(1.24) CC? Why bother?

[TheOwner]

6 Turns unupped, 7 Turns upped

[LootPinata]

Shouldn't you be comparing the total amount of damage done by each? Assuming you can buff each one every round, the Golem starts at 5 (or 7) and increases by 2, while the Steam Machine starts at 0 and increases by 4 the first time, then effectively 3 each round afterwards (because the damage is done before the counter is removed, so +4, dmg, -1, +4, dmg, -1, etc.).

Observe (turn 0 is when you play the card):

Turn	SM	Dmg.	LG	Dmg.	LD	Dmg.
0	0|8	0	5|1	5	7|1	7
1	4|8	4	7|3	12	9|3	16
2	7|8	11	9|5	21	11|5	27
3	10|8	21	11|7	32	13|7	40
4	13|8	34	13|9	45	15|9	55
5	16|8	50	15|11	60	17|11	72
6	19|8	69	17|13	77	19|13	91

Look carefully: the gap between the Steam Machine and the Lava Golem goes +5, +8, +10, +11, +11, +10, +8, and so on. So eventually, the Steam Machine will have done more total damage than the Golem. The gap between the Steam Machine and the Lava Destroyer goes +7, +12, +16, +19, +21, +22, +22, and follows the same pattern. If you chart these out, you'll find that the Steam Machine eventually does total more damage than both, but by the time it does, the game will have ended long ago. You're better off with the Lava Golem/Destroyer either way.

[TheOwner]

Shouldn't you be comparing the total amount of damage done by each? Assuming you can buff each one every round, the Golem starts at 5 (or 7) and increases by 2, while the Steam Machine starts at 0 and increases by 4 the first time, then effectively 3 each round afterwards (because the damage is done before the counter is removed, so +4, dmg, -1, +4, dmg, -1, etc.).

Observe (turn 0 is when you play the card):

Turn	SM	Dmg.	LG	Dmg.	LD	Dmg.
0	0|8	0	5|1	5	7|1	7
1	4|8	4	7|3	12	9|3	16
2	7|8	11	9|5	21	11|5	27
3	10|8	21	11|7	32	13|7	40
4	13|8	34	13|9	45	15|9	55
5	16|8	50	15|11	60	17|11	72
6	19|8	69	17|13	77	19|13	91

Look carefully: the gap between the Steam Machine and the Lava Golem goes +5, +8, +10, +11, +11, +10, +8, and so on. So eventually, the Steam Machine will have done more total damage than the Golem. The gap between the Steam Machine and the Lava Destroyer goes +7, +12, +16, +19, +21, +22, +22, and follows the same pattern. If you chart these out, you'll find that the Steam Machine eventually does total more damage than both, but by the time it does, the game will have ended long ago. You're better off with the Lava Golem/Destroyer either way.

Shame on you for bad calculations.  The Steam Machine does damage before losing the charge.

[LootPinata]

Yes, that's what I calculated.

Turn 0: Play card, no charges, 0 damage
Turn 1: Buff to 4|8, deal damage, remove charge. SM is now 3|8, 4 damage dealt.
Turn 2: Buff to 7|8, deal damage, remove charge. SM is now 6|8, 11 damage dealt.
Turn 3: Buff to 10|8, deal damage, remove charge. SM is now 9|8, 21 damage dealt.

Etc...

[TheOwner]

Yes, that's what I calculated.

Turn 0: Play card, no charges, 0 damage
Turn 1: Buff to 4|8, deal damage, remove charge. SM is now 3|8, 4 damage dealt.
Turn 2: Buff to 7|8, deal damage, remove charge. SM is now 6|8, 11 damage dealt.
Turn 3: Buff to 10|8, deal damage, remove charge. SM is now 9|8, 21 damage dealt.

Etc...

Shame on me for somehow misreading the numbers even though I was like 5 classes above everyone my age...

[LootPinata]

If I get bored I may make an actual graph (which would be nice because it could be expanded to calculate total damage for any buff-able creature).

[kobisjeruk]

the MAJOR point of lava destroyer vs steam machine is that steam machine uses 5 which is crucial and that steam machine takes few turn to overtake the golem in damage buildup which can mean the difference

exactly how many FGs with CC that you can leave SM unprotected just because it has a big ass? not many
in fact, all those FGs has some way to deal with critters no matter how big they are so the point is irrelevant; you do not want to leave your damage dealer unprotected unless you're specifically facing FGs without any CCs

Shame on me for somehow misreading the numbers even though I was like 5 classes above everyone my age...

no offense but are you autistic?

[wavedash]

Steam Machine is still vulnerable to Congeal (and Shockwave) and Rewind. In fact, being stunned is worse for a Steam Machine than a Destroyer since the former loses steam while the latter doesn't.

no offense but are you autistic?

Nah, he's just bragging and probably lying.

[TheOwner]

Steam Machine is still vulnerable to Congeal (and Shockwave) and Rewind. In fact, being stunned is worse for a Steam Machine than a Destroyer since the former loses steam while the latter doesn't.

no offense but are you autistic?

Nah, he's just bragging and probably lying.

I am not lying, and I wasn't intentionally bragging.  I am really far ahead of everyone in math, but I make stupid mistakes every now and then, especially when I'm not twirling a pencil (I don't write out my work I fidget and do it in my head).  *slapping sound* how dare you call me autistic.

I still think Steam Machine doesn't work in this deck

[catalyzeme]

Lol just got a screenshot which showed the usefulness of liquid shadow... notice that it was taken on Seism's turn, and he would have killed me that turn, but the liquid shadow on his AM'd dragon killed him .
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd76576/Seism_Liquid_Shadow.bmp) (http://imageplay.net/)

Nume, thanks for giving it a shot with Liquid Shadow. How did it work out, other than that game? Obviously it is awesome in certain situations, I just don't know if it would be useful or get in the way more often. I mean, even if you are doing it to like, a 12/5 dragon, that's 60 points of damage you can do to the enemy before it dies. That's pretty substantial. But at the same time, get it before Anti-matter and it's useless for a while. Against gods like Miracle, Ferox, and *especially* Divine Glory, I wouldn't mind doing it to my own Lava Destroyer in a pinch, either. Especially since against those gods, it's a pretty easy EM if you've just got one Lava Destroyer that can heal you 20+ life on his attack (you get the full healing amount even if it does fewer damage, correct?).

[kobisjeruk]

correct, vampirism heals you for the same amount of damage the creature dealt
you can check how much a creature deals damage by that floating +/- numbers when you end your turn

btw i just got my first win vs Hermes and it feels awesome

even awesomer because i didnt skip him like i usually do and i used a heal a couple of turns before because i feel like hes going to bolt me to death and he did (it wouldve ended if i didnt cast heal that turn)

sometimes this deck just run on empty but times like this...feels better than playing any other deck imo

[Nume]

Lol just got a screenshot which showed the usefulness of liquid shadow... notice that it was taken on Seism's turn, and he would have killed me that turn, but the liquid shadow on his AM'd dragon killed him .
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd76576/Seism_Liquid_Shadow.bmp) (http://imageplay.net/)

Nume, thanks for giving it a shot with Liquid Shadow. How did it work out, other than that game? Obviously it is awesome in certain situations, I just don't know if it would be useful or get in the way more often. I mean, even if you are doing it to like, a 12/5 dragon, that's 60 points of damage you can do to the enemy before it dies. That's pretty substantial. But at the same time, get it before Anti-matter and it's useless for a while. Against gods like Miracle, Ferox, and *especially* Divine Glory, I wouldn't mind doing it to my own Lava Destroyer in a pinch, either. Especially since against those gods, it's a pretty easy EM if you've just got one Lava Destroyer that can heal you 20+ life on his attack (you get the full healing amount even if it does fewer damage, correct?).

I only had time for about 6-7 games, but it seemed to work pretty effectively. I replaced heal with it, because I really wasnt finding it that important anyways as I've gotten pretty good at calculating damage, and yeah I never really had a situation where I drew it and regretted having it there. It was very useful against most FGs as almost all have at least one high att/hp creature which is perfect for it. Also, it can lead to em's too if its on a high creature, because if you dont quite have enough damage to kill the fg, it might kill it while healing you the hp you're missing. Had that happen twice actually .
Edit: Also if you think about it, its basically like playing a 10-15 attack creature with momentum for 3 darkness... sounds like a pretty good deal to me .