Elements PvP Tournament - Suggestions and Feedback

[scauduro221095]

I like Gorthos idea, most of it anyway.

Why not make a quiz on tourney rules instead, and make everyone who wants to play the tourney take the quiz (retakes allowed until they pass - and once you take it you don't have to re-take it for subsequent tourneys).

Should be a weekly quiz, 10 questions, 5 based on the basic rules, 5 based on the tourney specific rules.
Player should get at least 8/10 to be able to participate.
3 attempts only, answers are not shown after answering when making the quiz (it is an option)
Questions should be really easy and obvious, so that if anyone fails to make the 8/10 clearly wasn't paying attention or didn't read the rules.

This would mean tourney ideas would have to be up early, otherwise anyone can participate, also there is a quiz section so this idea is very easy to implement.  This will show that you know the rules and are ready to play.

Here is an example, only 7 questions though.
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=SMFQuiz;sa=categories;id_quiz=151# (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=SMFQuiz;sa=categories;id_quiz=151#)

The problem with this idea is that while we try to make sure that we have players who know the rules we arent just trying to stop newbs from having fun. Instead we are trying to stop people that make multiple accounts to try to win through a tournament. We are trying to stop CHEATERS. This isnt fool proof but then nothing really is and for now it is the best we can do. So please elements community please understand why we are putting this rule in and really if your a newb and you are serious about a tourney then it takes 10 - 15 minutes to get those posts by helping the community.

[Mithcairion]

For myself, I know that I haven't been able to participate in tournaments in quite some time due to the current rotating schedule, which is a shame for me because tournaments are what ended up getting me involved in the community in the first place.  While I understand that the logistics would be more difficult to manage for those in positions of authority, I don't see the problem with getting people who would be able to accommodate a different schedule being brought in.  Right now the biggest arguments I see are that we don't have people to fit different times and that we have more activity in tournaments than ever before.  Well, my counter points are this:  Why would we have accommodated anything other than what is currently the system?  Solution to that:  Make inquiries as to the viability of changing the current system.  Maybe don't expand to 12 hour rotations, but maybe inquire as to whether or not there are any prospective Tournament Organizers who would be interested in hosting at other times, specifically a 6 hour rotating schedule.  Even expanding the current schedule from 3 hours rotating to 6 hours rotating would open up a lot more possibilities for people.  As for the current system having the most activity, well, what's to say that another one wouldn't yield similar results? 

Saying that this is the way it is done because this is the way it is done is the poorest excuse possible for justifying why something is done.  No matter the scenario the result will be the same:  Interest will wane, and the circling of the drain will begin.  While such a thing may be inevitable, it would be sad to see due to such a poor reason.

[Higurashi]

This topic will soon be merged to Tournament Feedback topic. Discussion is fine, but we don't really need a poll because we already had one and we are aware of the activity peak hours.

Key thing to understand here is that no matter which times we choose, someone will have a problem with it. With 12 hours between tournaments, and the 3 hour window, I'd say we have it pretty well covered. Like Higurashi said, increasing the window more than that, would make organizing a nightmare because we would be often dependent on having that one organizer be online, or we would have no organizer at all. So unless we hire 20 TO's, or one TO that is online 24/7, there's not much we can do.

Those of us on the east coast are not asking that our needs are specifically catered to, we're asking that others' needs are not specifically catered to and that people in all time zones are given a fair and equal chance if there can be some movement to organize enough reliable TO staffing.  It wouldn't be a big deal, except when the prizes are something as rare and valuable as nymphs and marks.  There are so few opportunities for players who are active and love the game to earn such a thing, it is a shame to see the opportunity slanted towards a specific demographic.

Haha, I used 20 TO's as a response too.
As I've responded before, we do have the most fair coverage right now that we can achieve with our limited resources. There was zero preference in mind when we chose the current schedule; I personally thought only of maximum global coverage.
We get plenty of East coast players for two reasons: they can adapt and stay up for Eastern (not something I expect anyone to do), and Western is in the afternoon for them. Pure luxury compared to some people's location.

If we wanted to have a complete rotation schedule around the clock, we'd need more TO's than we've ever been able to find. We would have more TO's right now if I could do magic, but we've had to hire less than we wanted to because of not enough suitable applications. What determines suitability? Personality, experience and motivation. We don't even get enough applications, period.

We have to try to keep tourneys high-quality because they reflect on the game itself and the developer, and changing things around now would ruin numerous tourney executions. While I would like to try a fully rotating schedule out, this is not a project you can "try out", because it requires more resources than we've ever managed to find.

[MatrimKK]

Higs, don't take this the wrong way (you are one of my favorite TO's with your no nonsense attitude and sassy typing skills, in short I never wonder how fast or fairly a decision will be made.)  I feel Western is at a poor time for its target of the "Western Hemisphere," and it's rather obvious Eastern has a poor turn out (it's mostly filled with silly Murricans who have trouble sleeping.)  Quite simply in the middle of the afternoon is hard for the bulk and fringe of the Western Elements the Game Demographic.  I realize that it's convenient for you to host (even though you live in the eastern hemisphere) since it's a bit more in your evening time.  This would also be very beneficial to many of us silly Murricans!  On Saturday afternoons I think many of this demographic are working their weekend jobs if they are students (which I believe a large portion of Western Elements the Game players are,) or this is the time that they are likely spending with their families if they are young students or grind the 9-5 Monday through Friday.  I know Western is by far currently the biggest turn out we have but I feel it could be larger and largely more convenient as well. 

I won't try and suggest anything for Eastern as I don't live in that hemisphere. 

Also if you are looking for TO's as long as you don't mind oddballs I currently have more time and waking hours than are good for me

[Higurashi]

Yeah, the names may be a bit inaccurate now. Regardless, you're talking about favouritism for largely populated areas, which is how we used to set the times for tournaments. We changed to achieve more global fairness. Elemints is a hobby, and if an American East coaster wants to make time for it during the afternoon, they may.

We used the poll for what times are best for tournaments when changing the times, and as such we have actually managed to have a better time for the "bulk and fringe" of the community, as you put it. This is reflected in more participants in total. Part of that can be explained with a growing community, so a better sign is all the new players we've had join in without a noticeable reduction in the regulars. Some are very vocal, but the difference has been minute.

[kirchj33]

Its clear that the Western Tourney is having success in its scheduled timeslot.  Instead of drastic changes, I propose to change the name of Western to Eastern, and then unbind the 12 hour staggering.  Meaning, instead of 12 hours apart, they could be somewhere between 15-17 hours apart.  This would mean for the East Coasters, instead of 2, 3, or 4am, they would fall somewhere between 9pm-1am depending on whether they were staggered by 15, 16, or 17 hours.  West Coasters are -3 hours so it should work nicely for them as well.  This should help both those who like to stay up later, and give some opportunities to people who have a bedtime.  Then by flipping the names we have a simple solution.  I think this would better accommodate those crazy egotistical Murricans.  Everybody wins.

[ffun]

Oh, my... I wanted to quote all the part I agree with in the last posts from Matrim and kirchj33, but I would end up quoting everything.

Even though Western tournaments are during my Saturday afternoons, this is exactly the time I'll be with my family, going out with them and giving them attention after working the whole week. At late evenings I have much more free time to spend with Elements, so Eastern turns out to be the time I choose to participate, although it's not quite convenient (you end up making all kinds of silly mistakes during matches at 4.00 am ). The alternative suggested by kirchj would let me participate much, much more often (and also get some more sleep when I do decide to participate!).

Of course, I'm only one player in the midst of thousands, and I don't think rules should revolve around my choices on how to spend my free time, but if these changes would also cater the needs of a significant player base, I would be overjoyed if they took place!

[~Napalm]

Its clear that the Western Tourney is having success in its scheduled timeslot.  Instead of drastic changes, I propose to change the name of Western to Eastern, and then unbind the 12 hour staggering.  Meaning, instead of 12 hours apart, they could be somewhere between 15-17 hours apart.  This would mean for the East Coasters, instead of 2, 3, or 4am, they would fall somewhere between 9pm-1am depending on whether they were staggered by 15, 16, or 17 hours.  West Coasters are -3 hours so it should work nicely for them as well.  This should help both those who like to stay up later, and give some opportunities to people who have a bedtime.  Then by flipping the names we have a simple solution.  I think this would better accommodate those crazy egotistical Murricans.  Everybody wins.

+1

[MatrimKK]

So with a growing community why would we not hold a new poll? 
At least to shut kirch up  
Because something was once true at a single point in history does not make it currently true. 
Also I have never seen this old poll so I'm talking out my blow hole at this point.  What time of year was this poll held, and who (demographically speaking) voted on it?  What options were available?
I suggest two new polls:  One for those in the eastern hemisphere asking them what the ideal or most convenient time would be for them in GMT, with of course an option of idc.  And a mirror for western. 
Sorry I'm not serious enough to make better points and counter points but this is only for fun
And by no means am I suggesting a change in the system, the current one currently serves me just fine (and I receive much less competition this way.)  I'm merely trying to point out that this is by assumption not the best timing for those in the western hemisphere and the timing for eastern (as shown by lack of particpants) is just badly timed. 
I think tournaments are by far a great place to learn the game (as well as leagues) and a great reason to find interest in the game after ai becomes dull. 
Maybe this is for the best as most of the problems had in the past are likely people who fall into some of the demographics I described earlier and this keeps cheating and no knowledge of the rules to a minimum.  Also I can only guess at the difficulties a TO may encounter where tournaments often exceed the current sizes. 

As response to kirch and squiggles:  Eastern and Western do not refer to coasts you silly Murricans.  As far as hemispheres go making a 12 hour difference makes the most sense unless you are to consider more populated areas hold a larger % of the Elements the Game players and base times of the most populated areas of the two hemispheres.  These 2 areas (in my best guess without any knowledge to back it) are Murrica and Europe.  Without some sort of poll for those that do or would like to participate in tournaments these are simply best guesses.  You could possibly take some info gathered from the forum user's profiles but many may not put this info or truthful info.  Also not every person with a forum account participates in tournaments, so I would question how many actual do. 

Aside from all the arguing and ignoring others points and everyone repeating the same thing over and over and over and over
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and overagain.  I think it would be at the least interesting to do a census type survey of the elementals forum community ranging from a/s/l (being candid and only released as a study not individual results) to what sections of the forums they like best (CIA, PvP Events, etc.) how much time they spent and when they are likely to spend it.  Whether or not this yields any useful information and how many are actually willing to participate, I for one would be interested in the results. 

[~Napalm]

I believe I speak for us both when I say that kirch and I NEVER thought East and West meant the Coasts of the US of A. If that were the case, Tourneys would be 3 hours appart, amiright? And besides. We're not THAT self centered... sheesh.

[MatrimKK]

bad use of subterfuge silly Murricans!!!

joking

I know I was simply making things clear in my own silly way, since I saw what could be misinterpreted in your posts.

[kirchj33]

Its a logical assumption to say that the highest populations of Elemints players comes from America and Europe.  A centrally located timezone in America (Central) and a centrally located country in Europe (Italy for example) are 7 hours apart.  This is only logical information presented and stated to note that a 12 hour gap is not optimal.  Optimal times would be ones where either both places could have a primetime tournament, or times where both locations could have access to tourneys during waking hours.

Also, you aren't fooling me with this non-biased peaceful act Matrim  8)