Elements PvP Tournament - Suggestions and Feedback

[blarp]

Number 3 of Jen-i's post.

+What I posted in rules thread, the TO's can't show the deck code sent to them to the opponent while the tournament is going on without messing everything up. So doesn't really help. I don't think you should ever lose 2 games of a match because you used an illegal deck unintentionally. Hard to make that work though.

[Dm]

I also thought up of another something that I will not edit into my other post.

Let us assume that the Tournament Organizer himself is participating in the tournament. I am not saying that the Tournament Organizer is cheating or anything, but, a completely different thing.

TO is in the quarter finals (Not that hard to do with the low amount of people in tournaments these days.).

TO won his match, checked his (?) and his opponent deck.
The player B in the same blockside of his brackets won his tournament.

Player B will fight TO in Semi-finals.

Is it fair to make Player B send his decks to TO before they fight?

If Player B used an illegal deck against player C ( The one that lost before TO and player B fought), that is, again, unfair.

If player B sends his deck to the TO before they fight, it is common sense to assume the TO is going to tweak his deck so that he does not lose. Not changing your deck and going with the losing one would be an impractical option in this case; therefore giving TO's an unfair advantage.

This means that, as to avoid even further disruption by these rules, the TO must not participate in the tournament.

This rule is really not needed and has several exploiting points. It seems, I.M.O, to be a poorly handled rule when in practical action and easily avoidable either way. There is no way to know if someone is unintentional or not. I would also like to add that, if a player used an illegal deck the whole tournament ( blarp... ) to a point that he won, it is obvious that it is a disruption of the tournament as several people will be angry they lost to an illegal deck and don't have a way back. I'm still surprised blarp received his 2nd place code and, worse, didn't even get a ban from the next week tournament from "cheating" (unintentionally) and disruption... which are also stated in the rules -- Much more clearly than our current 3.7 rule.

[blarp]

Can an active TO for a tournament play in that event? I don't think it's ever fair for people to pm that TO decks, even if they're not going to play him. If I was sent everyones decks before the event even if I had no idea whose was whose, that'd certainly influence how I built my decks and inspire certain decks that I hadn't thought of.

This is the problem I have with majofa receiving all of the WC decks that people used.

[Onizuka]

Well, obviously with the new rule in place currently a person TOing will not be playing. (assuming).

And it is a completely different situation over WC (with the TO playing in the same pool as the people they are collecting decks from).

And an illegal deck should be 100% a lost match. It is a waste of time for the other player and the organizer, not to mention an insult to the rules, organizers, and other players that you couldn't be bothered to make sure your deck was legal.

[dragonsdemesne]

i guess you guys are missing the point here... this rule is, obvious, a rule stated for situations like last tourney, where blarp goes through the tourney with the same illegal deck and NONE of his opponents saw it...

This is true, and while I can't possibly justify using an illegal deck for the entire tourney, it is very hard for me to feel sorry for blarp's opponents, who should have immediately noticed the deck was illegal as soon as he played the first recluse with an aether mark.  He could not have won any games with that deck without revealing its illegality.

I'm also worried about the length of time it might take for TOs to do all this, especially in the early rounds.  TOs often aren't playing in the tourney anyway, so I'm not worried about that part, but they might get bogged down by all the deckchecking.

[Vineroz]

Spielkind got the point there.

TOs are always responsible to discover illegal decks, however there was only a vague guideline on this. This new rule will help TOs to find out unintentional illegal decks in a more systematic way.

For the comments on intentional cheating, yes this rule cannot tackle this problem very well, but it has been like that anyway. The only way to find out about this is unfortunately upon the players. However this was not a major problem that we are facing recently.

I believe the deck check process will not take too much time, unless there are like ~10 games finishing at the same time, then some people might have to wait a bit.

Jen-i's 3rd point is interesting. Again under honor system, if you found out your opponent is using an illegal deck for the first game, please play fair and inform your opponent.

Under the new rules, a TO who is hosting the tournament will not be able to participate in it.

At last I would like to point out one thing: It is a player's responsibility to make legal decks. If a player is found using illegal deck, they must bear the consequences. Therefore I advice players who speedbuild at 3AM to remember this point.

[Dm]

"If a player is found using illegal deck, they must bear the consequences."

Seeing the last tournament, I'd say them consequences are pretty light...

Just saying.

Anyway, it is sad indeed a TO can no longer participate in the tournaments that he hosts. Sad indeed.

But that isn't an explicit rule. A TO can still join if he wants to in a tournament. Just would make a few players suspicious...

Oh well.

[Vineroz]

"If a player is found using illegal deck, they must bear the consequences."

Seeing the last tournament, I'd say them consequences are pretty light...

Just saying.

Anyway, it is sad indeed a TO can no longer participate in the tournaments that he hosts. Sad indeed.

But that isn't an explicit rule. A TO can still join if he wants to in a tournament. Just would make a few players suspicious...

Oh well.

We look into the future by learning from the past.

And I think if a TO think he can "still join a tournament if he wants" then obviously the Council had made a wrong decision.

[Dm]

Whether the council made or did not make a wrong decision wouldn't be the point, as a TO can be tempted to play a Tournament. Tournament Organizers are nothing but Members that control Tournaments, after all; and like all Members, to want to participate is not forbidden.

As for "We learn from the past.." there's no past here, really. There is a rule that clearly says "Disruption" or "cheating" equals an "indefinite ban" or, in another Rule, "will be banned from the next week's tournament."

One thing is learning from the past to avoid the repeated in the future, such as the new rule. But that, that was ignoring the stated rule as a whole.

[RootRanger]

Good posts Dm, keep it up.

[bombzero]

The prizes should be greater

[Calindu]

The prizes should be greater

The prizes are high enough already, at least for finalists since you get a nymph(not grindable) or a mark(rarest card).