Elements PvP League - Suggestions and Feedback

[RavingRabbid]

If you join CL and want to play unupped matches, just play friendly pvp duels, and vice versa. 

CL is for those that have played a lot to save up for a lot of upgraded cards.  The reason why the prize is higher, was probably due to the fact it involves upgraded cards and because there was a minimum score requirement to join.

BL, being called beginners league, should be for beginners only.  This gives new people, even with very little cards, a chance to compete and win something, but there are a lot that join that own every card unupped already, which gives them a clear advantage, since they can build decks based on what their opponent uses on a regular basis because they might not own a lot of cards. 

There should be a maximum score requirement on BL and a minimum on CL.  Since everyone believes that skill is more involved than luck anyway, those that are more "skilled" should be in CL, since new people are pretty much forced to play BL due to lack of unupped cards, but they could join and get stomped almost every game.

If anything, a 3rd league should be introduced for this mixed league idea, not combining the 2, with no score requirement allowing anyone to join, with the reward slightly greater than BL and noticeably lower than CL.

Now don't start raging about anything, BL is called beginners league for a reason, and it should be for beginners.  CL is for those that have been playing longer and have more experience and cards.  ML would be for those that can no longer join BL and don't feel they can compete in CL.

I mostly agree with this.

[Legit]

If Beginner's League is meant to be purely for beginners, a score cap or limitation of some sort is needed. Otherwise players like TStar or mrpaper (who are clearly not beginners) can win multiple seasons.

If Beginner's League is meant to be a league for players that prefer to play unupgraded (both veterans and newbies are included in this category), change the names of leagues to "Unupgraded League" and "Upgraded League."

[RootRanger]

Except everyone in the league currently plays by the same set of rules.  That wouldn't be the case in your suggestion.  A player who will only play upped is using different rules from a player who will only play unupped.

I don't see how this is a problem.

Assuming the current system is viable, success in unupgraded play as well as upgraded play should be rewarded. Mixed League does not prevent this.

Also, some of our best PvP Events have different rules for each game. For example, in TPvP, the Elements allowed are different for almost every game. In Fallen Empire, there are many different restrictions that players can have. Both of those Events seemed to be popular, fun, and fair.

If you join CL and want to play unupped matches, just play friendly pvp duels, and vice versa. 

Friendly duels don't have rewards.

CL is for those that have played a lot to save up for a lot of upgraded cards.  The reason why the prize is higher, was probably due to the fact it involves upgraded cards and because there was a minimum score requirement to join.

Upgraded cards and 20k score hardly relates to skill, and prizes should be based off of skill.

BL, being called beginners league, should be for beginners only.  This gives new people, even with very little cards, a chance to compete and win something,

The problem is that it's impossible to sort players by experience. Score does not do a very good job determining skill, and I haven't seen other ideas to sort players.

but there are a lot that join that own every card unupped already, which gives them a clear advantage, since they can build decks based on what their opponent uses on a regular basis because they might not own a lot of cards. 

Unlike CL, most BL players can play whatever deck they want.

There should be a maximum score requirement on BL and a minimum on CL.  Since everyone believes that skill is more involved than luck anyway, those that are more "skilled" should be in CL, since new people are pretty much forced to play BL due to lack of unupped cards, but they could join and get stomped almost every game.

Score and upgrades do not make players skillful, and the lack of score and upgrades does not mean those players lack skill.

If anything, a 3rd league should be introduced for this mixed league idea, not combining the 2, with no score requirement allowing anyone to join, with the reward slightly greater than BL and noticeably lower than CL.

Elements definitely does not have enough players for a third league. In my opinion, we don't even have enough for two.
Also, players that use upgraded cards do not deserve larger prizes.

Now don't start raging about anything, BL is called beginners league for a reason, and it should be for beginners.  CL is for those that have been playing longer and have more experience and cards.  ML would be for those that can no longer join BL and don't feel they can compete in CL.

The idea that experienced players would enjoy upgraded play more than unupgraded play is a bit ridiculous.

[bucky1andonly]

Why does the minimum score only have to be as low as 20k?  Also, generally, the more games you play, the more experience you gain (not exp to level up), so score is the best way to sort players.  This doesn't mean that everyone will understand the game as well after reaching a certain score, some people just grind AI3 or lower for score.  That is then, their problem.

Score and upgrades do not make players skillful, and the lack of score and upgrades does not mean those players lack skill.

That is not the point anyway.  The whole idea of skill in elements is mostly absurd to begin with.  The point is, BL should be for newer players anyway, to give them a chance to win some prizes too.  CL needs to be for those that have played many games and understand the game mechanics better.  Do notice how I put skill in quotation marks too. 

Don't forget, weekly tourneys are mostly unupped, and those who think they are skilled for joining BL for the different meta game (and it is truly not that different anyway, just slower) well they can join the tourneys for this unupped challenge they seek.  Leave the BL for actual beginners.  Those with fewer cards and much less games under their belt.  And a maximum score would help to regulate this. 

Which leads to CL's greater prize.  Since CL should be composed of people that have played thousands of games and have a lot of upgraded cards, the minimum score should be considerably higher than 20k anyway.  But because these people are more experienced, and have been around longer, and CL being upgraded presents a greater challenge in terms of how to counter super fast decks, the rewards is justified.  Where BL should be for actual beginners, their prize shouldn't be that great.  Compare to a professional sport, new players compared to veterans are paid substantially less.

What we learned-
1) BL for actual beginners = lower prize
2) CL for veterans = greater prize

If a vet wants to play in BL for the slimmer prize, they should start a new account so they have a small card pool which evens out the playing field for the new players.  There is not much point in a player joining BL after like 50 games, with hardly any cards if they are going up against people that own 6 of every unupped card.  That's not skill, that is just taking advantage of a system.  People should play in the league meant for them.


-edit-
Less reference to skill in elements too, since the game is mostly luck based. 

[TStar]

There used to be a score cap for BL.  It was removed when it became apparent players were intentionally losing before seasons started to get their score down to qualify for it for various reasons.  A score cap will not really change things.

The idea of a third league with separate prizes is fine.  However those prizes would need to come from taking away BL and CL prizes.  The amount of prizes for leagues is fixed.  The LO's have asked SG as recently as last season about obtaining more prize codes and were informed that the total number is fixed at the current level and the best that could be done is to reallocate them.  So a third league would take Mark/Nymph and electrum codes away from BL and CL to have it's own prizes.

[bucky1andonly]

On top of score requirements, number of games played can also keep out people that shouldnt be in the league

[Jenkar]

On top of score requirements, number of games played can also keep out people that shouldnt be in the league

That could actually be a viable possibility.

[plastiqe]

It's not hard to get an unupgraded collection, outside of maybe getting the 6 of each weapon.  But you don't really need 6 of each to be competitve.  Arbitrary limits on who can join a league is a bad idea and further splitting the leagues is also a bad idea.

I am in favour of banning all Shards.

I am in favour of renaming Beginners League to something else, maybe Unupgraded League.  Or this:

[14:42:25] RootRanger: How about Coinflip League and Balanced League? The names are much more accurate and both leagues keep the same abbreviation.

[ralouf]

I'm quite fine with shards actually but SoSac NEED to be banned or nerfed at least. the other seems not OP (tell me if I'm wrong)

I have no idea for the name but htey need to be changed and restriction are a bad idea IMO, everyone should be free to join any league.

[Vineroz]

There used to be a score cap for BL.  It was removed when it became apparent players were intentionally losing before seasons started to get their score down to qualify for it for various reasons.  A score cap will not really change things.

I think a 250k player is never going to lose 200k score to get into BL.

Also, I believe this act of intentionally losing score was before Arena? Now that these scores actually mean something, I don't see why a score cap cannot be re-implemented.

I suggest a score cap at around 40k-50k since it is between Level 50-53, people will get the idea of building good decks.

[Tuff726]

I have to say... shards suck.  Especially now that people can simply buy them.  Every opponent I face just uses shard decks.  Takes all the fun out of... the rest of the cards in this game.

EDIT: Hmmm... can we make a league where shards just are NOT allowed?  So this way the rest of the cards in the game are used.

LO Comment: Use that Modify button instead of doubleposting, please.

[pikachufan2164]

One simply doesn't "buy" shards. What Zanz intended was that the shard codes were a thank you gift for donating and supporting the game.

League is currently a testing ground for the future of Shards in PvP Events. Many tournaments and events already autoban Shards -- if they were banned in Leagues on release, then the community wouldn't be able to know whether or not they're balanced or disruptive to the metagame.

As for a third League, no. There's already a relatively small player pool already, and splitting it further is not the answer to the problems of people not finding others to play against. Also, we only get a limited number of prize codes to distribute for each season, so if a third League is set up, then the prizes for all Leagues would have to be reduced.