Post by: Brontos on October 18, 2011, 06:47:37 am
This deck was posted before the 1.32 game update and as a result may work very differently now. Use at your own risk.
EDIT: Now that it's in the Rainbow decks section, I changed the OP.
Hey.
Here is a 60% win rate Platinium farming rainbow deck. Sometimes above, sometimes under 60%; it depends on the morphology of the platinium decks pool. But it's electrum efficient, good for the score and I got enough spins. It's less effective than a good FG farmer, but far more fun. :)
(the ?? is a Shard of Serendipity)
Just a few notes:
- Against Ghostmare, try to steal :time Towers. Low win rate anyway.
- Against SoSac, you can either reduce your damage output by CCing your own creatures (with Octopus etc) or, my choice, increase it like crazy with the Queen+Druid combo until you can two shot him.
- If you draw :gravity :life cards with Serendipity, be sure to keep enough :life for the Queen+Druid combo and :gravity for the Otyugh. Globally, don't play cards for the sake of it. :)
- Don't endow as soon as you can. Keep it for the Vampire dagger as much as possible. Same idea, don't play the dagger if it's not important. Keep it for an endow (crusader or mutant) as long as possible.
- Don't use your Bone Wall if you have nothing to pump it up (Otyugh, Cat, etc) unless you're dieing of course.
- When you are about to play a Serendipity, check your quanta pool. It may be a good idea to empty your hand before or to hold it a few turns if you are low on an important quanta.
- Don't do a Serendipity when you have only 1 :entropy. It prevents you from playing a SN (you can draw it next turn, or draw one in the Shard).
- Don't be afraid to mutate the Octopus if you are low on :water, or any other useless creature you have. Mutate him many times as long as you don't have the correct mutant (destroy, steal, guard, devour, endow are strong keywords to look after).
- Never surrender. You can always be surprised by the capacity of this deck to reverse a doomed situation. You can draw purify, heal and pandemonium on the next turn, and turn the tide of the game drastically.
Many good options have been suggested in this thread. Mod the deck the way you want, but I suggest to avoid any big change to the quanta balance I propose.
Enjoy.
Post by: Brontos on October 24, 2011, 01:25:28 am
Got awesome results in Gold/Platinium (and nearly 95% in silver/bronze) with this new version:
? ? ? = SoSe.
It's less violent and explosive, but the control allowed me incredible comebacks. Synergies between cards are multiple. The previous version got one less wall and one more Tower. But this one works wonder so far.
Feel free to use it and critic it if you wish.
Post by: pikachufan2164 on October 24, 2011, 02:30:43 am
For your first deck, 5 QT + 6 SN usually only supports 6 quanta worth of each element before becoming unstable. Four pieces of permanent control is kind of overboard, even with all those mono-Aether decks floating around in Bronze and Silver x)
For your second deck, I would suggest -1 Phoenix, -1 Steal, +1 Explosion, +1 PU (maybe even a further -1 Steal +1 Hourglass, as 2 pieces of permanent control are usually enough, but there are times when a third comes in really handy).
PU is an amazing support card, especially when you have the option of doubling your Crusaders for more healing, and it also uses up some of that excess :aether quanta. It seems like your :darkness quanta is a little bit strained already (also :death and :gravity, but that's another story altogether), and I find that having one of each type of instant permanent control relieves some of that quanta strain. Also, do you usually have enough quanta to power your Otyugh and Octopus' abilities?
Post by: Brontos on October 24, 2011, 03:24:49 am
:death is ok because I don't need to have them all at the same time. Most of the time, I can play with only one and support it with Otyugh (or even a Cat from a SoSe, which is quite frequent).
:darkness is fine too, because I don't need eveything at the same time. The worst situation is when I need 5 of it to play a Steal and the dagger. As you said, mono-aether is quite frequent in silver/bronze, and I like to have solutions for them. If they stack Lobotomisers, they can be painfull.
:gravity is the shortest one. If I can, I steal a Gravity pillar to make it easier. And I nearly never play the second Otyugh if I can avoid it. Already happened to me to lose because I don't have enough of it. Any ideas are welcome, but I'd like to keep the Otyugh, they win games by themselves and their synergy with the Bone Wall is insane.
:water is fine (short if I need to perma freeze too much). I don't know why, but AI loves to kill it first anyway. Even if I love the Squid and if it saved my life many times, I'm thinking about trying a Mind Flayer. It's just that, the Queen need 7 :air and the Mind Flayer 1 :air too... it could create an issue where I don't have one. :)
I shall try to remove the Phonix for a PU. I was playing one in the previous versions, and found myself not using it but in "overkill" situations. Also, I'm frequently eating my Phoenix to feed the wall and block Immortals or whatever. Something I can't do with a PU.
Thanks for the feedback. Good points!!
Post by: mwaetht on October 24, 2011, 04:49:03 am
Post by: Brontos on October 24, 2011, 04:51:34 am
Post by: furballdn on October 28, 2011, 03:24:38 am
Post by: Brontos on October 28, 2011, 03:31:05 am
Here is the last version:
(With 6x SoSe)
Results are good. I got special spins in all leagues.
I have issues against:
- Ghostmare. They are just a huge pain.
- Good hands in fire rush. Close fights when they are well constructed.
- Poisons (but neither poison nor SoSa are that frequent in Arena).
Post by: xsindomanx on October 28, 2011, 05:12:25 am
Gratz on getting the SoSe that you need for grinding plat!
Looks like a very good deck, with enough quarta for all the SoSe extra cards and a pretty good use of most cards.
Just in case you want some feedback:
- I like pandemonium better than the fallen druid. First of all, they are only one cost apart from each other, so that's not a very big difference. Upped druid not only has a possibility of making a creature better since it doesn't have abomination / death part, but also use life quarta that FFQ uses.Using the 'gold league killer' I often had trouble getting all the fire quarta for a destroyer and ONE explosion quickly. You do have some more quarta production, so I don't know how it will work out, but since you seem to have trouble with 'close battles' against fire rushes and poison and such, a heal might work out?For weapon, you do have a crusader which would enhance the 'vampire' effect, but have you thought of a lobo?
Post by: Brontos on October 29, 2011, 11:23:48 am
- i just use the druid as a "bad ally recycler". When i have a big Otyugh on the field and a bone wall, I don't need the Octopus, for instance. Or I can turn the flies produces by the Queen. And quite frequently, the allies that comes from SoSe.
Pandemonium is awesome too. Knowing that with 6 SoSe, you will have good chances to have Pandemonium or the Druid, in the end, it's just a matter of preference. :)
- no fire quanta issues at all. I just need to pay attention to the 3 random quantas taken by the shards. It's Enthropy that I watch the most. I don't play the Destroyer if I can avoid it. He's too fragile to come first and he's my only pumpable one.
- Listing all the healing option available, I came to the conclusion that Crusader+Vampiric is the best one for me. It's offensive and efficient. Only Black Hole and Nightmare were seducing compared to it. this means that I will do my best to build the combo during my games, avoiding to play the weapon too early, or to take another weapon on the crusader.
Lobotomiser is good, but it takes a slot in the deck that I don't have, it could be stolen and used against me (it's too strong against me), and If I wanted to play one, it would be instead of the Squid, as an UliTharid. :)
I constantly make modifications. I'm sure I will try your ideas sooner or later. :)
Post by: gumbeh on October 29, 2011, 09:03:10 pm
Post by: Brontos on October 30, 2011, 03:05:30 am
I'm still with the last one I've post. Very good results in all leagues so far, I stopped bronze (I think I'm 100% in bronze) to make much more electrums. I even stopped FG, arena with SoSe is much more fun. :)
Too bad I'm too lazy to gather stats for this deck. I think they could be very good, and with a lot of EM since I can keep a Bone wall up all game long and heal.
I need solutions for SoSa, poisons & Ghostmare still. :(
Post by: xsindomanx on October 30, 2011, 06:06:13 am
By poison, you mean neurotoxin? You would have problems with an early neurotoxin, since you are essentially playing a rather big deck.
The obvious solutions are:
- Poison / Neurotoxin: Purify, miracle, heal, vampireGhostmare: Any completely blocking shield, heal, sundialSosa: -.- nothing really...I guess a purple nymph + SoR could work :P
Post by: Brontos on October 30, 2011, 12:37:13 pm
All poisons are problematic. And just too much when combined with SoSac. I was playing Purify once, but it's an expensive slot in a SoSe rainbow.
Ghostmare is like hell on Earth for me. You play with your starting hand all game long, and a few Gotp in bonus with it. Most of the time, I don't have the quantas to play my creatures a second time (after the tastefull Rewind/Eternity). The only solution I see is to play Time towers to be able to play the Gotp myself (when I win against it, I usually can steal one).
As I said in another post today, I trained against my Sosa-poison deck with different rainbows, and I never won. With or without Purify. I don't know a solution to this combo. If you purify the poison, you still can't win under SoSa while the creatures & Arsenic are killing you. And if you don't, you just die slowly. :) Any deck list (not isolated cards) is welcome!
Post by: gumbeh on October 31, 2011, 09:47:23 am
I would evaluate poison and nightmare independently. Which one annoys you more? Which one is used more frequently? Then, decide whether you can change 1-4 cards in your deck enough to counter one decktype, and accept that you will lose to the other.
Ghostmare can be partially countered by playstyle changes, too. Hang on to as many cards in hand as you can afford, play cards wherein you can afford to play it again or you need to play it to win. Maybe abuse Serendipity less for the useful cards, and more for Serendipity's ability to fill your hand and block many ghosts from appearing in it. I agree, though, that ghostmare is still tough even if you play "right" against it.
Post by: Brontos on October 31, 2011, 01:24:03 pm
I face them a lot. I only win when I can steal time towers and when I have a good pile of quantum towers myself. This way, I can afford to pay my creatures a few times.
So if I wanted to adapt my deck a little to increase my winrate against Ghostmare, I'd add 2 towers.
Post by: gumbeh on October 31, 2011, 10:21:40 pm
FWIW, here's my theorycrafting on brontobow vs Ghostmare:
Time towers represent a creature-based solution to Ghostmare. Most creature-based solutions fail due to Reverse Time, as I'm sure you've seen with your Otyugh. Your Oty gets rewound, isn't able to do its job, and the ghosts power straight through your shield and your 100 HP. If you are using time towers to play the ghosts, those will get rewound as well. 2 towers aren't going to produce enough quanta to dump the ghosts in your hand as well as the ghosts that were rewound into your deck. The towers would be wastes of space when you're not fighting Ghostmare, too, because your deck doesn't use :time quanta except via Serendipity.
The first question is, what can be replaced? IMO, you can afford to lose 2 quantum towers, but I don't know how much quanta you typically burn via 6xSerendipity. I only have 2.As for replacements, you could use Lightning to kill the ghosts, helping feed your Bonewall when Oty can't do it. Lightning can help with dune scorps, too. You could take an Electrum Hourglass or two, at the risk of them being stolen and used by the enemy. A better choice might be Sundials, as they give you some respite from the damage rush as well as help you draw deeper into your deck past the rewound creatures. If ghostmare steals your sundial, you still get a turn of respite from damage, and ghostmare can't use the dial's draw power.
A backup, more reliable shield could also help - Fog Shield, Mirror Shield, Diamond Shield, Phase Shield, or Skull Shield could all potentially work, though for many of them you again risk having it stolen.
Here's a deck that commonly crushes my SoSac - YMMV since the enemy deck obviously has 2x draw, instead of the other way around. 24 turns of SoSac is very very good, whereas players themselves only get 12.
(http://i.imgur.com/jq90k.jpg)
Post by: Brontos on November 02, 2011, 04:15:40 am
??=SoSe
I've done 50 games yesterday evening in platinium only.
Won 30, with 4 EM and a top ranked one (lots of electrums ^^).
Got 5 spins.
Lost 20.
That's a correct 60%. :)
Post by: Calindu on November 02, 2011, 04:37:40 pm
Post by: loadquo on November 02, 2011, 06:50:48 pm
Post by: Brontos on November 02, 2011, 07:23:26 pm
The problem is that I won't draw it, because against them, if you don't have the card in your starting hand, then you're doomed. You will just either draw the rewinded ones, not draw because of nightmare, or do no damage.
And if things are going well, that's because they don't have a good hand, and in this case, I win anyway by spamming creatures and CC/Bonewall.
But Quint+Otyugh is really a perfect solution to Ghostmare.
@calindu221: yep this card is the key to everything. The number of times I got an incredible solution to a crappy situation is huge. :]
It's really a "never surrender deck".
I increased the sample for the stats, and reached a 59% wins with 8 spins in 100 games. The number of spins is disapointing and doesn't match my experience with this deck during the previous week as I have the feeling I got more.
Post by: gumbeh on November 03, 2011, 10:05:59 am
Post by: Brontos on November 03, 2011, 11:01:10 am
Post by: xsindomanx on November 03, 2011, 04:16:14 pm
Do you have any stats? :P
Post by: Brontos on November 03, 2011, 05:02:51 pm
Post by: mycale on November 03, 2011, 07:53:49 pm
Post by: Brontos on November 04, 2011, 02:44:12 am
When the AI starts it's SoSac chain, instead of trying to reduce your damage output, increase it to the maximum you can, and wait the end of the chain to two-shot it. The Crusader HAS to endow the Vampire if you want to survive the poison tokens. Try to get more endow mutants with the druid too. Don't hesitate to use the druid on the Squid, the Otyugh etc. You need big damage and endow mutants.
If you ever have 2 antimatter in the SoSe, use them on your big hitter only, and reverse him to the previous state at the end of the SoSac.
I also won against some Ghostmare, but I got lucky I think with the SoSe and the quantums I got. No changes in the strategy.
@Mycale: if you need some rares, this deck has something like 99% win rate in bronze league. ;)
But this deck has a few rules of its own that you will discover in a few dozens of games, mainly about the quantum/SoSe management during the early game. With some experience, you can do awesome tricks! :p
Post by: loadquo on November 06, 2011, 12:28:44 am
Post by: Calindu on November 08, 2011, 08:36:34 pm
Seems like it is good enough.
Post by: furballdn on November 09, 2011, 01:00:52 am
Post by: Brontos on November 09, 2011, 09:10:45 am
I already gave stats for 100 games in platinium on page 2.
I'd love it to be moved, but I don't know how to do this. Asking a modo?
Post by: willng3 on November 09, 2011, 03:50:44 pm
Post by: Brontos on November 09, 2011, 04:27:56 pm
The OP is 100% modified. :)
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on November 16, 2011, 09:24:41 pm
Wish i had another 5 of them, only 1 atm :(