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Offline Zyardran

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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1303372#msg1303372
« Reply #768 on: October 13, 2020, 07:49:39 pm »
Start out with 1 element of your choice, and can only use monos.
For each player you beat, add their element to your arsenal (defeated players may keep their elements)
If you beat an opponent with the same element as you, roll 1dx for a random one (x=12-the elements you already have)
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Offline Naii_the_Baf

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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1303373#msg1303373
« Reply #769 on: October 13, 2020, 08:06:12 pm »
Start out with 1 element of your choice, and can only use monos.
For each player you beat, add their element to your arsenal (defeated players may keep their elements)
If you beat an opponent with the same element as you, roll 1dx for a random one (x=12-the elements you already have)

Games after the first can quickly become unfair due to a difference in options; basically, if you lose you'll keep losing.
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Offline J617

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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1304547#msg1304547
« Reply #770 on: December 29, 2020, 06:20:40 am »

(I am posting this here now so that there is more time for comments.)

This is the possible Underdog Tournament (as it is currently written): 

Spoiler for Hidden:
The Underdog Tourney: 

*To understand the following rules, rares means ALL rares, whether they be normal rares or even ultra rares.  It doesn't matter whether we're talking shards, weapons, nymphs, Miracle, Pharaoh, Arctic Squid, marks, or even extreme rares such as Holy Cow.  However, keep in mind that the following rules are each for the listed elements in that particular rule; different rules will apply for different elements.

1.  All regular purchasable Other cards are allowed, including Relics.

2.  Because both Earth and Water have never placed 1st or 2nd in War, ALL cards are allowed except:  shards.

3.  Because Gravity, Light, and Time have never won War, ALL cards are allowed except:  ALL rares.

4.  Because Death won once with no 2nd place in War, all unupgraded, non-rare cards are allowed except:  Bonewall & Poison.

5.  Because Life won once and placed 2nd once in War, all unupgraded, non-rare cards are allowed except:  Horned Frog, Emerald Dragon, & Adrenaline.

6.  Because Aether, Fire, Air, Darkness, and Entropy have all placed better in War than those listed in the above rules, with the exception that any number of desired unupgraded pillars and pendulums are allowed, a maximum of 2 unupgraded, non-rare cards from each element is allowed to be played from those elements, and those allowed cards are: 

Spoiler for Hidden:
Aether, Fire, Air, Darkness, and Entropy allowable cards
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vg 4vn 4vo 4vq 5f1 5f3 5fb 5fe 5oh 5ok 5om 5oo 5un 5uq 5uu 5uv 620 621 623 626

***For rule #s 4, 5, and 6 combined, a maximum of 2 cards are allowed to be upgraded.


I think it is obvious that I was wanting more decks made with the least winning elements of War, then fewer and fewer of the other choices, most especially of those listed on #6.  There is some question about if there are cards which are too potent for the smaller listed rule numbers.  I thought it would be fine. 

There is some question about not having enough cards for the #6 elements, to make good duos.  But I meant for those options to be quite limited.  I was mostly just trying to make it possible to play some rainbows, and with mostly less played cards (I did try to select more underdog cards).  I tried to choose the four cards well, but I may not have had enough knowledge to make the best choices here.  For most elements I did try to have both low quanta and higher quanta cost cards.  (I nearly had only three listed cards of each element, which I would also consider fine.)  Since I wanted these cards to be used meagerly, I capped each of these elements to a maximum of 2; I did this on purpose.  I did provide a total of 2 upgrades to the combination of those elements so that one can have a couple essential cards upgraded.  There is some question about limiting it so much.  My second choice would be to eliminate these elements all together, as that is the point of this tournament, to focus on the other elements. 

I wasn't completely sure that I picked the right Life cards, but Horned Frog and Adrenaline were obvious.  I also wasn't sure if there should have been a fourth card selected, but at least one creature needs to be allowed (besides just Rustler) as I did want this element to be playable.

I could see a case for # 4 and / or #5 allowing Pillars and / or Pendulums to be upgraded, but certainly not the other cards.  Of course, I did want these definitely harder to play than those in #2 and #3 as they had won War.  Maybe a limit of 3 each upgraded Pillars and Pendulums in #4, and 2 each upgraded Pillars and Pendulums in #5?

Since there is some question about what people would think about this, if people believe that there needs to be adjustments made, this is getting posted so that possible tournament contenders can voice their opinions.

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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1304549#msg1304549
« Reply #771 on: December 29, 2020, 07:20:55 pm »
^ Guys, some feedback on this one?
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Offline Naii_the_Baf

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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1304551#msg1304551
« Reply #772 on: December 29, 2020, 10:36:14 pm »
A way to streamline this tournament would be to restrict a majority of the deck to an element. In other words, your deck has to be 50% of an element not in the sixth bullet point, for instance.
This is simpler than creating a point for every element, which makes it look a bit more complex than it should be.

Also, crippling the elements in the 6th bullet point doesn't work in your favor here. A lot of great decks from other elements use those elements and making them basically unusable by choosing some of the worst cards is not fun.

Basically, it would look like this:
  • Your deck must be at least 50% of one of the following elements:  :death :gravity :earth :life :water :light :time
  • Your deck can have up to X upgrades (6 is fine).

Banlist:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vl 500 50a 52q 52r 534 53e 55s 568 56i 59m 5bu 5c5 5cg 5cq 5f7 5fk 5fu 5ib 5j2 5lh 5li 5ls 5m6 5ol 5p0 5pa 5ro 5rp 5rs 5s4 5se 5ur 5v8 5vi 61t 61u 62c 62m


I added Dimshield, Squid and Sundial, and removed Emerald Dragon, Poison and Adrenaline. Adrenaline shouldn't be restricted and I'm not sure why Emerald Dragon was banned. Poison isn't that great without Arsenic, but it sees use nonetheless.

I wouldn't ban practically all rares. Currently the only allowed rares are Trident and Pulverizer, which are powerful cards on their own.
I'd allow Titan, Morning Star, Staff, SoV and SoFo at least.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 10:51:25 pm by Naii_the_Baf »
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Offline J617

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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1304553#msg1304553
« Reply #773 on: December 30, 2020, 03:30:52 am »
I had done my best to scour the battle results of War, but I looks like I made a few mistakes regarding 2nd place.  So I have made adjustments for the fact that Life never came in 2nd place and Earth did, and Entropy only placed 2nd once.

This is the possible Underdog Tournament (as it is currently written): 

Spoiler for Hidden:
The Underdog Tourney: 

*To understand the following rules, rares means ALL rares, whether they be normal rares or even ultra rares.  It doesn't matter whether we're talking shards, weapons, nymphs, Miracle, Pharaoh, Arctic Squid, marks, or even extreme rares such as Holy Cow.  However, keep in mind that the following rules are each for the listed elements in that particular rule; different rules will apply for different elements.

1.  All regular purchasable Other cards are allowed, including Relics.

2.  Because Water has never placed 1st or 2nd in War, ALL cards are allowed except:  shards.

3.  Because Earth, Gravity, Light, and Time have never won War, ALL cards are allowed except:  ALL rares.

4.  Because Death and Life won once with no 2nd place in War, all unupgraded, non-rare cards are allowed except:  Bonewall, Poison, Horned Frog, and Adrenaline.

5.  Because Entropy won once and placed 2nd once in War, all unupgraded, non-rare cards are allowed except:  Nova, Lycanthrope, Mutation, and Pandemonium.

6.  Because Fire, Air, Darkness, and Aether have all placed better in War than those listed in the above rules, with the exception that any number of desired unupgraded pillars and pendulums are allowed, a maximum of 2 unupgraded, non-rare cards from each element is allowed to be played from those elements, and those allowed cards are: 

Spoiler for Hidden:
Fire, Air, Darkness, and Aether allowable cards
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5f1 5f3 5fe 5ok 5om 5oo 5un 5uq 5uu 620 621 623

***For rule #s 4, 5, and 6 combined, a maximum of 2 cards are allowed to be upgraded.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 05:19:04 am by J617 »

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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1304554#msg1304554
« Reply #774 on: December 30, 2020, 05:22:10 am »
I had done my best to scour the battle results of War, but I looks like I made a few mistakes regarding 2nd place.  So I have made adjustments for the fact that Life never came in 2nd place and Earth did, and Entropy only placed 2nd once.

This is the possible Underdog Tournament (as it is currently written): 

Spoiler for Hidden:
The Underdog Tourney: 

*To understand the following rules, rares means ALL rares, whether they be normal rares or even ultra rares.  It doesn't matter whether we're talking shards, weapons, nymphs, Miracle, Pharaoh, Arctic Squid, marks, or even extreme rares such as Holy Cow.  However, keep in mind that the following rules are each for the listed elements in that particular rule; different rules will apply for different elements.

1.  All regular purchasable Other cards are allowed, including Relics.

2.  Because Water has never placed 1st or 2nd in War, ALL cards are allowed except:  shards.

3.  Because Earth, Gravity, Light, and Time have never won War, ALL cards are allowed except:  ALL rares.

4.  Because Death and Life won once with no 2nd place in War, all unupgraded, non-rare cards are allowed except:  Bonewall, Poison, Horned Frog, and Adrenaline.

5.  Because Entropy won once and placed 2nd once in War, all unupgraded, non-rare cards are allowed except:  Nova, Lycanthrope, Mutation, and Pandemonium.

6.  Because Fire, Air, Darkness, and Aether have all placed better in War than those listed in the above rules, with the exception that any number of desired unupgraded pillars and pendulums are allowed, a maximum of 2 unupgraded, non-rare cards from each element is allowed to be played from those elements, and those allowed cards are: 

Spoiler for Hidden:
Fire, Air, Darkness, and Aether allowable cards
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5f1 5f3 5fe 5ok 5om 5oo 5un 5uq 5uu 620 621 623

***For rule #s 4, 5, and 6 combined, a maximum of 2 cards are allowed to be upgraded.

might wanna look at the post above yours
O-oooooooooo AAAAE-A-A-I-A-U-JO-oooooooooooo AAE-O-A-A-U-U-A-E-eee-ee-eee AAAAE-A-E-I-E-A-JO-ooo-oo-oo-oo EEEEO-A-AAA-AAAA
Team :gravity Gen. (War #12)
Team :gravity Soldier (War #13)
Team :light Soldier (War #14)

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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1304555#msg1304555
« Reply #775 on: December 30, 2020, 12:57:06 pm »
I'm pretty sure Janice read that, I feel it is just she doesn't want that many changes to her original idea.
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Offline Naii_the_Baf

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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1304557#msg1304557
« Reply #776 on: December 30, 2020, 04:18:24 pm »
Just noticed: with J617's ruleset, UG dials OP. You either play that or BE, which isn't the easiest card to use. Have fun getting BE to work with the threat of RT.

I'm pretty sure Janice read that, I feel it is just she doesn't want that many changes to her original idea.

A reply would be nice at least.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 07:00:45 pm by Naii_the_Baf »
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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1304558#msg1304558
« Reply #777 on: December 30, 2020, 09:02:00 pm »
Hmm.  I was waiting to reply until I got more comments from people likely to tourney, referencing what I was thinking about for a tourney.  The only replies didn't really reference an underdog tourney at all.  The closest to anything was saying that one “had” to use “one” of 7 elements (should be only the first 5 for that type) at a minimum amount of 50% cards of “one” of those elements (should be at least 75% then, or at least 50% discounting all ppms of those particular elements (assuming we're only talking one of those elements)).  (In addition, at that point, one should still not allow some of the most popular cards in other elements; and I am referencing non rares.)

What mostly was mentioned makes this pretty much the same tourney as normal.  That was not my intention.  I wanted it beneficial to play certain decks over others but not “force” people to play them.  This way, while the majority would play those with either the most benefits to play, or nearly as many benefits, there will be some people who will make decks to try to counteract those decks.

If people don't actually like the idea of an underdog tourney, speak up and this will not be played.  I was hoping for advice on the slight variations similar to what I listed (or concerns about some particularly super strong card that people think may not belong), not a complete revamp of allowing almost every nonrare card. 

Remember, I want underdog elements to have more benefits, then only underdog cards allowed the further down the list one goes.  So if that is not what people want to play, than this is not the tourney for them, so then this should be bypassed.

Because Water has done the poorest in War, it has to have more benefits than the others so banning both its Trident and its Arctic Squid doesn't work (Shard of Patience really would be too overpowered with the most common permanent control cards banned).  Maybe only allowing those two cards to be unupgraded???  Because Earth, Gravity, Light, and Time have never won War either, they also need some great benefit over others, just not quite as much as Water.  These are the elements I think should have a great benefit over others. 

But to give more playability I have listed some other elements, just unupgraded and I banned their most popular cards.  These next are elements which have actually won War.  For Life the banned cards are obviously Horned Frog and Adrenaline.  For Death that is Bonewall.  I added Poison, but it may be Flesh Spider or even Vulture, I'm not sure which it should be, people could voice what they think is more popular there.  For Entropy I have banned more cards as it also placed 2nd once.  I banned Nova, Lycanthrope, Mutation, and Pandemonium.  Nova is obviously the most popular.  After that, I made my best guess for unupgraded cards.  People could chime in on the rest.  Butterfly Effect needs to be allowed because most permanent control cards are banned (and it isn't as popular as many other Entropy cards).  In addition, Dissipation Shield is seldom used, so must be allowed.  But remember, we're trying to ban some of the most popularly used cards, not keep what you want in.

Lastly, we have the final four big players in War.  I mostly added them to give a shot at having a rainbow.  Allowing Quantum Towers does give some nice benefit to having such restricted cards in these final four elements.  Give me a list of what you think the three least played, not overpowered cards in each of these elements should be.  Keep in mind, at least one card needs to be a creature.  For Fire it seems obvious to be Ash Eater and Fire Spirit, but the third, make suggestions.  I chose Seraph, but it could easily be another.  Perhaps Fire Shield, Rain of Fire, or Rage Potion.  Air was more difficult.  I selected Firefly, Unstable Gas, and Wings.  Its selections obviously can't include Dragonfly, Wyrm, Flying Weapon, and Shockwave.  As for Unstable Gas, with Fire being so limited, and only allowing two Unstable Gas, I figured that it would be a much better option than say Sky Blitz for all those OTK and flying creature decks.  But give me your suggestions.  For Darkness I selected Parasite, Nightfall, and Liquid Shadow.  There are few options that I think could replace these, but if you think that one deserves to be there more, speak up.  For Aether I selected Phase Spider, Quintessence, and Mindgate.  From what I've seen, and comments that I've read, Quintessence and Mindgate deserve to be there, but then a creature is needed, so you tell me, should it be Phase Spider, Immortal, or Phase Salvager?

I remember watching tourneys years ago where there were limited cards allowed, and now suddenly that is taboo?  War just finished and at the end the players were very limited with what they were able to play.  This is much more lenient.  There is just some cards which are banned (many banned from certain elements), and many cards are unupgraded.  And you're free to play whichever elements you wish, within restrictions.

Again, the whole idea of this tourney is to give preference to underdog elements and then underdog cards,  If people need this adjusted to having to play mostly from the first 5 elements then allowing some cards from the others, but not their most popular cards (restricting at least four), fine.  If people want to play most every nonrare cards from the most popular elements, then this is not the tourney for them.

Don't get me wrong, I love a completely unrestricted tourney.  And most of my favorite cards are banned here, so I would have to work at building decent decks myself.  All I really need in a tourney though, is for it to not be speedbuilding (which was how this tourney was meant to be), to be able to understand the rules, and that it is during a time when I can play.  I originally gave this idea the prior Monday, thinking that we (I) could play this before Christmas.  But with how all this is progressing, I am doubting that I would be able to compete in my own tourney, as I will likely not be available this weekend either.  :(  Oh well, at least I put forth a tournament idea.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 09:36:31 pm by J617 »

Offline Naii_the_Baf

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Re: Elements PvP Tournament - Your ideas! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=10877.msg1304559#msg1304559
« Reply #778 on: December 30, 2020, 10:40:16 pm »
Every element has a novabow─ do you really want to ban Nova?

The cards listed for the more restricted elements don't really have a place in a rainbow, need a deck dedicated to them, or are just plain terrible.
On the other hand, Firefly, Wings and UG make a deck all on their own. No deflag available but you can win by physical damage too.

I see your point in having the least used cards be the unrestricted ones, but there's a reason why they're left unused. Ban decks from specific elements? Ban staples from those elements, like you did for :death, :life and :entropy. Cards like Fractal, Dragonfly, Wyrm, Phoenix, Fire Bolt, Devourer to name a few. Don't cripple the elements themselves; again, that's not fun and is very restrictive. It also brings down many a deck from other elements, which doesn't work for your objective.

I present you the following banlist:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vh 4vl 4vp 52q 52r 593 5bu 5cg 5cq 5f2 5f4 5f7 5f9 5fa 5fc 5j2 5li 5m6 5od 5oe 5of 5oj 5oo 5p0 5pa 5ro 5rp 5se 5ul 5um 5uo 5ur 5uv 61t 61v 622 625 62m


Staples from Fire, Air, Darkness and Aether are banned, thus making you build in the other elements. This should achieve your objective of using decks of other elements mainly. Other bans are according to your list. This list should allow for decks that use the more powerful elements, but don't make them unusable outside of dedicated decks altogether. Tech/splash cards like Deflag and Nightmare are a nice addition to off-element decks too.

This should help streamline the tournament. Again, making a bullet point for every element makes it look unnecessarily complex. I'd rather read a few lines than an entire book.



Give me a list of what you think the three least played, not overpowered cards in each of these elements should be.

Not least played, for sure, but if we kept your idea how it is:
:fire Ash Eater, Deflagration, Rage Potion
:air Dragonfly, Firefly, Sky Blitz
:darkness Steal, Parasite, Liquid Shadow
:aether Immortal, Mindgate, Silence

Silence could be swapped for Quintessence.

About dragonfly, consider that the rest of Air is practically unaccessible. Dragonfly's worth is mainly on Air alone, so no access to it makes it pretty worthless.
Deflag and Steal is because PC needs to stay.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 11:08:38 pm by Naii_the_Baf »
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