Elements PvP Tournament - Suggestions and Feedback

[Sir Valimont]

Just the poll wording that's lacking.

I'm inclined to agree ... I think I should re-tool the poll, or add one, asking whether people think players who are known to desync a lot should be treated differently in PvP than others, and to what extent.

[Scaredgirl]

This is a case of wanting something you cannot have. Everyone wants a "fair" rule system that deals with desyncs but the problem is that there isn't any. There's no way of knowing who/what initiated the desync, so any kind of forcing to forfeit is out of the question.

As for cheating, yes, it's of course possible, but doing so and getting caught will result in a permanent ban from all PvP events.


Also, all tournament feedback should be posted in the Tournament Feedback (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,7055.108.html) topic, which is where I am merging this topic very soon.

[Sir Valimont]

Something needs to be done about desyncing. Well, assuming these tournaments are meant to be fair anyway.

Perhaps more to the point, tournament organizers need to recognize the legitimate concerns that desyncing enables cheating rather than resorting to responses like the one given in the post above.

[Sir Valimont]

There's no way of knowing who/what initiated the desync, so any kind of forcing to forfeit is out of the question.

I don't really know what to say except that I find the continued refusal to see the situation clearly ... well, shocking, frankly.

For a community that asks for feedback, it's amazing to me that simple requests for fairness are summarily dismissed as "things you just can't have" or some such. It's not that big a request that something be done about the TWO or THREE players in a tournament who make the entire thing take twice as long and who screw up all of their matches because they have to be replayed six times.

Fact 1: Certain players are involved in matches that desync constantly.

Fact 2: Most players are NEVER involved in a match that desyncs UNLESS they are playing against someone in group 1.

Fact 3: Whether or not you can tell what caused a desync in a given instance, it remains true that the problem is somehow linked to certain players' connections.

Fact 4: It is NOT FAIR to allow players who desync to replay games carte-blanche. It enables them to cheat. Whether they cheat or not is irrelevant.

If you disagree with any of the above facts, you are wrong. And I'd be happy to explain to you why you're wrong if you'd like a discussion on the topic.

[ratchetspyro94]

Something needs to be done about desyncing. Well, assuming these tournaments are meant to be fair anyway.

Perhaps more to the point, tournament organizers need to recognize the legitimate concerns that desyncing enables cheating rather than resorting to responses like the one given in the post above.

Ya... how does that help cheating. -_- makes no sense. all you have to do is pvp them again untill no desynch. Besides desynch can be dealed with the TO work hard enough in Tourneys.

[kobisjeruk]

you have been playing the game for a long time, i get that but exactly how many tournaments/events have you participated in to base your experience on? because i've been in a lot of tourney (ever since i first started, fate egg tourney) and desync, like you said the first time, is caused by a lot of things

There are many ways desyncs can happen.

but then you downright pinpoint desync to and i quote "Certain players are involved in matches that desync constantly." which mean you basically accuse them to cause desync i.e. cheating
IF you have solid proof, this is not the way to present it
you're just shrouding your accusal in a discussion about fairness when the truth is, you're just upset because somebody desync while you got a good hand and ended with a bad hand and thus cost you the game (i'm pretty sure that is an example based on your own experience)
higurashi might've not meant it but i will say this, butthurt much?

keep participating in tourneys some more and you'll have more experience and come to terms with it (like everyone else have). desync = replay is the fairest deal we got now. sure its not fair if you started with a good hand but was dealt with a bad hand after a replay now and then but you cant blame it on desync, its all RNG
cheaters will cheat, that is true but they wont get away with it forever (if you use the proper channel to report them)

tl;dr version: desync is the BIGGEST problem in PvP, true but suck it up and re-play is the best way to deal with it for now

[Sir Valimont]

Something needs to be done about desyncing. Well, assuming these tournaments are meant to be fair anyway.

Perhaps more to the point, tournament organizers need to recognize the legitimate concerns that desyncing enables cheating rather than resorting to responses like the one given in the post above.

Ya... how does that help cheating. -_- makes no sense. all you have to do is pvp them again untill no desynch. Besides desynch can be dealed with the TO work hard enough in Tourneys.

It's not that complicated ... a person wants to restart the game because he's losing (or has a bad draw or whatever) so he causes a desync.

[Sir Valimont]

but then you downright pinpoint desync to and i quote "Certain players are involved in matches that desync constantly." which mean you basically accuse them to cause desync i.e. cheating

I will explain, AGAIN, what I said. I did not accuse ANYONE of cheating.

If someone has a poor connection or their computer setup is somehow screwy so that it doesn't communicate properly with the Flash app, that can cause a desync. It probably has NOTHING to do with the player wanting it to happen, or trying to cheat, or whatever.

The POINT is that this is a loophole in the system through which people CAN cheat. It's like I'm telling you that you have a store and your back door is unlocked. And you're constantly arguing with me about whether someone has broken into the store. Well I DON'T CARE if someone has or hasn't broken into the store. I'm telling you to close the stupid window before someone does. That is IF they haven't already.

[kobisjeruk]

I'm telling you to close the stupid window before someone does.

using metaphor now are we?
well in this case, you're blaming zanz for that stupid window being open / backdoor being unlocked (metaphor for loophole occurring because i dont understand how players connection is supposed to be either the backdoor or window of the shop = game)

see, this is why we dont use metaphor and IF you have a problem, you need to go to the proper channel and vent there instead of trying to start something with a pretense of discussion...you sly fox

[Sir Valimont]

I'm telling you to close the stupid window before someone does.

using metaphor now are we?
well in this case, you're blaming zanz for that stupid window being open / backdoor being unlocked (metaphor for loophole occurring because i dont understand how players connection is supposed to be either the backdoor or window of the shop = game)

see, this is why we dont use metaphor and IF you have a problem, you need to go to the proper channel and vent there instead of trying to start something with a pretense of discussion...you sly fox

Okay metaphors are too complicated for you.

Disagree with either of both of the following if you like:

1) Desyncing, if triggered intentionally, can be used to cheat in PvP tournaments.

2) It is possible to trigger a desync intentionally.

[kobisjeruk]

1) Desyncing, if triggered intentionally, can be used to cheat in PvP tournaments.

2) It is possible to trigger a desync intentionally.

1) true
2) i dont know personally, but it is possible so true

BUT we already have a system to catch cheaters so this isnt new

from my own experience playing PvP,
- if somebody desync a lot during the course of the tourney, TO will observe their match to see if its intentional
- if it happens under certain circumstances (player B just about to win), a screenshot proof is needed and should be presented to address desync (which is why zanz added the desync warning in the latest patch, which i have yet to see in action myself)

i'm not a staff and i have no way of knowing how cheaters are caught (and whatever it is, it should be kept from the public for obvious reason) but i do know they do have ways to figure it out

[Sir Valimont]

1) Desyncing, if triggered intentionally, can be used to cheat in PvP tournaments.

2) It is possible to trigger a desync intentionally.

1) true
2) i dont know personally, but it is possible so true

BUT we already have a system to catch cheaters so this isnt new

from my own experience playing PvP,
- if somebody desync a lot during the course of the tourney, TO will observe their match to see if its intentional
- if it happens under certain circumstances (player B just about to win), a screenshot proof is needed and should be presented to address desync (which is why zanz added the desync warning in the latest patch, which i have yet to see in action myself)

i'm not a staff and i have no way of knowing how cheaters are caught (and whatever it is, it should be kept from the public for obvious reason) but i do know they do have ways to figure it out

Okay. So you agree with me.

Because 1) and 2) are both true, logic (and good game design) dictate that tournament rules should be improved so that cheating is easier to detect and/or not possible at all. That is all I am saying.