(1.24) CC? Why bother?

[YeliyaYue]

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I added a chim and a purple nymph... was that a bad idea? the only reason i added chim was to get EM's.. I'm not sure but a dim sheild might work better for EM's?!?

[Gocubbies1212]

heal seems to work best for me  

btw, why 3 quints?  the idea is to fractal your own creature...

[Kuross]

Obviously certain FGs will be able to easily kill ceatures you play. Sometimes all you really need is one lava golem quint'ed up and pumped early in the game to finish later. A common trick I run is Quint a FFQ then bait the Ai into killing my fireflys. Eventually I'll get enough Fire built up so I can play a Lava golem then fractal it immediatly on the same turn finally quint'ing one after I've played them all out. Otherwise if you play a lava golem early vs a FG with any CC, especially the ones with a lot of Rewinds, you run the risk of having to replay the same lava golem over and over again, thereby resetting its stats. Besides, who says you have to fractal your own creatures? Ever play Decay and fractal his devourers to use against him? Is tons of fun

Another issue about quint is that it stops the Ai from TU'ing a highly pumped lava golem off of you. Never fun to have to deal with a copy like that.

Also, if you note the Chimera in the above deck, it's almost imparitive there is a quint handy for him else after playing it one rewind ends a lot of fun you had planned.

@YeliyaYue: I'm curious why you run an unupped FFQ? The upped one helps build the Fire quanta to fractal spam lava golems.

[Mahon]

No Antimatter?  I know the nymph can kind of do the same thing, but it is slower, and only running 1 of means you will get it only half the time.

Antimatter seems to be the one card that is so crucial and usually is what allows me to last long enough to get a shield, or miracle, or none of the above off so I can survive.

I know the chimera is nice for EMing. I am just of the mind that winning the match is more important than winning with a EM. Actually in the deck I posted a few posts ago I stopped trying to force EMs and my win ratio went up about 4%. More wins is more chance at spinning cards (aka more money), and higher score. Granted part of that 4% was from getting better match ups too.

That all being said I wouldn't devote a spot for a card thats soul purpose is to get EMs. I would rather run cards that will help me win more matches.

Unless I am missing something and chimera does help significantly against some FGs. At least besides the Bonewall ones. I don't seem to have much trouble with Bonewall.

[Krahhl]

If you're looking for EM's with that chimera, best add a liquid shadow. Otherwise it doesn't really help.

[Nume]

Chimera also helps against any god with a shield in that it lets you fractal an often more efficient creature than your destroyer and still have its full effectiveness. Such as if you have a bad game against ferox, and you're going to deck out, with a fractal of frogs you can get 35 extra damage out which would only be 21 without the chimera by fractalling his frogs (5 damage x 7 with chimera, 3 x 7 without). Also it makes it easier to time for miracles and such since the ai doesnt expect you to be able to ignore their shield. All of that aside, I think you underestimate the amount of benefit EM's give. You definitely would get more score with a high em rate losing 4 percent more (which I doubt would happen with the deck I use but yeah), and the electrum would still be pretty close.

[Mahon]

I think you are over estimating it. With a miracle most nonEM games will net 59 electrum. With a EM it becomes 120. So basically a profit of 61 electrum. So if you can get more EMs without losing more, no-brainer.

I just did some quick math on my spreadsheet. I multiplied the number of cards I have won by 1100(conservative) and came up with 68,200Electrum. I then multiplied my total wins by .75 (this is to assume that 75% of games would be EM) then multiplied that by 120. This came out to 15,030Electrum. For the sake of arguement and easy math lets say with this scenario Cards are giving me 4 times more Electrum.

According again to my spreadsheet I win a card on average 37% of the time when I win. Again for easy math lets say on average I win a card once every 3 games. So 3 won games equals roughly 1100Electrum. it takes 10 EMs to win 1200Electrum.

So if I am reading this correctly (and I may not be) roughly to make up for losing a single game you need to turn 6 otherwise wins into EMs. Since the wins would otherwise net about 59ish Electrum.

If my math or assumptions are wrong please tell me in a polite way. I am trying to figure out the best way to farm electrum with this deck. Not prove someone wrong. PS all my assumptions and easy math disfavor my point, except the 75% EM rate which I couldn't imagine obtaining.

[Sage880]

If you're looking for EM's with that chimera, best add a liquid shadow. Otherwise it doesn't really help.

It helps by itself. It blocks damage from the turn before you kill the FG so you heal up from all your SOG's.

As an aside, If I don't need them earlier I save my antimatter's and use them on the FG's last creatures to attack (who aren't frozen) and often that's enough to heal me up to 100% and give me the EM. Before I was just playing my antimatters on their biggest creature even if I wasn't in danger of dying.

PS: This is the version of this deck that I prefer:

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[Ryli]

If you're looking for EM's with that chimera, best add a liquid shadow. Otherwise it doesn't really help.

It helps by itself. It blocks damage from the turn before you kill the FG so you heal up from all your SOG's.

Is that really reliable? I haven't tested it myself, so maybe I'm missing the obvious, but what if it dies? You can't rely on having a pulveriser out, and even if it is 5 damage often won't be enough.

[Nume]

I think you are over estimating it. With a miracle most nonEM games will net 59 electrum. With a EM it becomes 120. So basically a profit of 61 electrum. So if you can get more EMs without losing more, no-brainer.

I just did some quick math on my spreadsheet. I multiplied the number of cards I have won by 1100(conservative) and came up with 68,200Electrum. I then multiplied my total wins by .75 (this is to assume that 75% of games would be EM) then multiplied that by 120. This came out to 15,030Electrum. For the sake of arguement and easy math lets say with this scenario Cards are giving me 4 times more Electrum.

According again to my spreadsheet I win a card on average 37% of the time when I win. Again for easy math lets say on average I win a card once every 3 games. So 3 won games equals roughly 1100Electrum. it takes 10 EMs to win 1200Electrum.

So if I am reading this correctly (and I may not be) roughly to make up for losing a single game you need to turn 6 otherwise wins into EMs. Since the wins would otherwise net about 59ish Electrum.

If my math or assumptions are wrong please tell me in a polite way. I am trying to figure out the best way to farm electrum with this deck. Not prove someone wrong. PS all my assumptions and easy math disfavor my point, except the 75% EM rate which I couldn't imagine obtaining.

I said it was probably less electrum if you do indeed lose that much, just that its closer than you might think. The biggest benefit is score. I dont even care that much about farming electrum myself, but at the same time I hate ai3 so I generally use FGs to farm for score too . Also I dont have my deck code with me, but you can look back a few pages if you want to see the version I use. LS has also saved games that would likely be losses otherwise due to using on things like an early physalia against scorpio or dream catchers first BE creature to slow them down and allow me to gain control.

[Krahhl]

If you're looking for EM's with that chimera, best add a liquid shadow. Otherwise it doesn't really help.

It helps by itself. It blocks damage from the turn before you kill the FG so you heal up from all your SOG's.

If you're willing to risk your entire army of creatures by leaving chimera vulnerable for a turn, that's your call. Maybe it does help a lot more often than hurt, but the liquid shadow seems a lot safer. Not to mention its added versatility, as Nume mentioned.

Though personally, with just a bit of planning in the last few turns, I find that there's a good chance of being able to calculate damage so that Pulverizer gets the final hit.


As a side comment, there's a good way for those with a purple nymph to bypass miracle-using gods.

If you have, for example, a 29|23 and a 19|13 lava destroyer along with a purple nymph, Miracle has 60 health, you would only be able to get 51 damage, allowing him to cast miracle and risking deck-out. To get around this, antimatter the destroyer with 19 attack so you deal a net of 13 damage, leaving Miracle at 47 health. Since you have a calculated damage output of 32, he won't cast miracle. Then just antimatter the lava destroyer again to get back to 51 damage, scoring the kill.

[Nume]

Heh I've done something similar for the same cause, though in my case I had no nymph and only 1 AM. I just used it on one of the destroyers I had fractal'd, and it was enough for him to not use miracle. I was then able to play another 2 destroyers from my hand (I had thought I'd have enough damage to kill him that turn but realized I wouldnt after playing just a couple, so I had enough quanta the next turn to play more) and grow the rest, which was enough to finish him off .
Edit: Home now. Here is the deck I use if anyone cares

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