, Scorpio and Morte (too much poison).
Octane
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd136070/Octane_1.3.png)
Post by: Newbiecake on February 04, 2011, 11:28:51 pm
Post by: Boingo on February 05, 2011, 02:14:56 am
I always always test the draws of a deck before I get to actually playing with it, and I have to say, many are just horrible. At most I would have 3 Towers, but usually just one (because of the reshuffle if yuo don't get any cards to play on the first turn), which isn't enough to bring out my hourglasses to bring out more Towers/ Essentials. I think we need a way to get around bad draws.I've tinkered around trying to make a Supernova version of the deck, but haven't had much success just yet. In this deck, I usually ditch extra hourglasses if they're clogging up the hand since they are not essential for winning condition. Getting a graveyard up, skull buckler in place, endowing the crusader with Eternity and quinting an otyugh: getting 3 out of 4 of these is a good sign you can win.
Post by: Captain Scibra on February 08, 2011, 02:17:34 am
I always enjoyed the timebows I tried before giving up on them when they just weren't effective, but now that I got my grinders fully upgraded, efficiency can take a break and fun time can begin again, and I think I might start with this one, once I'm done with my Heavy Metal Gravity/Earth Control Deck Series (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15792.0.html). After all a game is intended for a person to have a little time-wasting fun!
No Elves?
Post by: Boingo on February 08, 2011, 02:57:10 am
Ooh Malebolgia like.Rewinding upped skellies gives you upped creatures--dragons and such are very nice. In essence, this makes the Druid/Elf ability redundant (acknowledging that you never get the ever helpful destroy/steal abilities.) You can customize the deck however you like--the barebones is what's more or less essential and the additions match playstyle/personal preference. Adding an elf/druid would be easy as the :life quanta is largely untouched.
I always enjoyed the timebows I tried before giving up on them when they just weren't effective, but now that I got my grinders fully upgraded, efficiency can take a break and fun time can begin again, and I think I might start with this one, once I'm done with my Heavy Metal Gravity/Earth Control Deck Series (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15792.0.html). After all a game is intended for a person to have a little time-wasting fun!
No Elves?
Post by: gavsword on February 08, 2011, 03:05:29 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 08, 2011, 08:13:03 pm
How consistent is the boneyard? Maybe add another because those seem to be your mass creature spawners with eternitythese types of decks are slow, so, it doesn't matter that much...
also, I wonder which of our decks is better, since they seem to be resolving around the same basic idea of eternity and boneyard (difference being mine is modeled after lonestalker, and yours is modeled after puppychow's totally-unoriginal-but-semi-original)
Post by: Captain Scibra on February 08, 2011, 08:17:22 pm
Post by: gavsword on February 08, 2011, 08:51:38 pm
Added RoL has helped me. This deck is quite enjoyable, but Im still finding consistency trouble with a lot of the decks central combos
Post by: Captain Scibra on February 12, 2011, 12:56:08 am
EDIT: Um how about Sundials? If I remember correctly most Timebows used Sundials, have you tried those? That seems to be whats missing, that extra stall and drawing power. If not I will try some myself later.
Post by: Boingo on February 12, 2011, 02:21:27 pm
How does it do against Miracle Fake Gods? Perhaps try and pack a Poseidon for pillar control? Scorpio? Maybe add Purifies? Just noticing some problems I always had when using rainbows against FGs, and Miracles being a problem unless you Fractal ambush them, and poison always was hard without a Purify or two in the deck. Even when I didn't need them, the extra cards were kinda nice cushion, but also the +2 each adds up. As for the pillar control thing, wouldn't hurt to slow the FG down if possible even if it weren't anti-Miracles, though i suppose it would be rather slow considering it would make the deck very Earth-heavy.
Hmmm tried it out and I just couldnt seem to get the right cards, and a lot of the Fake Gods are difficult. It just seems that its very complicated that it just falls apart rather easily. Only tested about 6 or 7 games. It may just be bad luck, so I'm going to test some more.Miracle has not been as much of a problem as you would think. You ultimately rewind a low cost creature (physalia, brimstone eater, firemaster, etc) and wait it out. Poison is trouble, especially early pufferfish in which case you need a firestorm and pray they convert to skeletons since devouring them is a losing battle now that they're poisonous. In v1.0 I had 1 purify which helped sometimes, but usually for extra healing against non-poison FGs.
EDIT: Um how about Sundials? If I remember correctly most Timebows used Sundials, have you tried those? That seems to be whats missing, that extra stall and drawing power. If not I will try some myself later.
I haven't tried sundials. It is an interesting thought--if I find some time I'll try this out.
Added RoL has helped me. This deck is quite enjoyable, but Im still finding consistency trouble with a lot of the decks central combosI'm glad you have enjoyed it so far. A rewindable creature is a good addition though I honestly haven't lost that often due to deckout. If you have a variation you prefer, post it and I will add it to the OP.
Post by: Captain Scibra on February 24, 2011, 09:06:20 pm
I have been considering it but I don't think the Skull Buckler is really necessary, but still can be squeezed in there in place of some of my preferred shields. I have been examining some other rainbows, particularly CHMD (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11062.0.html) and CCYB (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9545.0.html) style decks. Here is what I came up with on what might be a good improvement. Sundials for some stalling, Fog shield for early damage reduction, Dusk for a early-midgame shield thats ever-so-slightly better than Fog, and Permafrost for tops midgame. A stair-step fashion if you will, taken from CCYB meets CHMD (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13965.0.html), an attempt at combining CHMD drawing potential with CCYB Destroyer damage and some other concepts. Free-cost creature added for Eternity loop when your deck runs out, so there is no worry about overdrawing (just be worried when that Eternity is dead bottom). Added some more Towers as well.
EDIT: decided to remove Anubis for a third Quintessence, for you only need 3 specific Immortals (Crusader, Butterfly Effect'd, and Otyugh). Even if the opponent does have CC, the first few Skeletons and Undeads should sop that up like a sponge. Also, it tended to hurt when I'm trying to get draws going for other crucial cards, so I couldn't spare quanta to play him, and I would sometimes have enough to play a Quintessence and a Crusader or Otyugh if I was in need of them, but he was in my hand instead.
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Possible additions:
-The original Skull Buckler idea for Fake Gods such as Divine Glory.
-Second Graveyard. If you kill Undeads, they turn back into Skeletons. If you have 2 Graveyards, not only does it give slightly higher chance of getting it consistantly earlier, but (safely, as you don't want to kill your Otyugh with ingestion poisoning) recycling Undeads that you don't like or want will also increase your Skeleton pool if they are both out.
-Mitosis. To make more skeletons or more of a creature you may like, though the second Graveyard might be a better option if it's against Fake Gods with CC (just about most of them), but could be suitable if you are willing to pack an extra Quintessence.
EDIT: It doesn't seem to be doing that well, but I'm trying to fix that. Rainbows are not my forte.
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on February 24, 2011, 10:36:11 pm
Post by: Boingo on February 27, 2011, 04:24:59 am
For first post it says Morning Glory, should be Divine Glory just telling youCorrected. Thanks.
@Malebolgia: Will try out your deck idea. Anubis was a drag on quanta typically. Trouble with more quints (for me) is RNG finds a way to consistently give me 3 of them in the opening hand which slows things down immensely. Still, going to try it out now.
Post by: shwiggles on March 01, 2011, 10:42:37 pm
Overall, my recommendation would be either +1 sanctuary, or -1SOG, +1sanctuary.
Post by: zse on March 02, 2011, 02:00:53 pm
Deck import code : [Select]6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rq 6rq 6u8 712 712 715 715 717 717 72i 72i 72i 7n2 7q0 7q7 7q7 7q8 7q8 7ri 7ri
Since this is so similar to the deck in 1st post (CBS), I didn't bother to post my deck in a new topic.
Instead of going to :rainbow I tried to keep it :death/ :time duo.
Oty is replaced with Retrovirus,
Crusader with 2nd Eternity + AW,
Quints with 2nd Anubis.
All the rest (PA/Firestorm/Hourglass) taken out to thin the deck down to 30 cards.Is there any way to speed up this deck concept for HB grinding, or is CBS only suitable for slowish FG-grinding?
Post by: Boingo on March 03, 2011, 02:31:12 am
I've been trying to build fast Half-Breed grinder that wins > 90% games, and now I've ended to this:First off, that is a nice looking duo deck. I would very much like to speed up the deck, but haven't specifically designed a HB-grinder since they are so random to begin with. I may try this duo-deck in the trainer just to see how it feels. Thanks for posting it since I've been wanting to strengthen the :time :death synergy.
Deck import code : [Select]6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rq 6rq 6u8 712 712 715 715 717 717 72i 72i 72i 7n2 7q0 7q7 7q7 7q8 7q8 7ri 7ri
Since this is so similar to the deck in 1st post (CBS), I didn't bother to post my deck in a new topic.
Instead of going to :rainbow I tried to keep it :death/ :time duo.
Oty is replaced with Retrovirus,
Crusader with 2nd Eternity + AW,
Quints with 2nd Anubis.
All the rest (PA/Firestorm/Hourglass) taken out to thin the deck down to 30 cards.Is there any way to speed up this deck concept for HB grinding, or is CBS only suitable for slowish FG-grinding?
Post by: HeartNotes on March 04, 2011, 05:29:13 pm
I've been trying to build fast Half-Breed grinder that wins > 90% games, and now I've ended to this:This is a really nice streamlined version and I've been trying to build the same deck unupgraded with only except with a Fallen Druid, upgraded Otyughs, a Protect Artifact, and Plagues instead of Retroviruses.
Deck import code : [Select]6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rq 6rq 6u8 712 712 715 715 717 717 72i 72i 72i 7n2 7q0 7q7 7q7 7q8 7q8 7ri 7ri
Since this is so similar to the deck in 1st post (CBS), I didn't bother to post my deck in a new topic.
The problem I ran into when farming Half-Bloods was quanta starvation... are Towers comparable to Pillars or do those extra 3 quanta when you put it down really help?
Post by: Blues on March 05, 2011, 11:50:12 pm
Post by: Onizuka on March 06, 2011, 12:00:44 am
1hp=50%
2hp=25%
3hp=12.5%
Etc.
Post by: Blues on March 06, 2011, 03:56:36 am
50%/HPBad chances for overdrived dragons. :'(
1hp=50%
2hp=25%
3hp=12.5%
Etc.
Post by: pikachufan2164 on March 06, 2011, 04:38:44 am
Better idea: just Rewind them.50%/HPBad chances for overdrived dragons. :'(
1hp=50%
2hp=25%
3hp=12.5%
Etc.
Large/buffed/expensive creatures are perfect targets for your large selection of Rewinds on a stick.
Post by: Captain Scibra on March 06, 2011, 09:40:30 pm
50%/HPJust saying, the fomula is right, but the 3hp was wrong, and that it was really the % for 4hp.
1hp=50%
2hp=25%
3hp=16.7%
4hp=12.5%
Etc.
Post by: darkfrogger on March 07, 2011, 02:20:05 am
Post by: Captain Scibra on March 08, 2011, 07:44:02 pm
Actually it should be 16.7% since 16.666... rounds up to 16.7.Thanks. Fixed.
Post by: Newbiecake on March 08, 2011, 09:05:57 pm
Post by: k_huna on March 16, 2011, 03:19:33 pm
first: yeah, i like it... but honestly... why should you use skull buckler if you can use a spine carapace? Why do you want to turn your opponents creatures into skelletons if you can totally get rid of them? just to double rewind them? (who wants to pay 6 :time to get rid of a creature instead of just eating them for 1 :gravity with your oty?!). Also spine carapace kills creatures way faster... so i would change at least one of the bucklers for a carapace
Post by: omegareaper7 on March 16, 2011, 03:28:26 pm
Skull buckler gets rid of threats like ruby dragons and other small creatures like physalia and phoenix without letting them do more then a couple attacks, while also filling up there field so they can't play as much.
first: yeah, i like it... but honestly... why should you use skull buckler if you can use a spine carapace? Why do you want to turn your opponents creatures into skelletons if you can totally get rid of them? just to double rewind them? (who wants to pay 6 :time to get rid of a creature instead of just eating them for 1 :gravity with your oty?!). Also spine carapace kills creatures way faster... so i would change at least one of the bucklers for a carapace
Post by: k_huna on March 16, 2011, 04:45:22 pm
Post by: zse on March 16, 2011, 05:07:30 pm
first: yeah, i like it... but honestly... why should you use skull buckler if you can use a spine carapace? Why do you want to turn your opponents creatures into skelletons if you can totally get rid of them? just to double rewind them? (who wants to pay 6 :time to get rid of a creature instead of just eating them for 1 :gravity with your oty?!). Also spine carapace kills creatures way faster... so i would change at least one of the bucklers for a carapaceWhy use Thunderbolt when it deals only 5 damage while Ice Lance can deal 200 damage?
1 :aether is a lot easier to get than 201 :water.
Why use Skull Buckler when Spine Carapace does almost same thing?
2 :death is a lot easier to get than 7 :life in :rainbow deck using Q.Towers, or Q.Towers + :death :time Pendulums.
Who wants to pay 6 :time to get rid of a creature instead of just eating them for 1 :gravity with your oty?!
One who wants to use Eternity lock (= prevent opponent from drawing new cards).
Post by: k_huna on March 17, 2011, 12:54:49 pm
Post by: Optimalist on March 19, 2011, 12:39:50 pm
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on March 19, 2011, 12:48:47 pm
Post by: zse on March 19, 2011, 03:01:35 pm
Shouldn't you add a Fallen Druid since you added graveyard?Graveyard -> Skeleton
Skeleton + Eternity -> Random Creature
Post by: xn0ize on March 19, 2011, 03:19:30 pm
Fallen druid produces mutations, Mutations > random creatures in many games.Shouldn't you add a Fallen Druid since you added graveyard?Graveyard -> Skeleton
Skeleton + Eternity -> Random Creature
Post by: zse on March 19, 2011, 03:55:55 pm
True. But there is that fine line between being good enough and overkill:Fallen druid produces mutations, Mutations > random creatures in many games.Shouldn't you add a Fallen Druid since you added graveyard?Graveyard -> Skeleton
Skeleton + Eternity -> Random Creature
Random creatures (good enough) < Fallen Druid giving mutations (sometimes great, usually overkill)
- and -
Using good deck with 1 card less > adding 1 card more which may "in many games" give some extra value that may or may not be needed for winning.
All in all it really comes to players preferences & playing style. Some may like to get more splashy wins after using F.D., while others settle with bit less spectacular wins and less messing around (clicking on ~10 mutant creatures with abilities every turn). I believe both strategies will have about the same win rates though.
Post by: Sug81 on March 19, 2011, 07:02:55 pm
Post by: (...) on March 19, 2011, 08:50:19 pm
Post by: scottish on March 27, 2011, 05:20:33 pm
I fell in crazy lot of time because I need the important card but it was my last.
Post by: HeartNotes on March 27, 2011, 05:31:37 pm