Post by: pikachufan2164 on December 14, 2010, 11:02:31 am
This deck was posted before the 1.32 game update and as a result may work very differently now. Use at your own risk.
Since I revealed my FG farming deck yesterday in Chat, and the next update is coming out soon, I figured that I may as well post it in the forums. As you can tell, this is another variation on the popular CCYB (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9545.0.html) made by Amilir.
The deck is named for its methods of soft creature control:
- Antimatter -- An amazing survival card turns the high attack points of enemy creatures in your favour.
- Aflatoxin -- An excellent method of board control if launched early and you're able to hide behind a shield.
- Liquid Shadow -- A utility card that functions as a one-shot Lobo spell if drawn early, and an EM tool if drawn late against FGs that don't require Quint. It's also part of the Liquid Antimatter combo if drawn mid-game after a powerful enemy creature has been Antimattered.
Here are the other modifications I made to the orginal CCYB to get here, and the reasoning behind those choices (click the spoilers to see):
- -1 Improved Miracle -- If you're getting outrushed and are about to lose, it's not likely that you'll have the 12 :light to cast the spell anyway. As an EM tool, it's rather meh without also including Heal, and it's more practical to just calculate the damage and set it up so that your weapon gets the final hit.
- -1 Elite Queen -- FFQ is often the weak link of the deck, as generating Firelies is counterproductive against FGs like Neptune (Flooding), Graviton (Oty bait), and Osiris (Scarab bait). Also, with Fractal gone, there isn't as much of a need to have Elite Fireflies to produce :fire for spamming Fractaled Destroyers.
- -1 Fractal -- Without FFQ, Fractalling Destroyers isn't as effective as before, and it's only generally used as a late-game push. Fractalling Osiris's Scarabs could work, but you'll need to do it early on, and have enough :time and :gravity quanta to play them and Devour the opposing Scarabs.
- -1 Shard of Gratitude, -1 Electrum Hourglass -- The deck had to remain fairly slim for the Supernovas to have maximum benefit, so these extra copies had to be cut in order to make room for the new additions. :( I still miss my third Hourglass, since it doubles as both draw power and a buffer against Steals and Explosions.
- +1 Aflatoxin -- An excellent method of board control if launched early and you're able to hide behind a shield. Preventing the opponent from playing pesky creatures is always nice.
- +1 Protect Artifact -- Losing an Hourglass means losing a level of protection for your other permanents (since the AI preferentially steals/explodes Hourglasses over just about anything else), and having a protected Permafrost is amazing against FGs like Divine Glory, Eternal Phoenix, and Hermes. A protected Pulvy is ideal against Decay and Octane, since you'll already have the indestructible Jade Shield out to block their Bolts and Gases.
- +1 Jade Shield -- Ensures more frequent wins against Decay and Octane; once you draw it, you'll likely win or EM. It also adds a third shield to the deck so that you have an increased chance of drawing one to protect yourself in the early game.
- +1 Liquid Shadow -- A utility card that functions as a one-shot Lobo spell if drawn early (very useful in stopping annoying enemy creature abilities), and an EM tool if drawn late against FGs that don't require Quint. It's also part of the Liquid Antimatter combo if drawn mid-game after a powerful enemy creature has been Antimattered.
- +1 Mindgate -- A way to grab more creatures and control cards from the FG. It definitely makes Scorpio more playable if you can draw it early, and makes Elidnis easier -- you can now congeal both FGs' Puffer Fish to prevent their Venom from being applied. Against FGs with Miracle, Mindgated creatures can serve as your Fractal so you can get past the Miracles and win instead of decking out.
Strategy is roughly the same as CCYB: stall out the early phases with SoG/Shields, get Pulvy out to destroy any annoying permanents, then send out Quinted Destroyers for the win.
On drawing cards
Only draw if you need to find a key card (Shields/Pulvy/Quint/Destroyers). Stop drawing once you're roughly in control and have a damage source (Pulvy/Quinted Destroyer) in play, or you could deck out.
On Getting EMs
Roughly 3-4 turns before you're about to win, start counting the amount of damage you'll be doing; it helps to have a calculator for this. Strategically grow your Destroyers so that the killing blow is delivered by your weapon and the SoGs have a chance to heal you back to full HP.
Stats (v1.26)
107 wins - 118 losses (225 games played total)
47.56% win rate (47.23% normalized)
51.40% of the wins (55 of the 107) were EMs
Please keep in mind that I'm not a particularly good player (I'm still not way too sure as to when I should start playing SoGs in the early survival phase) and that I haven't played a few of the FGs enough to ensure a decent sample. Your mileage may vary.
Chaos Lord
8 wins (3 of them EMs), 2 losses
Widely variable, but generally on the tough side due to mutants, Steals, and Explosions. Put up Hourglasses as Steal/Explosion bait, and save Antimatters for high attack creatures with abilities. Liquid Shadow really annoying mutants (Steal, etc.) and Druids. Protected Permafrost is a good thing here. Decking out could be a problem if you can't destroy his Dissipation Fields.
Dark Matter
0 wins (0 of them EMs), 8 losses
Insanely difficult due to Black Hole spamming. If they get a Gravity Nymph when you don't have something to use against it (i.e. Liquid Shadow, Mindgated Quinted Oty, etc.) to use in response, you're doomed. An early Aflatoxin may also help so that it fills their field with Cells, leaving them without any room to place their creatures in. Antimatter the Chargers or Momentumed large creatures. Remember, it's pretty much an auto-loss once a Gravity Nymph comes into play and you don't have an answer for it.
Decay
9 wins (6 of them EMs), 1 loss
Easy and almost a definite EM if you can get Jade Shield out in time (and have some spare quanta to counteract the Devourers' drain), difficult if you can't. Protect your Pulvy, or have some Hourglasses as bait when you play it -- you don't want it to get stolen, as it's your only defence against Dusk Shield and Eclipse (if you don't have a shield out by then). Early Supernovas are a lifesaver in this match-up.
Destiny
5 wins (2 of them EMs), 0 losses
Easy, provided that the AI doesn't get lucky and hatch Dragons/Nymphs from their Fate Eggs. An early shield with a few Shards provides you with a sufficient early defence while you wait for your Quinted Destroyers to appear. Destroy Hourglasses and Eternities with your Pulvy whenever possible so that their drawing doesn't get out of control. Antimatter Chaos Powered creatures or mutants with high attack power. Druids and annoying mutants can be Liquid Shadowed out of the way.
Divine Glory
1 wins (0 of them EMs), 11 losses
Difficult, because of all the dead cards in your deck (flying Glories are untargetable), their insane amount of permanent control, and Miracles. Try to hold on to your Shards so that they avoid the initial Explosion spree, or put lots of Hourglasses and Pulvy as bait. Protected Permafrost is very useful for damage reduction, with both its regular shielding ability and its freeze chance. Preventing Miracles is a priority in the late game, since you could end up decking out if you don't time your attacks right. Without Fractal, it's a lot harder to do because the best that Mindgate can do is give you more Flying Weapons and Glories to fly for the final Miracle-avoiding hit. Liquid Shadow your first Destroyer at the end to ensure an easy EM.
Dream Catcher
2 wins (1 of them EMs), 11 losses
Variable, but generally quite difficult due to their permanent control on a stick (Butterfly Effect). If they get a Butterflied creature out early, then you're in deep trouble. Use Liquid Shadow on creatures that have been Butterflied or the Physlias. Jade Shield or a protected Permafrost work wonders here. There's nothing really worth Antimattering unless they Hatch something good from a Fate Egg.
Elidnis
6 wins (3 of them EMs), 4 losses
Pretty easy if you can get an early shield up; Puffer Fish could still be a problem if you can't find your Shards and Permafrost in time. An early Pulvy can destroy Bonds and disrupt their shaky quanta generation by destroying their Towers. Mindgate is amazing if you can grab their Congeals and use them on their own Puffer Fish. Liquid Shadow a Puffer Fish or a small Forest Spectre to get rid of their annoying abilities. Antimatter a large Forest Spectre. Don't try to Antimatter the Pufferfish -- it will only ensure that its poison attack goes through your shields every time. Aflatoxin is a double-edged sword. On one hand, you'll prevent them from playing any more annoying creatures. On the other hand, you may risk decking out if they pull enough Bonds for healing and you can't destroy them quickly enough with Pulvy.
Eternal Phoenix
0 win (0 of them EMs), 8 losses
Quite difficult due to Phoenix spamming and Explosions. Jade Shield or a protected Permafrost, along with Antimattered Ruby Dragons will hopefully keep you alive long enough to win. Try to hold on to your Shards so that your Hourglasses, Pulvy (essentially a dead card because there isn't anything worth destroying), and Towers are Explosion bait. The only way for Aflatoxin to be used is if played on a Ruby Dragon (though you'd rather Antimatter it instead), or by using Liquid Shadow first on the Phoenix (to remove its Phoenix ability).
Ferox
10 wins (4 of them EMs), 1 loss
Not bad if you can get your shield and Shards up in time, but you are prone to being outrushed. Antimatter the Dragons or large Adrenalined creatures, but don't hesitate to use it on the Frogs and Cockatrices if you're on the verge of losing. Alternately, you can Liquid Shadow the Adrenalined ones, or save your LS to use on your own Destroyer at the end for an EM win. Destroy their Bonds with Pulvy. Again, Aflatoxin is a double-edged sword, and even more so than with Elidnis since Ferox has 12 of them. If you can't destroy their Bonds in time, you might deck out.
Fire Queen
4 win (0 of them EMs), 8 losses
Easy if you can grab a shield and Shards in the early game. Antimatter flown Eagle's Eyes and Fahrenheits, destroy their Bonds with Pulvy, and use LS on their FFQ to help slow the swarming. Permafrost is amazing in this match-up. The real difficulty is in the endgame, however. Aflatoxin is still a gamble with the threat of decking out if you can't get rid of their Bonds quickly, but their field will be full of Fireflies anyway, so it doesn't matter as much in this situation. Destroy their Bonds quickly, or you might deck out.
Gemini
3 win (2 of them EMs), 1 loss
Not too bad unless you get outrushed or TU spammed in the late game. Shields up (Permafrost is great here) and Shards will let you survive long enough to bring Destroyers out. An early Aflatoxin used on a Phase Recluse is amazing, as it allows you to fill their field with Cells and prevent TU spamming and also lets you skip Quinting your Destroyers (provided that you have Pulvy out and enough quanta to power it and destroy Electrocutors). Antimatter their Momentumed creatures; Liquid Shadow can be used on Momentumed Recluses in the early game to get rid of them. Make sure that you can find and fuel your Pulvy -- if you can't destroy their Phase Shield chains, you will deck out.
Graviton
0 wins (0 of them EMs), 4 losses
Insanely difficult. Momentumed, growing creatures are horrible enough already, but they also have Explosions to make you even angrier. Even the mighty protected Permafrost has problems if too many of their creatures are Momentumed. Use your Antimatters wisely on larger and Momentumed Firemasters, and Liquid Shadow should target opposing creatures with Momentum. As usual with opponents that have large amounts of permanent control, use your Hourglasses and Towers as bait to protect your shields, Shards, and Pulvy. Mindgating a Gravity Shield is very helpful, but you'll want to watch out for sudden applications of Momentum, which will ruin your game.
Hermes
1 win (0 of them EMs), 10 losses
Insanely difficult due to the amount of permanent control and rapidly growing creatures. Use your Towers and Hourglasses as Explosion bait while you try to get a Jade Shield or protected Permafrost into play, along with Shards for stalling. Hope that you get lucky with the Permafrost freeze chance -- your survival depends on the RNG. If their Destroyers get frozen, it's a suitable time to apply some Aflatoxin to it while they can't grow. Otherwise, just put it on a Brimstone Eater or Fire Spectre while you hide behind your shield and watch their field fill with Cells). Liquid Shadow is handy for getting rid of Antimatter their Ruby Dragons if you manage to get that far into the game.
Incarnate
7 wins (4 of them EMs), 2 losses
Pretty easy; you'll survive the early game, but beware of decking out. Antimatter the Vampires for an instant Liquid Antimatter effect. Bonus tip: if you Antimatter the Vampire BEFORE destroying their Eclipse with Pulvy, its attack will go from -6 to -8 when Eclipse is destroyed. Make destroying Eclipses a priority, followed by the Bone Walls -- they will be the bane of your existence in the late game, especially if you can't get Quinted Destroyers out relatively early.
Miracle
3 wins (0 of them EMs), 2 losses
Pretty easy, though you might get outrushed early or deck out due to Miracle spam if you're unlucky. Destroy their Shields and Light Towers whenever possible to prevent back-to-back Miracles. Antimatter the Dragons or blessed Pegasi -- the Liquid Antimatter combo works well here. Use Mindgate as an improvised Fractal by holding on to all your Mindgated creatures until you can play them all in one turn and win. Watch your damage output carefully; you don't want to deck out due to untimely Miracles.
Morte
2 wins (2 of them EMs), 5 losses
He has both Bone Walls and Miracles, so losses are decking out are much more common than with Miracle and Incarnate, but Morte is still fairly easy. Antimatter the Dragons, and you can Liquid Shadow them if you'd like -- their Archangels are nice enough to keep their Liquid Antimattered Dragons alive for you. You may wish to put a few of your Mindgated creatures on the field to help take out Bone Walls, and then save the rest to use as an improvised Fractal to avoid triggering Miracle.
Neptune
14 wins (10 of them EMs), 1 loss
Very easy, though you may lose due to getting outrushed by Dragons and Crawlers if the AI gets lucky and you can't get a shield out in time. Permafrost is a wonderful lifesaver. Antimatter goes on the Dragons; feel free to LS them if you want. Otherwise, Neptune's pretty straightforward to play against.
Obliterator
10 wins (4 of them EMs), 9 losses
Almost a coin flip match-up. Draw aggressively for an early Pulvy to destroy incoming opposing Pulvies, and hope that they don't get an early protected Pulvy. If they do get a protected Pulvy out, then protect your Permafrost (or use Jade Shield, though Permafrost works better in this case). Use the Liquid Antimatter combo on their Dragons -- preferably their Momentumed ones.
Octane
5 wins (3 of them EMs), 1 loss
Easy if you can get Jade Shield up early on, a little bit difficult if you can't. If you don't have Jade yet, destroy their Gases with your Pulvy. Antimatter their flown weapons.
Osiris
3 wins (2 of them EMs), 6 losses
Easy if you can find a shield and a Pulvy in time -- Permafrost is ideal in this match-up. Antimatter, Aflatoxin, and Mindgate aren't too useful because of their Scarabs' tendency to eat everything -- including Antimattered/Aflatoxined creatures and Cells! Liquid Shadow or Antimatter a Pharaoh (if it's early enough, so that Scarab production slows down) or a Momentumed creature (in hopes that the Scarabs will eat it). Catapults make him a little more dangerous, but as long as you can get Pulvy out to destroy them before too many Scarabs are launched at you, you're fine.
Paradox
2 wins (1 of them EMs), 3 losses
You could get outrushed early or deck out from Miracles, but it's still fairly easy. Permafrost is amazing here. Antimatter large Deja Vus; if you can get them before they split, the AI will still stupidly split them. Aflatoxin or Liquid Shadow their Rays of Light to minimize :light quanta production and therefore the Miracle spamming. If you can fill their field with Cells, then you won't need to Quint your Destroyers. The most difficult part of the duel is probably preventing the Miracle spam at the end.
Rainbow
4 wins (2 of them EMs), 6 losses
Very difficult due to the amount of permanent control, and also Miracles if you manage to survive to the endgame. If you can get a Pulvy to survive on the field (through clever Hourglass and Tower baiting), keep destroying their Hourglasses to reduce the amount of draw they have access to. If you can, protect your Permafrost. It's going to be rather difficult to work around Miracle, since the creatures gained from Mindgate require lots of growth time in order to be effective.
Scorpio
1 win (0 of them EMs), 7 losses
A little bit easier when you can get Mindgate working early, but it's still a hard match-up. Set up a Permafrost Shield quickly. Antimatter their Dragons, Liquid Shadow their Physalias or Puffer Fish. Mindgate can provide some support if it gives you Congeals to use on their Physalias and Puffers. Pulvy is useful in destroying their weapons and shields.
Seism
7 wins (6 of them EMs), 7 losses
Hard, but still winnable. Play your Towers one at a time until the AI ends their turn with more than 2 :earth left before quanta generation. Early Supernovas and/or a PA on your Towers makes life much easier. Permafrost is again very useful. Antimatter their Dragons (use the Liquid Antimatter combo on the Basalt Dragons, not the Silurian).
8 wins (3 of them EMs), 2 losses
Widely variable, but generally on the tough side due to mutants, Steals, and Explosions. Put up Hourglasses as Steal/Explosion bait, and save Antimatters for high attack creatures with abilities. Liquid Shadow really annoying mutants (Steal, etc.) and Druids. Protected Permafrost is a good thing here. Decking out could be a problem if you can't destroy his Dissipation Fields.
Dark Matter
0 wins (0 of them EMs), 8 losses
Insanely difficult due to Black Hole spamming. If they get a Gravity Nymph when you don't have something to use against it (i.e. Liquid Shadow, Mindgated Quinted Oty, etc.) to use in response, you're doomed. An early Aflatoxin may also help so that it fills their field with Cells, leaving them without any room to place their creatures in. Antimatter the Chargers or Momentumed large creatures. Remember, it's pretty much an auto-loss once a Gravity Nymph comes into play and you don't have an answer for it.
Decay
9 wins (6 of them EMs), 1 loss
Easy and almost a definite EM if you can get Jade Shield out in time (and have some spare quanta to counteract the Devourers' drain), difficult if you can't. Protect your Pulvy, or have some Hourglasses as bait when you play it -- you don't want it to get stolen, as it's your only defence against Dusk Shield and Eclipse (if you don't have a shield out by then). Early Supernovas are a lifesaver in this match-up.
Destiny
5 wins (2 of them EMs), 0 losses
Easy, provided that the AI doesn't get lucky and hatch Dragons/Nymphs from their Fate Eggs. An early shield with a few Shards provides you with a sufficient early defence while you wait for your Quinted Destroyers to appear. Destroy Hourglasses and Eternities with your Pulvy whenever possible so that their drawing doesn't get out of control. Antimatter Chaos Powered creatures or mutants with high attack power. Druids and annoying mutants can be Liquid Shadowed out of the way.
Divine Glory
1 wins (0 of them EMs), 11 losses
Difficult, because of all the dead cards in your deck (flying Glories are untargetable), their insane amount of permanent control, and Miracles. Try to hold on to your Shards so that they avoid the initial Explosion spree, or put lots of Hourglasses and Pulvy as bait. Protected Permafrost is very useful for damage reduction, with both its regular shielding ability and its freeze chance. Preventing Miracles is a priority in the late game, since you could end up decking out if you don't time your attacks right. Without Fractal, it's a lot harder to do because the best that Mindgate can do is give you more Flying Weapons and Glories to fly for the final Miracle-avoiding hit. Liquid Shadow your first Destroyer at the end to ensure an easy EM.
Dream Catcher
2 wins (1 of them EMs), 11 losses
Variable, but generally quite difficult due to their permanent control on a stick (Butterfly Effect). If they get a Butterflied creature out early, then you're in deep trouble. Use Liquid Shadow on creatures that have been Butterflied or the Physlias. Jade Shield or a protected Permafrost work wonders here. There's nothing really worth Antimattering unless they Hatch something good from a Fate Egg.
Elidnis
6 wins (3 of them EMs), 4 losses
Pretty easy if you can get an early shield up; Puffer Fish could still be a problem if you can't find your Shards and Permafrost in time. An early Pulvy can destroy Bonds and disrupt their shaky quanta generation by destroying their Towers. Mindgate is amazing if you can grab their Congeals and use them on their own Puffer Fish. Liquid Shadow a Puffer Fish or a small Forest Spectre to get rid of their annoying abilities. Antimatter a large Forest Spectre. Don't try to Antimatter the Pufferfish -- it will only ensure that its poison attack goes through your shields every time. Aflatoxin is a double-edged sword. On one hand, you'll prevent them from playing any more annoying creatures. On the other hand, you may risk decking out if they pull enough Bonds for healing and you can't destroy them quickly enough with Pulvy.
Eternal Phoenix
0 win (0 of them EMs), 8 losses
Quite difficult due to Phoenix spamming and Explosions. Jade Shield or a protected Permafrost, along with Antimattered Ruby Dragons will hopefully keep you alive long enough to win. Try to hold on to your Shards so that your Hourglasses, Pulvy (essentially a dead card because there isn't anything worth destroying), and Towers are Explosion bait. The only way for Aflatoxin to be used is if played on a Ruby Dragon (though you'd rather Antimatter it instead), or by using Liquid Shadow first on the Phoenix (to remove its Phoenix ability).
Ferox
10 wins (4 of them EMs), 1 loss
Not bad if you can get your shield and Shards up in time, but you are prone to being outrushed. Antimatter the Dragons or large Adrenalined creatures, but don't hesitate to use it on the Frogs and Cockatrices if you're on the verge of losing. Alternately, you can Liquid Shadow the Adrenalined ones, or save your LS to use on your own Destroyer at the end for an EM win. Destroy their Bonds with Pulvy. Again, Aflatoxin is a double-edged sword, and even more so than with Elidnis since Ferox has 12 of them. If you can't destroy their Bonds in time, you might deck out.
Fire Queen
4 win (0 of them EMs), 8 losses
Easy if you can grab a shield and Shards in the early game. Antimatter flown Eagle's Eyes and Fahrenheits, destroy their Bonds with Pulvy, and use LS on their FFQ to help slow the swarming. Permafrost is amazing in this match-up. The real difficulty is in the endgame, however. Aflatoxin is still a gamble with the threat of decking out if you can't get rid of their Bonds quickly, but their field will be full of Fireflies anyway, so it doesn't matter as much in this situation. Destroy their Bonds quickly, or you might deck out.
Gemini
3 win (2 of them EMs), 1 loss
Not too bad unless you get outrushed or TU spammed in the late game. Shields up (Permafrost is great here) and Shards will let you survive long enough to bring Destroyers out. An early Aflatoxin used on a Phase Recluse is amazing, as it allows you to fill their field with Cells and prevent TU spamming and also lets you skip Quinting your Destroyers (provided that you have Pulvy out and enough quanta to power it and destroy Electrocutors). Antimatter their Momentumed creatures; Liquid Shadow can be used on Momentumed Recluses in the early game to get rid of them. Make sure that you can find and fuel your Pulvy -- if you can't destroy their Phase Shield chains, you will deck out.
Graviton
0 wins (0 of them EMs), 4 losses
Insanely difficult. Momentumed, growing creatures are horrible enough already, but they also have Explosions to make you even angrier. Even the mighty protected Permafrost has problems if too many of their creatures are Momentumed. Use your Antimatters wisely on larger and Momentumed Firemasters, and Liquid Shadow should target opposing creatures with Momentum. As usual with opponents that have large amounts of permanent control, use your Hourglasses and Towers as bait to protect your shields, Shards, and Pulvy. Mindgating a Gravity Shield is very helpful, but you'll want to watch out for sudden applications of Momentum, which will ruin your game.
Hermes
1 win (0 of them EMs), 10 losses
Insanely difficult due to the amount of permanent control and rapidly growing creatures. Use your Towers and Hourglasses as Explosion bait while you try to get a Jade Shield or protected Permafrost into play, along with Shards for stalling. Hope that you get lucky with the Permafrost freeze chance -- your survival depends on the RNG. If their Destroyers get frozen, it's a suitable time to apply some Aflatoxin to it while they can't grow. Otherwise, just put it on a Brimstone Eater or Fire Spectre while you hide behind your shield and watch their field fill with Cells). Liquid Shadow is handy for getting rid of Antimatter their Ruby Dragons if you manage to get that far into the game.
Incarnate
7 wins (4 of them EMs), 2 losses
Pretty easy; you'll survive the early game, but beware of decking out. Antimatter the Vampires for an instant Liquid Antimatter effect. Bonus tip: if you Antimatter the Vampire BEFORE destroying their Eclipse with Pulvy, its attack will go from -6 to -8 when Eclipse is destroyed. Make destroying Eclipses a priority, followed by the Bone Walls -- they will be the bane of your existence in the late game, especially if you can't get Quinted Destroyers out relatively early.
Miracle
3 wins (0 of them EMs), 2 losses
Pretty easy, though you might get outrushed early or deck out due to Miracle spam if you're unlucky. Destroy their Shields and Light Towers whenever possible to prevent back-to-back Miracles. Antimatter the Dragons or blessed Pegasi -- the Liquid Antimatter combo works well here. Use Mindgate as an improvised Fractal by holding on to all your Mindgated creatures until you can play them all in one turn and win. Watch your damage output carefully; you don't want to deck out due to untimely Miracles.
Morte
2 wins (2 of them EMs), 5 losses
He has both Bone Walls and Miracles, so losses are decking out are much more common than with Miracle and Incarnate, but Morte is still fairly easy. Antimatter the Dragons, and you can Liquid Shadow them if you'd like -- their Archangels are nice enough to keep their Liquid Antimattered Dragons alive for you. You may wish to put a few of your Mindgated creatures on the field to help take out Bone Walls, and then save the rest to use as an improvised Fractal to avoid triggering Miracle.
Neptune
14 wins (10 of them EMs), 1 loss
Very easy, though you may lose due to getting outrushed by Dragons and Crawlers if the AI gets lucky and you can't get a shield out in time. Permafrost is a wonderful lifesaver. Antimatter goes on the Dragons; feel free to LS them if you want. Otherwise, Neptune's pretty straightforward to play against.
Obliterator
10 wins (4 of them EMs), 9 losses
Almost a coin flip match-up. Draw aggressively for an early Pulvy to destroy incoming opposing Pulvies, and hope that they don't get an early protected Pulvy. If they do get a protected Pulvy out, then protect your Permafrost (or use Jade Shield, though Permafrost works better in this case). Use the Liquid Antimatter combo on their Dragons -- preferably their Momentumed ones.
Octane
5 wins (3 of them EMs), 1 loss
Easy if you can get Jade Shield up early on, a little bit difficult if you can't. If you don't have Jade yet, destroy their Gases with your Pulvy. Antimatter their flown weapons.
Osiris
3 wins (2 of them EMs), 6 losses
Easy if you can find a shield and a Pulvy in time -- Permafrost is ideal in this match-up. Antimatter, Aflatoxin, and Mindgate aren't too useful because of their Scarabs' tendency to eat everything -- including Antimattered/Aflatoxined creatures and Cells! Liquid Shadow or Antimatter a Pharaoh (if it's early enough, so that Scarab production slows down) or a Momentumed creature (in hopes that the Scarabs will eat it). Catapults make him a little more dangerous, but as long as you can get Pulvy out to destroy them before too many Scarabs are launched at you, you're fine.
Paradox
2 wins (1 of them EMs), 3 losses
You could get outrushed early or deck out from Miracles, but it's still fairly easy. Permafrost is amazing here. Antimatter large Deja Vus; if you can get them before they split, the AI will still stupidly split them. Aflatoxin or Liquid Shadow their Rays of Light to minimize :light quanta production and therefore the Miracle spamming. If you can fill their field with Cells, then you won't need to Quint your Destroyers. The most difficult part of the duel is probably preventing the Miracle spam at the end.
Rainbow
4 wins (2 of them EMs), 6 losses
Very difficult due to the amount of permanent control, and also Miracles if you manage to survive to the endgame. If you can get a Pulvy to survive on the field (through clever Hourglass and Tower baiting), keep destroying their Hourglasses to reduce the amount of draw they have access to. If you can, protect your Permafrost. It's going to be rather difficult to work around Miracle, since the creatures gained from Mindgate require lots of growth time in order to be effective.
Scorpio
1 win (0 of them EMs), 7 losses
A little bit easier when you can get Mindgate working early, but it's still a hard match-up. Set up a Permafrost Shield quickly. Antimatter their Dragons, Liquid Shadow their Physalias or Puffer Fish. Mindgate can provide some support if it gives you Congeals to use on their Physalias and Puffers. Pulvy is useful in destroying their weapons and shields.
Seism
7 wins (6 of them EMs), 7 losses
Hard, but still winnable. Play your Towers one at a time until the AI ends their turn with more than 2 :earth left before quanta generation. Early Supernovas and/or a PA on your Towers makes life much easier. Permafrost is again very useful. Antimatter their Dragons (use the Liquid Antimatter combo on the Basalt Dragons, not the Silurian).
Possible Modifications
I've found Liquid Shadow to be a little lacking, because it's only a one-shot card and I've rarely had the opportunity to use it for achieving an EM.
You might wish to remove it for one of the following cards (in no particular order of recommendation):
- Improved Heal -- For easier EMs.
- Miracle -- For mid-game survival. I'm still not particularly convinced that it will save you in the early game, because of the number of turns needed to save up 12 :light.
- Air Nymph -- More damage and even some creature control from the Unstable Gases it generates. However, this does conflict with Aflatoxin.
- Improved Fog -- More early-game stalling so that you can survive to set up the combo.
- Electrum Hourglass -- Having a third Hourglass allows for more consistent draw power, and also more bait to draw permanent control away from your Shields, Shards, and Pulvy.
- Improved Dusk -- Early-game stalling so that you can survive.
- Steal -- Take away threats from the opponent and use them yourself. Generally only used to take away enemy shields, weapons, and Bonds.
- Silence -- Counters FGs with Miracles, and also helps slow down the opponent if they don't use Miracles.
Epic Screenshots
Click HERE (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17625.msg254666.html#msg254666) for a collection of winning screenshots against a variety of FGs.
Soon to come:
- More v1.26 testing
- More epic screenshots of the deck at work?
- Possible changes/substitutions to the deck?
135 wins - 146 losses (281 games played total)
48.04% win rate (47.48% normalized)
44.44% of the wins (60 of the 135) were EMs
48.04% win rate (47.48% normalized)
44.44% of the wins (60 of the 135) were EMs
Chaos Lord -- 4 wins (1 of them EMs), 10 losses
Dark Matter -- 0 wins (0 of them EMs), 6 losses
Decay -- 7 wins (6 of them EMs), 6 losses
Destiny -- 16 wins (5 of them EMs), 2 losses
Divine Glory -- 3 wins (2 of them EMs), 10 losses
Dream Catcher -- 4 wins (2 of them EMs), 5 losses
Elidnis -- 8 wins (2 of them EMs), 2 losses
Eternal Phoenix -- 1 win (0 of them EMs), 12 losses
Ferox -- 4 wins (3 of them EMs), 5 losses
Fire Queen -- 8 wins (3 of them EMs), 4 losses
Gemini -- 3 wins (2 of them EMs), 2 losses
Graviton -- 0 wins (0 of them EMs), 12 losses
Hermes -- 1 win (0 of them EMs), 17 losses
Incarnate -- 8 wins (5 of them EMs), 2 losses
Miracle -- 4 wins (1 of them EMs), 2 losses
Morte -- 10 wins (2 of them EMs), 4 losses
Neptune -- 13 wins (10 of them EMs), 2 losses
Obliterator -- 7 wins (1 of them EMs), 6 losses
Octane -- 6 wins (4 of them EMs), 6 losses
Osiris -- 5 wins (2 of them EMs), 3 losses
Paradox -- 11 wins (6 of them EMs), 5 losses
Rainbow -- 1 win (0 of them EMs), 8 losses
Scorpio -- 5 wins (0 of them EMs), 6 losses
Seism -- 6 wins (3 of them EMs), 9 losses
Dark Matter -- 0 wins (0 of them EMs), 6 losses
Decay -- 7 wins (6 of them EMs), 6 losses
Destiny -- 16 wins (5 of them EMs), 2 losses
Divine Glory -- 3 wins (2 of them EMs), 10 losses
Dream Catcher -- 4 wins (2 of them EMs), 5 losses
Elidnis -- 8 wins (2 of them EMs), 2 losses
Eternal Phoenix -- 1 win (0 of them EMs), 12 losses
Ferox -- 4 wins (3 of them EMs), 5 losses
Fire Queen -- 8 wins (3 of them EMs), 4 losses
Gemini -- 3 wins (2 of them EMs), 2 losses
Graviton -- 0 wins (0 of them EMs), 12 losses
Hermes -- 1 win (0 of them EMs), 17 losses
Incarnate -- 8 wins (5 of them EMs), 2 losses
Miracle -- 4 wins (1 of them EMs), 2 losses
Morte -- 10 wins (2 of them EMs), 4 losses
Neptune -- 13 wins (10 of them EMs), 2 losses
Obliterator -- 7 wins (1 of them EMs), 6 losses
Octane -- 6 wins (4 of them EMs), 6 losses
Osiris -- 5 wins (2 of them EMs), 3 losses
Paradox -- 11 wins (6 of them EMs), 5 losses
Rainbow -- 1 win (0 of them EMs), 8 losses
Scorpio -- 5 wins (0 of them EMs), 6 losses
Seism -- 6 wins (3 of them EMs), 9 losses
Post by: wavedash on December 14, 2010, 06:40:21 pm
I would recommend +1 Air Nymph if you have one.
I've found Liquid Shadow to be really situational, so I removed it from my CCWB deck a long time ago.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 14, 2010, 09:24:09 pm
it has help me so many times when i am not rly being out-rushed, but my shield is like way in the bottom of my deck, this buys me about 5 or 6 turns (with the antimatter heal and the SoG heal)
Add a comment to Eternal Phoenix: If you get a jade shield out early enough, it's almost a promised victory. However protected Permafrost is more desirable.
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 15, 2010, 12:04:21 am
Post by: Baily18 on December 15, 2010, 01:37:56 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 15, 2010, 02:09:36 am
You took out FFQ?
FFQ is a fantastic creature, but in this deck, it's not that good... I actually like this deck very much, though I do add in an Improved Heal, as it gives me some EMs, and it can sometimes give me an additional turn.
FFQ doesn't add that much damage, the two Lava Destroyers are all you really need for damage. Also, if you would like more creatures, the Mindgate works wonders (did I mention that this deck is more fun to play with than the original CCWB? Mainly because of the Mindgate)
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 15, 2010, 02:10:12 am
^well its not there is it? o: unless im blind o0Let me rephrase that; Why did you take Fire Queen out?
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 15, 2010, 02:11:27 am
Omg when you posted this I was working on response lol.You took out FFQ?
FFQ is a fantastic creature, but in this deck, it's not that good... I actually like this deck very much, though I do add in an Improved Heal, as it gives me some EMs, and it can sometimes give me an additional turn.
FFQ doesn't add that much damage, the two Lava Destroyers are all you really need for damage. Also, if you would like more creatures, the Mindgate works wonders (did I mention that this deck is more fun to play with than the original CCWB? Mainly because of the Mindgate)
Post by: ddevans96 on December 15, 2010, 03:16:07 am
Post by: pikachufan2164 on December 16, 2010, 03:22:39 pm
- More stats
- More individual FG strategies (11 more to go!)
Improved Heal definitely will increase your EM rate. It also places less train on the player, as it's just an easy win button instead of having to bring up a calculator.Yes, Improved Heal will get me more EMs, but I'd rather increase my win rate first. More chances at upped cards beat out the small (in comparison to the sell-back value of an upped card) EM bonus any day. I also like doing a little number crunching with my FG grinding. :P
I would recommend +1 Air Nymph if you have one.
I've found Liquid Shadow to be really situational, so I removed it from my CCWB deck a long time ago.
If only I got my hands on an Air Nymph.... If I did have one, then I would probably remove the Liquid Shadow for it.
Just out of curiosity, why did you find Liquid Shadow to be too situational? I find that if I draw it early, I'm using LS for its pseudo-Lobo ability. If I draw it late, I'm going for the Liquid Antimatter combo with it and number crunching for the EM. Very rarely do I ever get to use it on my own creatures as an EM tool.
Precisely.You took out FFQ?FFQ is a fantastic creature, but in this deck, it's not that good... I actually like this deck very much, though I do add in an Improved Heal, as it gives me some EMs, and it can sometimes give me an additional turn.
FFQ doesn't add that much damage, the two Lava Destroyers are all you really need for damage. Also, if you would like more creatures, the Mindgate works wonders (did I mention that this deck is more fun to play with than the original CCWB? Mainly because of the Mindgate)
FFQ isn't all too useful as it should be in a lot of situations (described in the spoilers on the OP), so I replaced it with a few more utility cards.
Off-topic, but I noticed that this post is drastically different from your usual posting style -- it's actually following the conventions of spelling and grammar. Please continue to spell words out fully and capitalize when needed -- it makes your posts much more readable. :)
Post by: wavedash on December 16, 2010, 04:08:15 pm
Just out of curiosity, why did you find Liquid Shadow to be too situational? I find that if I draw it early, I'm using LS for its pseudo-Lobo ability. If I draw it late, I'm going for the Liquid Antimatter combo with it and number crunching for the EM. Very rarely do I ever get to use it on my own creatures as an EM tool.The problem was that a one-time use Lobotomizer isn't that great. You can't get it out really fast without a couple Supernovas. If you Lobotomize a Lava Destroyer, great, now Hermes plays fifty more Destroyers and you're done. Lobotomize a Pest? Well, it's still draining your quanta. Lobotomize a 8 / 8 Elite Deja Vu? Well, now it's healing Paradox for 8 turns, and he plays another three Deja Vus the next turn. A one-time use Lobotomizer isn't that great when the Gods have so many creatures. I haven't tried it, but maybe Steal could be useful. Easy mode against Graviton if you Steal a Gravity Shield and Protect Artifact it.
Post by: lukce on December 16, 2010, 04:34:11 pm
Post by: lokiburn4 on December 17, 2010, 06:24:00 am
thanks!
Post by: pikachufan2164 on December 17, 2010, 11:53:45 am
The problem was that a one-time use Lobotomizer isn't that great. You can't get it out really fast without a couple Supernovas. If you Lobotomize a Lava Destroyer, great, now Hermes plays fifty more Destroyers and you're done. Lobotomize a Pest? Well, it's still draining your quanta. Lobotomize a 8 / 8 Elite Deja Vu? Well, now it's healing Paradox for 8 turns, and he plays another three Deja Vus the next turn. A one-time use Lobotomizer isn't that great when the Gods have so many creatures. I haven't tried it, but maybe Steal could be useful. Easy mode against Graviton if you Steal a Gravity Shield and Protect Artifact it.Well reasoned. I'll probably drop Liquid Shadow for something else once I get stats up to an even 300 matches.
Here's a quick thought experiment on what each FG has that's worth Stealing:
Chaos Lord: Dissipation Field (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), Discord (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Dark Matter: Nothing
Decay: Dusk Shield (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), Lobotomizer (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Destiny: Hourglass (decent), Eternity (meh, due to your lack of creatures)
Divine Glory: Light Towers (only to prevent Miracle spam), Fire Towers (only to prevent Explosion spam)
Dream Catcher: Discord (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Elidnis: Jade Staff (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), Feral Bond (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Eternal Phoenix: Nothing
Ferox: Jade Staff (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), Feral Bond (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Fire Queen: Feral Bond (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), weapons (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Gemini: Phase Shield (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), Electrocutor (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Graviton: Gravity Shield (useful), Titan (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Hermes: Fire Shield (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), Fahrenheit (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Incarnate: Graveyard (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Miracle: Light Towers (only to prevent Miracle spam), Jade Staff (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), Solar Shield (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Morte: Graveyard (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), Arsenic (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Neptune: Permafrost (useful), weapons (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Obliterator: Diamond Shield (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), Pulverizer (useful)
Octane: Fire Shield (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it), Unstable Gas (rather meh), weapons (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Osiris: Turtle Shield (not terrible, but not particularly good either), Eternity (meh, due to your lack of creatures)
Paradox: Hourglass (decent)
Rainbow: Hourglass (decent)
Scorpio: Permafrost (useful), weapons (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)
Seism: Pulverizer (useful), Diamond Shield (only so they can't have it if you can't destroy it)In most cases, Steal is only good early on if you don't have the weapon/shield slot filled, or just to make sure that they can't use the permanent that you stole. Stealing a Gravity Shield from Graviton makes the match-up easier, but you still have to watch out for surprise Momentum attacks D:
First of all, I use the exact, just -Liquid and +Miracle. Also, I think 3 shields is more than enough. So maybe -Permafrost.Actually, I think that three shields still might not be enough. I'm toying with the idea of adding a Fog Shield to use as an early defensive measure, since it only costs 1 :air, which I'm not using now that FFQ is out of the picture and I've yet to spin an Air Nymph from the Oracle.
I enjoy this deck, thanks! CCYB is great, but you spoke true when you said the golem pair can do the trick. I did also trade out the LS for a Heal. easy EM.Nice to know that you liked the deck :)
thanks!
Post by: wavedash on December 17, 2010, 06:11:02 pm
Post by: BC on December 17, 2010, 09:52:05 pm
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 18, 2010, 01:32:47 am
Post by: icecoldbro on December 18, 2010, 01:49:34 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 18, 2010, 02:14:51 am
it might be worth it sometimes to quint one, and give it pulvy's effect
or u can use it on enemy weapons
Post by: pikachufan2164 on December 18, 2010, 08:26:16 am
Fog Shield is a great card, but I don't know if it'd fit well in this deck. Early-game shield is great, but it's pretty much useless late-game. Also, a general rule I've heard is 2 Hourglasses in a deck with less than 35 cards, and 3 or more Hourglasses in a deck more than 35.
I'm also against the idea of having a fog shield. Improved fog is a lifesaver in timebows since quanta flow is really unstable early, but not so much in ccyb variants where you can get expensive shields up quickly with snovas.I'm considering -LS +Fog later on, because sometimes, either the quanta (waiting for Supernovas / Towers get destroyed) or the shields just don't come out early enough to survive against rushes.
As for v1.26 updates, I would consider adding a copy of Silence as an anti-Miracle measure. Not too sure about whether I should add more Towers and Hourglasses to make a 40 card deck, or take something else out yet again to remain at 35 cards.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 18, 2010, 11:07:08 am
Post by: lokiburn4 on December 18, 2010, 12:33:35 pm
Now Shroud on the other hand could be very cool if lets say you wanted to play your pulvy to get rid of something and you know the FG is going to nuke it... or your towers from seisem...and so forth
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 18, 2010, 12:55:40 pm
Post by: wavedash on December 18, 2010, 07:12:11 pm
I like the idea of silence, but I don't think it would work out for an anti-miracle measure, since she uses it while there is still a sliver of green, typically. I suppose you could mindgate and hold a creature or 2, that what I do now, but I'm not sure it's worth the slot.hurr durr use Silence when there is a sliver of green
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 18, 2010, 11:25:13 pm
What?I like the idea of silence, but I don't think it would work out for an anti-miracle measure, since she uses it while there is still a sliver of green, typically. I suppose you could mindgate and hold a creature or 2, that what I do now, but I'm not sure it's worth the slot.hurr durr use Silence when there is a sliver of green
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 23, 2010, 01:40:51 am
Post by: pikachufan2164 on December 27, 2010, 09:01:43 pm
Silence them when you know they'll use Miracle the next turn, then throw out every creature that you've managed to Mindgate from them.What?I like the idea of silence, but I don't think it would work out for an anti-miracle measure, since she uses it while there is still a sliver of green, typically. I suppose you could mindgate and hold a creature or 2, that what I do now, but I'm not sure it's worth the slot.hurr durr use Silence when there is a sliver of green
ok, I have put up 2 videos of this deck owning decay and divine gloryInteresting.
Purify isn't really worth adding to the deck, since Antimatters and SoGs provide enough healing to keep you afloat against poison-wielding FGs, provided that you survive the early game. Permafrost freezehax and Mindgated Congeals handily take care of Scorpio and Elidnis' Puffer Fish. Against all other FGs, +2 HP regen doesn't make much of a difference when you've got 5 SoGs and 2 Antimatters for the same purpose.
Do note that if you go over 35 cards, you WILL need to add a third Hourglass to ensure that you can draw the cards you need when you need them.
Post by: Tuntor on December 30, 2010, 04:40:34 am
Code: [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 71c 77f 7ai 7dq 7dq 7gp 7gp 7k2 7ng 7q5 7t9 80h 80h 80jTunt!
Post by: pikachufan2164 on December 30, 2010, 04:57:17 am
I'll just copypasta my response from the other thread here then ;)
I just realized i hadn't posted my version yet...which is based on a couple of ideas from earlier that I feel have combined nicely to be an almost (!?!) original flavor of CCYB;Interesting.Code: [Select]6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 71c 77f 7ai 7dq 7dq 7gp 7gp 7k2 7ng 7q5 7t9 80h 80h 80j
Main differences:
One Pulvy / One Steal: ok, I admit this happened because I only had the one Pulvy. However, as I always have extra darkness, this has proven to be a great choice. It's useful against everyone...there's always SOMETHING to steal. Additionally, as I'm not running any PAs (see below), I can steal back my Pulvy or shield as needed.
Miracle and Heal: Both here and both late game...often together. My preference has been to use them for EM more often than not, but they are usable for standard survival of course.
No Firefly Queen / No Fractal: it just didn't happen enough that I spammed golems. Instead, I found myself quinting and pumping. So, I nuked my spam option and increased my draw rate...my win rate went up.
One Air Nymph: This is an obvious one. Without the FQ my Air quanta needed a place to go. As Gas gets around shields and the six damage she does is good too, this is a great card.
Three Creatures / Two Quints: Ok, this is an odd one, but I found I almost never used Air Nymph AND two golems...it's either majorly pumped golems or a lot of gas and one golem for good measure. This has allowed be to keep card count tight.
One Mindgate / One Electrum Hourglass: Of the two, I may still drop the hourglass. At only 34 cards, I really don't need it, and suspect I have decked myself more than once because I had it. The Mindgate, however, is insanely useful for a couple of reasons, one, as a Rainbow deck I can play anything I draw which makes most gates useful...if only for the intelligence value...and two, most folks (and FGs) don't defend as well against their own decks.
Things I might change: Swap the Hourglass for a Jade Shield and swap the Steal for a second Pulvy (if i ever get one)...though more and more I like having that steal in there, so it might stay.
I await your judgments.
Tunt!
Some thoughts:
A second Pulvy is a must, since it helps in the Pulvy race against Obliterator by increasing the chances that you draw one before he does, and also against FGs that use Bonds and Bone Walls, since it's rather difficult for the Destroyers alone to get past them. My current variation is experimenting with Steal, and it's a nice utility card and utilizes unused :darkness quanta.
If you're using Miracle and Heal for EM purposes, then you most likely won't need Miracle, as your Shards have enough HP regen to keep you within range of an EM via Heal. I'm still sort of skeptical about using Miracle for early game survival, as I'm still not really convinced that you can get the 12 :light quickly enough.
You need the Hourglasses -- at least 2 for a deck of 35 or fewer cards, in fact. They're important for the early draw power and permanent control bait that they provide (the AI will Explode/Steal your Hourglasses before Pulvy, Permafrost, and Shards).
To avoid decking out, stop drawing once you're set up and have a shield and a few Shards in play, and a damage source. If you're going up against Bone Wall FGs like Morte and Incarnate, you might have a little more trouble -- I've decked out against them before -- but you should be fine since you have an Air Nymph to generate Gases and bypass shields. You can use Air Nymph to bypass the FG's Miracles by waiting until you have enough Gases to win before they Miracle, and then Igniting them all for a large burst of damage.
I would like to experiment with Air Nymph, but unfortunately I haven't spun one from the Oracle yet. :(
Post by: Tuntor on December 30, 2010, 05:22:37 am
Quote from: pikachufan2164
Interesting.I'm certain I agree with you on this. I need to spin one yet. Sadly, I had several a few months ago and sold them thinking I'd never use them. Ah, youth.
Some thoughts:
A second Pulvy is a must, since it helps in the Pulvy race against Obliterator by increasing the chances that you draw one before he does, and also against FGs that use Bonds and Bone Walls, since it's rather difficult for the Destroyers alone to get past them. My current variation is experimenting with Steal, and it's a nice utility card and utilizes unused :darkness quanta.
Quote
If you're using Miracle and Heal for EM purposes, then you most likely won't need Miracle, as your Shards have enough HP regen to keep you within range of an EM via Heal. I'm still sort of skeptical about using Miracle for early game survival, as I'm still not really convinced that you can get the 12 :light quickly enough.Early game, IM is useless. Not happening at all. HOWEVER, in late game it's saved my bacon. The light quanta builds as fast as any other and has no other outlet. That said, it really is only for style points with the EM and my win rate wouldn't go down much without it. Same for the heal. But, I hit them both so often in late game, I can't say for certain they are style only...I just suspect it.
Quote
You need the Hourglasses -- at least 2 for a deck of 35 or fewer cards, in fact. They're important for the early draw power and permanent control bait that they provide (the AI will Explode/Steal your Hourglasses before Pulvy, Permafrost, and Shards).As bait, sure...but the extra draw power is USUALLY not needed. Even when I get it out (and there used to be two in here), I rarely used them more than once ore twice. This runs pretty tight without. I HAVE run it without successfully...but put it back in once more...however with the new Sundial rules, and my certainty I never needed it more than twice, a couple of them might replace it and give me stall power. And interesting thought.
Quote
To avoid decking out, stop drawing once you're set up and have a shield and a few Shards in play, and a damage source. If you're going up against Bone Wall FGs like Morte and Incarnate, you might have a little more trouble -- I've decked out against them before -- but you should be fine since you have an Air Nymph to generate Gases and bypass shields. You can use Air Nymph to bypass the FG's Miracles by waiting until you have enough Gases to win before they Miracle, and then Igniting them all for a large burst of damage.Absolutely correct. I do stop, and those are the ones I deck out against...and yes, this beats miracle in one turn...assuming I have enough time to gin up the gasses...so at least I'm decking out in the right places.
Quote
I would like to experiment with Air Nymph, but unfortunately I haven't spun one from the Oracle yet. :(Ah yes, you do need one!
Thanks for the feedback!!!
Tunt!
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 30, 2010, 01:19:49 pm
Excellent, I shall do the same as this is the more appropriate place for this conversation. Thank you.Quote from: pikachufan2164Interesting.I'm certain I agree with you on this. I need to spin one yet. Sadly, I had several a few months ago and sold them thinking I'd never use them. Ah, youth.
Some thoughts:
A second Pulvy is a must, since it helps in the Pulvy race against Obliterator by increasing the chances that you draw one before he does, and also against FGs that use Bonds and Bone Walls, since it's rather difficult for the Destroyers alone to get past them. My current variation is experimenting with Steal, and it's a nice utility card and utilizes unused :darkness quanta.QuoteIf you're using Miracle and Heal for EM purposes, then you most likely won't need Miracle, as your Shards have enough HP regen to keep you within range of an EM via Heal. I'm still sort of skeptical about using Miracle for early game survival, as I'm still not really convinced that you can get the 12 :light quickly enough.Early game, IM is useless. Not happening at all. HOWEVER, in late game it's saved my bacon. The light quanta builds as fast as any other and has no other outlet. That said, it really is only for style points with the EM and my win rate wouldn't go down much without it. Same for the heal. But, I hit them both so often in late game, I can't say for certain they are style only...I just suspect it.QuoteYou need the Hourglasses -- at least 2 for a deck of 35 or fewer cards, in fact. They're important for the early draw power and permanent control bait that they provide (the AI will Explode/Steal your Hourglasses before Pulvy, Permafrost, and Shards).As bait, sure...but the extra draw power is USUALLY not needed. Even when I get it out (and there used to be two in here), I rarely used them more than once ore twice. This runs pretty tight without. I HAVE run it without successfully...but put it back in once more...however with the new Sundial rules, and my certainty I never needed it more than twice, a couple of them might replace it and give me stall power. And interesting thought.QuoteTo avoid decking out, stop drawing once you're set up and have a shield and a few Shards in play, and a damage source. If you're going up against Bone Wall FGs like Morte and Incarnate, you might have a little more trouble -- I've decked out against them before -- but you should be fine since you have an Air Nymph to generate Gases and bypass shields. You can use Air Nymph to bypass the FG's Miracles by waiting until you have enough Gases to win before they Miracle, and then Igniting them all for a large burst of damage.Absolutely correct. I do stop, and those are the ones I deck out against...and yes, this beats miracle in one turn...assuming I have enough time to gin up the gasses...so at least I'm decking out in the right places.QuoteI would like to experiment with Air Nymph, but unfortunately I haven't spun one from the Oracle yet. :(Ah yes, you do need one!
Thanks for the feedback!!!
Tunt!
Only sell your weapons if you have more than 6 of them...
Post by: Tuntor on December 31, 2010, 08:55:09 pm
Post by: pikachufan2164 on January 02, 2011, 02:54:23 am
Archived the v1.25 information at the bottom of the post.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 02, 2011, 03:14:21 am
I can do some more videos if you like
Post by: pikachufan2164 on January 02, 2011, 03:52:58 am
at the bottom of your post, u said something about possible screen shotsI do have a fairly large collection of winning screenshots saved on my hard drive right now, but I've been a bit lazy about uploading them :P
I can do some more videos if you like
Making more videos is completely up to you. It doesn't really matter to me.
Post by: pikachufan2164 on January 02, 2011, 04:00:38 am
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115613/Chaos_Lord.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115612/Decay.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115611/Destiny.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115610/Divine_Glory_2.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115609/Dream_Catcher.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115608/Elidnis.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115607/Ferox.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd141126/Fire_Queen.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115606/Gemini.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd141070/Hermes.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115605/Incarnate.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115604/Miracle.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115621/Morte.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115620/Neptune.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115619/Obliterator.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115618/Octane.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115617/Osiris.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd141129/Paradox.jpg)
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115616/Rainbow_2.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd141069/Scorpio.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd115615/Seism.jpg)
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on January 02, 2011, 05:00:23 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 02, 2011, 05:09:16 am
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on January 02, 2011, 02:33:15 pm
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 03, 2011, 02:03:35 pm
Code: [Select]
5p0 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 71c 77f 7ak 7dq 7dq 7gp 7q5 7q5 80h 80hActually, I'm trying a version with a Cloak in there, too... useful against some gods.
Post by: silux on January 13, 2011, 10:22:33 pm
However I like rainbows also because they can use all pet oracle gives at full use!^^
Post by: omegareaper7 on January 14, 2011, 06:25:33 am
Post by: pikachufan2164 on January 14, 2011, 07:07:30 am
Now that I look not only Dark Matter but Eternal Phoenix, Hermes, Scorpio, Fire Queen, Graviton, and Paradox. I am guessing for Fire Queen and Paradox you didn't face yet, and the rest could have been lucky losses or didn't face them yet.I haven't gotten to getting a screenshot of wins against Fire Queen and Paradox, but they're fairly easy. The rest, however, not so much....
I'm using this with some little variations:Having only 1 Pulverizer is rather shaky, as it means that you won't be able to deal with pesky permanents and it's going to be harder to win the Pulvy race against Obliterator.Code: [Select]5p0 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 71c 77f 7ak 7dq 7dq 7gp 7q5 7q5 80h 80hActually, I'm trying a version with a Cloak in there, too... useful against some gods.
I'm not really seeing much use for Cloak, when you have Quints for your own creatures, and any FGs with a large amount of permanent control can just destroy your Cloak, and then proceed to destroy your other permanents.
Osiris win was most luck(mind flayer from the oracle...).Osiris isn't too bad once you get a shield out. Jade Shield does a slightly better job than Permafrost, mostly because it doesn't give Osiris a chance to get a 30% damage bonus on creatures Catapulted at you. Also, an early Pulvy is key to destroying their Catapults.
However I like rainbows also because they can use all pet oracle gives at full use!^^
i tried this variant a little while back, i don't like it as much as my current one as it lacks the ability to really tear those bonewalls down, and i found mindgate to be a minute help.Yes, Bone Walls are a problem, but you can remedy the situation by destroying enough charges to have only 1 charge remaining at the end of your turn, then using Pulvy on the last charge so that your Destroyers' damage can go through.
Mindgate is probably the most useful against Elidnis and Scorpio, since you can grab their Congeals and stop their Puffer Fishes for 4 turns. It's also useful for grabbing extra creatures to throw out in a surprise attack that bypasses Miracles.
Post by: 152710 on January 14, 2011, 09:25:27 am
Code: [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 71c 77f 77f 7dq 7dq 7dq 7gp 7gp 7k0 7n3 7q5 7q5 80h 80h 80hwill post stats when I reach 100 games.
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 14, 2011, 12:10:52 pm
Having only 1 Pulverizer is rather shaky, as it means that you won't be able to deal with pesky permanents and it's going to be harder to win the Pulvy race against Obliterator.In fact, Cloak wasn0t of much use. And one Pulverizer is there 'cuz I ain't got another one. :P
I'm not really seeing much use for Cloak, when you have Quints for your own creatures, and any FGs with a large amount of permanent control can just destroy your Cloak, and then proceed to destroy your other permanents.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 14, 2011, 04:19:10 pm
This is what I use now. I use more creatures, because against some gods, I just did not manage to output enough damage before I deck out. It also assures me I can get damage going early and sometimes even race those poison decks.Code: [Select]6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 71c 77f 77f 7dq 7dq 7dq 7gp 7gp 7k0 7n3 7q5 7q5 80h 80h 80h
no queen, and maybe replace mirror shield with jade shields
will post stats when I reach 100 games.
Post by: The Emperor on January 16, 2011, 12:56:08 am
This is what I use now. I use more creatures, because against some gods, I just did not manage to output enough damage before I deck out.I just threw in an eternity to solve that problem.
First use the eternity on one of the opponents creatures with low/none quanta cost, then use your mind gate to retrieve it. Now it's in your hand and you can play and rewind it on every turn.
Especially useful on gods that have bone wall that will stall you forever if your only damage comes from a lonely lava destroyer. It will fail on FG's with strong perm. control, since they will destroy the eternity/gate before you say cheese. But those gods are hard with this deck anyway.
So here's what I'm using.
Code: [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 71c 77f 77f 77i 7ak 7dq 7dq 7gp 7gp 7q5 7q5 7q8 7t9 80h 80h 80j
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on January 16, 2011, 02:06:01 am
This is what I use now. I use more creatures, because against some gods, I just did not manage to output enough damage before I deck out. It also assures me I can get damage going early and sometimes even race those poison decks.That is pretty much CCYB deck:Code: [Select]6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 71c 77f 77f 7dq 7dq 7dq 7gp 7gp 7k0 7n3 7q5 7q5 80h 80h 80h
will post stats when I reach 100 games.
-1 Hourglass
+1 Mirror Shield
-1 Fractal
+1 Destroyer
+1 Quintessence
Post by: thatnewguy on January 16, 2011, 02:11:45 am
Post by: 152710 on January 18, 2011, 08:39:58 am
anyway, finished 100 games:
100/42/58/9
played/won/lost/EM
Win %: 42.00
total cards won from spins: 19
EM%: 21.43
TTW: 17.90
total gold from spins: 1186 :electrum
Av. per game, including won cards: 220.86 :electrum
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on January 29, 2011, 04:46:47 am
Post by: pikachufan2164 on February 16, 2011, 09:56:09 am
Eternity will really put a strain on your :time quanta, which is already being used by Hourglasses. Fractal generally works better than Eternity+Mindgate if you need more creatures for Bone Wall matchups like Incarnate and Morte.This is what I use now. I use more creatures, because against some gods, I just did not manage to output enough damage before I deck out.I just threw in an eternity to solve that problem.
First use the eternity on one of the opponents creatures with low/none quanta cost, then use your mind gate to retrieve it. Now it's in your hand and you can play and rewind it on every turn.
Especially useful on gods that have bone wall that will stall you forever if your only damage comes from a lonely lava destroyer. It will fail on FG's with strong perm. control, since they will destroy the eternity/gate before you say cheese. But those gods are hard with this deck anyway.
So here's what I'm using.Code: [Select]6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u7 6u7 71c 77f 77f 77i 7ak 7dq 7dq 7gp 7gp 7q5 7q5 7q8 7t9 80h 80h 80j
yeah, those decks really are alike, if not more or less the same.If you find yourself not EMing frequently enough (or are too lazy to count damage and plan for an EM with last-hit Pulvy), try adding an Improved Heal.
anyway, finished 100 games:
100/42/58/9
played/won/lost/EM
Win %: 42.00
total cards won from spins: 19
EM%: 21.43
TTW: 17.90
total gold from spins: 1186 :electrum
Av. per game, including won cards: 220.86 :electrum
Post by: EvaRia on February 16, 2011, 01:45:42 pm
6 turns of protection is quite a lot, especially because the AI as of now doesn't actually target Cloaks with any PC ever.
Post by: pikachufan2164 on February 16, 2011, 03:24:52 pm
I would take out the steal for 2 cloaks.That's an interesting idea for the next patch (when Cloak's duration goes up to 3 turns), since the bit of testing I did in trainer (custom deck AI is wonderfully wonderful) showed that the AI won't "waste" permanent control on Cloak and that it will probably start throwing mass-creature control when you have three unquinted creatures out.
6 turns of protection is quite a lot, especially because the AI as of now doesn't actually target Cloaks with any PC ever.
It is possible to rush out Destroyers faster if you have a Cloak in hand, but you'd then be taking a gamble on being able to find a Quint and/or the quanta to play it in time.
I would still try to keep the deck at 35 cards, though. Any more than that, and it will necessitate the use of a third Hourglass.
Bottom line: If you choose to use Cloak in v1.27, go -1 PA, -1 Steal, +2 Cloak.