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Offline iancudorinmarianTopic starter

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Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293591#msg1293591
« on: September 09, 2019, 09:38:49 pm »
Some people absolutely hate OEtG, some people think it's miles better than the original, others don't really care about it.

As you probably all know, EtG's days are numbered. So if we want to continue to remain a community based around the game we all love, or used to love, we should as much as possible try to transition over to OEtG and go from there. New cards, balance changes, faster pvp, an active dev and much more.

So here I am asking you, the community, if you would like the next PvP event to be run in OEtG. Comments/suggestions are more than welcome as well.

Link, in case you're interested to try it out for yourself: https://etg.dek.im/

Offline Wyand

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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293592#msg1293592
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2019, 10:21:34 pm »
I'd favor transitioning to oetg vanilla, because oetg hugely differs from ETG.
Don't want to play a different game. The transitioning should be really slow
since ETG is still alive...
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 09:30:22 am by Wyand »
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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293593#msg1293593
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2019, 11:36:47 pm »
Would we have to build up collections on OetG or do you get all of the cards to start?

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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293595#msg1293595
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2019, 03:23:37 am »
Would we have to build up collections on OetG or do you get all of the cards to start?

Vanilla is basically a trainer, so you get all cards. Oetg has collection, but it has a sandbox mode iirc
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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293596#msg1293596
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2019, 05:10:59 am »
Would we have to build up collections on OetG or do you get all of the cards to start?
OEtG starts with a fresh collection, but there are guides which give you basically an unupped playset within an hour, for example this.

I rather OEtG more than Vanilla, since OEtG is an actual game, while Vanilla is just a PvP realm. It's also not working at the moment.

Offline Submachine

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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293597#msg1293597
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2019, 08:56:36 am »
I am in favor of a slow transition to oEtG, but since my PvP activity is decreasing, I found it fair to vote "I don't play PVP".
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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293598#msg1293598
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2019, 01:39:21 pm »
I asked serprex and he said he will absolutely not do any form of slow transition to oEtg.

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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293605#msg1293605
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2019, 05:09:24 pm »
majofa & I have communication problems

I am currently hoping to bring back oetg-v in an integrated fashion to oetg, but seasonal depression really kills my productivity. oetg-v will forever be an attempt to mirror the original, no intent to add cards to it. That fork already happened years ago with oetg. I'm not interested in maintaining another oetg. Anyone else is free to implement their own fork of it & host their own server. That said, this is in terms of technical transition. Slow transition of not waiting for Flash's EOL before running some oetg events is something that has little to do with me. I've also suggested events can start with a list of allowed cards which over time will encompass the entire cardpool, which mostly runs into issues with changes to existing cards

So to respond to dragonsdemesne: I've proposed an event. It's intent is to be accessible to newcomers without a collection & who don't feel like reading cg's How to grind an unupped playset in a couple hours (nb this may be inaccessible to some, we're experiencing forum issues with SMF 2.1 after the server move, but feel free to ask in Discord about getting started or somebody can throw up a pastebin if necessary). Still, oetg offers custom pvp with an unrestricted cardpool, so if people prefer to run events with free complete cardpools, they're free to do so
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 06:30:21 pm by serprex »

Offline ColorlessGreen

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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293607#msg1293607
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2019, 06:45:34 pm »
Speaking on behalf of the oetg admin team, I'd like to add a bit of clarity to a few points made above and serprex's comments.

1. Majofa has repeatedly contacted serprex and other members of the oetg admin team to suggest that oetg be abandoned and that its staff transfer to a new project based on existing etg that is led and directed by majofa while still being developed by the existing team. The oetg admin team does not intend to scrap the extensive amount of work it has done over the last six years. The oetg admin team has, in each instance, invited majofa to take a look at oetg, provide input, and even join the dev team, which he has so far declined to do. Majofa has continued to make this request approximately annually for quite some time. This is the only course of action that serprex or the oetg team has told Majofa it will absolutely not do, notwithstanding Majofa's comments to the contrary above. We still welcome him to join our efforts and help shape the future of the game. We want to be clear that collaboration is vital to our success.

2. As serprex mentioned, oetg-v exists (though some recent oetg changes have caused issues that are still being corrected) and will continue to exist as long as oetg exists. It will exist as a permanent snapshot of original elements and will not be changed away from original elements, but will continue to be hosted indefinitely. Further, we are exploring ways to easily implement oetg-v accounts to allow for oetg-v collecting, pve, and arenas. Those potential steps forward are still under development, but I would not be surprised to see them implemented fairly soon.

3. As a part of the infrastructure being developed to implement pve and such under oetg-v, we will also have the infrastructure to implement additional different cardpools (such as cygnia, for example, or another card pool based on original elements with only the changes that any individual person believes would be best). This infrastructure does not, sadly, come with the people necessary to develop those different card sets. However, serprex has repeatedly offered (to both majofa and the rest of the community) to provide support (consulting support, not coding support) for anyone looking to develop their own fork. Speaking personally, I am open to implementing multiple different card sets as fully usable within the game as a method to explore different paths that could be taken by both oetg and original elements, but again, that requires someone to do the work.

4. In addition to the ways to support both oetg-v and other alternate card pools, we are actively discussing and implementing both in-game and out-of-game resources designed to smooth the transition to oetg for anyone who has interest in taking a look. Most importantly, we recently released an extensive out-of-game FAQ/guide aimed specifically at veterans of original that describes the changes and other details that will be most relevant to someone coming from original. We are looking at implementing other in-game transition-supporting pve questlines and such as well, though that is a lower priority than the UI revamp.

5. We also have gone to great lengths to ensure that oetg pvp is accessible to any players regardless of wealth level, and that decklists of decent oetg pvp decks are available while people are learning the new cards. The FAQ/guide does include a section on how to build a pvp collection quickly. To directly address dragonsdemense's question, new players will not start with a full collection or anything of the sort, but the economy is balanced to allow wide access. It will be no problem for a veteran of original to have a competitive pvp playset the same day they create their account. We also sometimes offer free gold promotions at times when there is a large influx of new players. I suspect that if we hosted an official elementscommunity pvp event on oetg that cared at all about wealth level, we would concurrently be offering reward codes for gold to jumpstart new players.

6. With all of that being said, though, this exact thread is really how we have a slow transition to oetg. Original elements is going to die next year. Doing nothing until it dies is how you will end up with an abrupt transition. Starting now to move some more pvp events over to oetg allows the community to ease into oetg with limited cardpool events and other events that can help people slowly adjust to the changes over the years.


League is currently in session in oetg, and is rather active. New players (new to elements entirely, not just transplants from original) are joining the community due to oetg, even if you don't notice them until they move from the oetg-specific areas of the elements community out into the other areas. There have been massive improvements to the oetg UI lately, and development is still ongoing. The card text has been completely rewritten, so the game is far more accessible than it was in the past.

There are extensive changes from original, yes, and change can be hard. But we would strongly encourage you to view the changes we've made in-game in the context of oetg, not in the context of original. Original's development stopped in 2012. The new changes have been being tested and tweaked for the last six years. I know we don't have perfect balance yet, but I bet we're a lot closer than you'd think we are when looking at some of the changes in a vacuum through the lens of original. We'd really like it if you'd come help us make it even better.

To get us back on topic, pvp events will run in oetg. We would absolutely love it if those of you who have the interest join us in some of those events, or help design events. If not, we hope you remain part of the original/oetg community even if you don't want to play.

Offline majofa

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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293608#msg1293608
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2019, 07:12:21 pm »
So essentially what I said. It's either oEtg or vanilla. (Yes, you can have limited card events, but don't forget to mention that you can't buy cards from the Bazaar.. only other players, or buy packs. If everyone has the same card limits, those cards will be difficult to get. Am I wrong here?)

Also, your use of 'repeatedly' in point #1 is very misleading. You can't say 'repeatedly' and then list a whole bunch of things and imply that all of those were done 'repeatedly'. I'd ask that you please edit your post with more truth towards this.

As to your comment of inviting me to join the dev team; please change that to: 'inviting me to run events for you'.

I'm just trying to help the community and I don't feel that oEtg is the best fit, just wish we had other options. (Hmm, maybe we do ;)  stay tuned for future details)

Offline ColorlessGreen

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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293609#msg1293609
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2019, 07:37:46 pm »
I just checked my PMs and pulled up the one where I offered you a slot on the team in charge of designing and balancing new cards after you asked to be a part of or in charge of all balance/design and subsequently proposed you be given “lead designer” role. If you dispute this, I am happy to post the entire pm chain later. You are correct that as you continued to repeat that request over time, we suggested more joining the team in charge of events rather than design as it became clear that you wanted full control and a fresh slate in order to work on design. Apologies for not being sufficiently clear.

Regarding “repeatedly”, assuming you don’t dispute that you have talked serp about it at least one of the multiple different times he’s told me you were making the same request, I’m pretty confident “repeatedly” is accurate in this context.

Regarding the economy, as I just said, you can have a play set from a fresh account in a day. There are not card limits in-account, so many people are available to sell singles from a large pool of spare cards. If your concern is cards being too hard to get, you are really demonstrating that you haven’t even looked.

Regarding “oetg or vanilla”, those are the options that we (the oetg admin team) are developing. We just offered and have repeatedly offered to provide support for additional paths of development if anyone wants to do the work.

Speaking personally, I have absolutely no interest in trying to force or coerce anyone into oetg that doesn’t want to. Oetg is the only option in the sense that it is the one of many successors/forks/etc that is being actively developed. If you start another one, I will likely play it too, and will definitely send people there when oetg isn’t for them. In the mean time, oetg will continue to move forward and will keep open arms towards anyone who would like to play or work on an actively-developed game.


edit: PMs cited above were requested by majofa via PM and delivered via PM. I have additionally slightly revised opening paragraph to correct a misstatement regarding the order of events. For transparency, the change was from "you replied by proposing lead designer" to "subsequently proposing lead designer". the correct order of events in that specific PM chain was (1) majofa request for full control, (2) majofa request for lead designer, (3) cg proposal re new card oversight. I mistakenly listed the order as 1,3,2 in my initial message due to misreading the order on my phone. Apologies for the error.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 11:17:41 pm by ColorlessGreen »

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Re: Should the next PvP event be run in OEtG? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67331.msg1293614#msg1293614
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2019, 02:24:07 am »
To answer the topic's question: No, it should not.

Vanilla-EtG is broken and does not work. Also, deck codes have been changed, so have fun translating yours. All in for a smooth transition there.
I do not feel like grinding up again just to compete in events on an even scale. You can't even buy specific cards. Smooth transition again.
I am here because I like EtG the way it is. If I want to play another game, there is lots of good stuff out there.

If vanilla works, that is tolerable. Even then, I see little reason to not keep using the real site while it is online.

Also, I am curious to see what majofa is talking about.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 02:29:59 am by Ginyu »
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