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Offline xsindomanx

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Re: Brontobow [arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg417785#msg417785
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2011, 06:06:13 am »
Impressive win rate! Unfortunately can't try it yet since I don't have the shards yet.
By poison, you mean neurotoxin? You would have problems with an early neurotoxin, since you are essentially playing a rather big deck.

The obvious solutions are:
    Poison / Neurotoxin: Purify, miracle, heal, vampireGhostmare: Any completely blocking shield, heal, sundialSosa: -.- nothing really...I guess a purple nymph + SoR could work :P
But any deck ought to have weaknesses. Think ghostmare is the most common one in the arena. Since a lot of your non-Sose creatures are more towards control than damage, you would be less affected by Sosa, and you may be less affected by ghostmare since you may have the quarta to actually play the ghosts instead of throwing them out and getting damage.
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Brontos

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Re: Brontobow [arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg417912#msg417912
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2011, 12:37:13 pm »
(my win rate was a bit lower today ^^)

All poisons are problematic. And just too much when combined with SoSac. I was playing Purify once, but it's an expensive slot in a SoSe rainbow.

Ghostmare is like hell on Earth for me. You play with your starting hand all game long, and a few Gotp in bonus with it. Most of the time, I don't have the quantas to play my creatures a second time (after the tastefull Rewind/Eternity). The only solution I see is to play Time towers to be able to play the Gotp myself (when I win against it, I usually can steal one).

As I said in another post today, I trained against my Sosa-poison deck with different rainbows, and I never won. With or without Purify. I don't know a solution to this combo. If you purify the poison, you still can't win under SoSa while the creatures & Arsenic are killing you. And if you don't, you just die slowly. :) Any deck list (not isolated cards) is welcome!

Offline gumbeh

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Re: Brontobow [arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg418489#msg418489
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 09:47:23 am »
You can't win against all decktypes. Even the infamous SoSac/Dune Scorp deck has counters - many such counterdecks are reigning in plat right now due to the popularity of SoSac for farming in plat. Before that, plat was rife with counters to zombie0's Giantslaying Deck, after the initial phase where Giantslayer did extremely well ofc.

I would evaluate poison and nightmare independently. Which one annoys you more? Which one is used more frequently? Then, decide whether you can change 1-4 cards in your deck enough to counter one decktype, and accept that you will lose to the other.

Ghostmare can be partially countered by playstyle changes, too. Hang on to as many cards in hand as you can afford, play cards wherein you can afford to play it again or you need to play it to win. Maybe abuse Serendipity less for the useful cards, and more for Serendipity's ability to fill your hand and block many ghosts from appearing in it. I agree, though, that ghostmare is still tough even if you play "right" against it.

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Re: Brontobow [arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg418535#msg418535
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2011, 01:24:03 pm »
If I had to choose, I'd like to beat Ghostmare. :]

I face them a lot. I only win when I can steal time towers and when I have a good pile of quantum towers myself. This way, I can afford to pay my creatures a few times.
So if I wanted to adapt my deck a little to increase my winrate against Ghostmare, I'd add 2 towers.

Offline gumbeh

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Re: Brontobow [arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg418742#msg418742
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2011, 10:21:40 pm »
I'm not entirely sure about that one. I'd love to test your deck, but I don't have enough Serendipities yet. :(

FWIW, here's my theorycrafting on brontobow vs Ghostmare:
Time towers represent a creature-based solution to Ghostmare. Most creature-based solutions fail due to Reverse Time, as I'm sure you've seen with your Otyugh. Your Oty gets rewound, isn't able to do its job, and the ghosts power straight through your shield and your 100 HP. If you are using time towers to play the ghosts, those will get rewound as well. 2 towers aren't going to produce enough quanta to dump the ghosts in your hand as well as the ghosts that were rewound into your deck. The towers would be wastes of space when you're not fighting Ghostmare, too, because your deck doesn't use :time quanta except via Serendipity.

The first question is, what can be replaced? IMO, you can afford to lose 2 quantum towers, but I don't know how much quanta you typically burn via 6xSerendipity. I only have 2.As for replacements, you could use Lightning to kill the ghosts, helping feed your Bonewall when Oty can't do it. Lightning can help with dune scorps, too. You could take an Electrum Hourglass or two, at the risk of them being stolen and used by the enemy. A better choice might be Sundials, as they give you some respite from the damage rush as well as help you draw deeper into your deck past the rewound creatures. If ghostmare steals your sundial, you still get a turn of respite from damage, and ghostmare can't use the dial's draw power.

A backup, more reliable shield could also help - Fog Shield, Mirror Shield, Diamond Shield, Phase Shield, or Skull Shield could all potentially work, though for many of them you again risk having it stolen.

Here's a deck that commonly crushes my SoSac - YMMV since the enemy deck obviously has 2x draw, instead of the other way around. 24 turns of SoSac is very very good, whereas players themselves only get 12.

Brontos

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Re: Brontobow [arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg419261#msg419261
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2011, 04:15:40 am »
Just gathered quickly some stats in platinium for this one:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6s1 6s1 6s1 6s1 6s1 6s1 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u6 71b 74b 7dm 7dm 7dq 7gr 7k5 7n3 7t9 7tb 8pj
??=SoSe

I've done 50 games yesterday evening in platinium only.

Won 30, with 4 EM and a top ranked one (lots of electrums ^^).
Got 5 spins.
Lost 20.

That's a correct 60%. :)

Offline Calindu

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Re: Brontobow [arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg419476#msg419476
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2011, 04:37:40 pm »
The last version is amazing, the SoSe saved my ass so many times, gravity shield against light rush, fire shield against RoL/hope, etc.
You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy.
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loadquo

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Re: Brontobow [arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg419515#msg419515
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2011, 06:50:48 pm »
How about a quintessence to protect your otyugh/squid against ghostmare?

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Re: Brontobow [arena] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg419525#msg419525
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2011, 07:23:26 pm »
That's a good card to help. On an Otyugh, it would be perfect.

The problem is that I won't draw it, because against them, if you don't have the card in your starting hand, then you're doomed. You will just either draw the rewinded ones, not draw because of nightmare, or do no damage.
And if things are going well, that's because they don't have a good hand, and in this case, I win anyway by spamming creatures and CC/Bonewall.

But Quint+Otyugh is really a perfect solution to Ghostmare.

@calindu221: yep this card is the key to everything. The number of times I got an incredible solution to a crappy situation is huge. :]
It's really a "never surrender deck".


I increased the sample for the stats, and reached a 59% wins with 8 spins in 100 games. The number of spins is disapointing and doesn't match my experience with this deck during the previous week as I have the feeling I got more.

Offline gumbeh

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Re: Brontobow [platinium][upped] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg419782#msg419782
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2011, 10:05:59 am »
Quint is not a bad idea, even against non-ghostmare. There's a lot of CC out there in many decks, and Otyugh is your only bonewall feeder. Due to lack of shards I've been running a modified Brontobow with Quint, Rage Pot, Shockwave, and Lightning replacing the 4 SoSe I don't have. Seems to work pretty well!

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Re: Brontobow [platinium][upped] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg419797#msg419797
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2011, 11:01:10 am »
I'd remove the Crusader if I really wanted to add a Quint in the last version.

Offline xsindomanx

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Re: Brontobow [platinium][upped] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32607.msg419868#msg419868
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2011, 04:16:14 pm »
To say that an upped rainbow can effectively farm platinum is rather a big statement.
Do you have any stats? :P
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