Elements PvP League - Suggestions and Feedback

[blackknight280]

Veteran players play in BL because they have better chances for taking prices. In BL there are half not skilled players that would play any card they draw in their hands without thinking and they usually use 1 deck copy-pasted from veteran players posted on forum.
This is my first time playing league, actually I started being active on forums when I started playing this league. And didnt knew how things are going. So now when I know, I will certanly if I take 30 matches in next season go in BL, reasons:

1. More players -> more matches -> more fun
2. Half number of that players are newbies, so half matches will be easy win -> better chances for taking prices
3. Metagame is on high lvl because of unupped cards, you can combine every card and put in your deck, so there will be a lot of different decks and that is in my opinion beaty of elements. In CL we all use 2 or 3 same decks: poison, rainbow and sometimes rarely seen it appears third deck, but that is really rare.

So I think the only solution for next season is to put in rules: Players with more than 50 000 score cant join BL.
With that rule, in both leagues would be approximately same number of players and it would be really balanced : Let newbies play against newbies and enjoy in some winning and veterans play against veterans. That would be pitty for me because I will never see BL  but both leagues will be active. 

[Cheesy111]

Veteran players play in BL because they have better chances for taking prices. In BL there are half not skilled players that would play any card they draw in their hands without thinking and they usually use 1 deck copy-pasted from veteran players posted on forum.
This is my first time playing league, actually I started being active on forums when I started playing this league. And didnt knew how things are going. So now when I know, I will certanly if I take 30 matches in next season go in BL, reasons:

1. More players -> more matches -> more fun
2. Half number of that players are newbies, so half matches will be easy win -> better chances for taking prices
3. Metagame is on high lvl because of unupped cards, you can combine every card and put in your deck, so there will be a lot of different decks and that is in my opinion beaty of elements. In CL we all use 2 or 3 same decks: poison, rainbow and sometimes rarely seen it appears third deck, but that is really rare.

So I think the only solution for next season is to put in rules: Players with more than 50 000 score cant join BL.
With that rule, in both leagues would be approximately same number of players and it would be really balanced : Let newbies play against newbies and enjoy in some winning and veterans play against veterans. That would be pitty for me because I will never see BL  but both leagues will be active. 

I completely disagree.  It's MUCH harder to get a prize in BL, in my opinion, simply because there are so many more people in BL than in CL.  The deck choice, as you mentioned, is also much more varied in BL than in CL and this wealth of powerful decks also contributes to the complexity of BL.   And from my experience in BL, yes, there are players like the ones you describe (use one copy-pasted deck from forum, etc.) but they rarely play even three or four games.  The ones that play more games learn more and start using other decks.  Also, a score requirement is a terrible idea.  People would lose score to stay at 49999 and play in BL because they prefer the unupped metagame, and it's inane to have people lose score in order to enjoy a certain metagame. 

[Jenkar]

Veteran players play in BL because they have better chances for taking prices. In BL there are half not skilled players that would play any card they draw in their hands without thinking and they usually use 1 deck copy-pasted from veteran players posted on forum.

Highly untrue. Sure, there are ''easy pickings'', but those guys generally don't stay.

2. Half number of that players are newbies, so half matches will be easy win -> better chances for taking prices

In CL, more than 1/3 of players will get prizes. In BL, 1/9th. BL easier? I think not. Also, don't understimate newbies. Both regen and cheesy were newbies when they entered, yet they're in top10.

So I think the only solution for next season is to put in rules: Players with more than 50 000 score cant join BL.
With that rule, in both leagues would be approximately same number of players and it would be really balanced : Let newbies play against newbies and enjoy in some winning and veterans play against veterans. That would be pitty for me because I will never see BL  but both leagues will be active. 

This has been suggested over 9000 times. There are several problems with it :
First, begginer/championship are misnamed (in my opinion). What's important is not the skill you have to enter, but the kind of cards you want to play with.
Second, Score does *not* reflect skill. It reflects time spent grinding.
Thirdly, people'll LOSE score to enter bl, if such a rule was up. It used to be and that's what happenned. I'd lose my 430000 extra score if such a rule was put up.

[blackknight280]

I assume you are playing now in BL because you are defending it with a fire in your eyes .But you have same reasons why you play and why you will playing in future again BL as I posted above. I know that is BL better now and you have reasons for that.  If nothing changes next season see ya in BL. Then another solution would be to close CL because I think in next season there will be 7 players and they will just join to take free awards and in BL will be about 70-80 players maybe more.

[Jenkar]

I assume you are playing now in BL because you are defending it with a fire in your eyes .But you have same reasons why you play and why you will playing in future again BL as I posted above. I know that is BL better now and you have reasons for that.  If nothing changes next season see ya in BL. Then another solution would be to close CL because I think in next season there will be 7 players and they will just join to take free awards and in BL will be about 70-80 players maybe more.

This is indeed the problem we'd like to solve.

[Silver]

I think that the ELO turtling thing is really interesting. I would like to be another ignorant noob chipping in his two cents: In more skilled games like tennis or chess a high ELO player wouldn't be afraid to play a low ELO player because he would win. But in Elements any noob can copypasta Firestall, Graboid Rainbow, or whatever the dominant strategies of the time are and stand a really good chance of beating anyone. Even if someone has a unique deck it's fairly easy to reconstruct from playing it once or twice. It's not that the game is all luck, there are subtleties you can learn in this game, and of course the mind reading which makes a big difference. But still, if someone were to just roll a die to play Antagon's, Firestall, or DC/BH every match, wouldn't it be possible to win the whoel league? I remember a high rankig player telling me his strategy is to just stick to the top 3 decks and cycle through them.

[Jenkar]

I think that the ELO turtling thing is really interesting. I would like to be another ignorant noob chipping in his two cents: In more skilled games like tennis or chess a high ELO player wouldn't be afraid to play a low ELO player because he would win. But in Elements any noob can copypasta Firestall, Graboid Rainbow, or whatever the dominant strategies of the time are and stand a really good chance of beating anyone. Even if someone has a unique deck it's fairly easy to reconstruct from playing it once or twice. It's not that the game is all luck, there are subtleties you can learn in this game, and of course the mind reading which makes a big difference. But still, if someone were to just roll a die to play Antagon's, Firestall, or DC/BH every match, wouldn't it be possible to win the whoel league? I remember a high rankig player telling me his strategy is to just stick to the top 3 decks and cycle through them.

In cl, yep. In bl not so much. The reason people turtle in bl is : why risk?

[blackknight280]

And only solution is score limit, but believe me no one would loose score just to play in league that is restricted for him. That is just defending BL and thinking: ' I like BL much more than CL and I will place any reason I have just to stay in BL. I will pretending as I care for both leagues, but who cares for league in which doest playing'.
If we put that score limit you will see that no one will loose score just to play in BL. They will be maybe sad, but later will join in CL or they wouldnt play.

[Jenkar]

And only solution is score limit, but believe me no one would loose score just to play in league that is restricted for him. That is just defending BL and thinking: ' I like BL much more than CL and I will place any reason I have just to stay in BL. I will pretending as I care for both leagues, but who cares for league in which doest playing'.
If we put that score limit you will see that no one will loose score just to play in BL. They will be maybe sad, but later will join in CL or they wouldnt play.

Man. I care for leagues much more as an organizer than as a player. And people DID lose score before when there was that rule. if you go back to the first few pages of this thread you'll see that.

[blackknight280]

And only solution is score limit, but believe me no one would loose score just to play in league that is restricted for him. That is just defending BL and thinking: ' I like BL much more than CL and I will place any reason I have just to stay in BL. I will pretending as I care for both leagues, but who cares for league in which doest playing'.
If we put that score limit you will see that no one will loose score just to play in BL. They will be maybe sad, but later will join in CL or they wouldnt play.

Man. I care for leagues much more as an organizer than as a player. And people DID lose score before when there was that rule. if you go back to the first few pages of this thread you'll see that.

I said no one will lose score and you said people will lose score, then expect a small number of players who will lose their score. If they want to sacrifice their score for BL, let them play in BL then. But with this both leagues will have same number of players and both leagues will be active.

[Jenkar]

And only solution is score limit, but believe me no one would loose score just to play in league that is restricted for him. That is just defending BL and thinking: ' I like BL much more than CL and I will place any reason I have just to stay in BL. I will pretending as I care for both leagues, but who cares for league in which doest playing'.
If we put that score limit you will see that no one will loose score just to play in BL. They will be maybe sad, but later will join in CL or they wouldnt play.

Man. I care for leagues much more as an organizer than as a player. And people DID lose score before when there was that rule. if you go back to the first few pages of this thread you'll see that.

I said no one will lose score and you said people will lose score, then expect a small number of players who will lose their score. If they want to sacrifice their score for BL, let them play in BL then. But with this both leagues will have same number of players and both leagues will be active.

Valid point. Would you answer my two other points? ^^

[pikachufan2164]

Thirdly, people'll LOSE score to enter bl, if such a rule was up. It used to be and that's what happenned. I'd lose my 430000 extra score if such a rule was put up.

This.

Back when there was a score limit (maximum 20,000) for entering BL, DrunkDestroyer would routinely sandbag his score by setting up farms in PvP1.

I think that the ELO turtling thing is really interesting. I would like to be another ignorant noob chipping in his two cents: In more skilled games like tennis or chess a high ELO player wouldn't be afraid to play a low ELO player because he would win. But in Elements any noob can copypasta Firestall, Graboid Rainbow, or whatever the dominant strategies of the time are and stand a really good chance of beating anyone. Even if someone has a unique deck it's fairly easy to reconstruct from playing it once or twice. It's not that the game is all luck, there are subtleties you can learn in this game, and of course the mind reading which makes a big difference. But still, if someone were to just roll a die to play Antagon's, Firestall, or DC/BH every match, wouldn't it be possible to win the whoel league? I remember a high rankig player telling me his strategy is to just stick to the top 3 decks and cycle through them.

Not exactly.

One of BL's reigning champions, TStar, is the master of prediction. He's usually pretty spot on about knowing what his opponents will play for games 2 and 3, and prepares decks with an advantage against those (essentially soft counters).