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Offline TreldonTopic starter

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Slaver | Slave Master [Darkness (?)] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56232.msg1161827#msg1161827
« on: October 23, 2014, 03:30:39 am »
NAME:
Slaver
ELEMENT:
:darkness
COST:
9
TYPE:
Spell
TEXT:
Target an enemy creature. It is moved to your field - it figths for you now
NAME:
Slave master
ELEMENT:
:darkness
COST:
8
TYPE:
Spell
TEXT:
Target an enemy creature. It is moved to your field - it figths for you now.  It also gains +1|+1

ART:

IDEA:
Treldon
NOTES:
Can backfire:
Slaver has 30%, Slave Master 25% chance to add one of your creatures to the opponent
SERIES:


The element itself is quite open, I only chose :darkness as a starter because enslaving anyone/anything is not nice. Plus Steal is there

Update 1: cost raised
Update 2: cost raised, backfire chance added
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 07:49:37 am by Treldon »
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Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Slaver | Slave Master [Darkness (?)] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56232.msg1161829#msg1161829
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2014, 03:42:14 am »
Seen this idea quite a bit before. Here's why it doesn't work:

1) Strictly better than Parrallel Universe.
2) Instant kill with Immolation (you get quanta back too, just in a different element)
3) 1-for-2 card advantage - you're basically getting a free instant creature kill (which this game can actually be quite picky with) and a creature. Making it a creature would've just broke the thing in two.

Not that I want to buzzkill your card, but this idea has run the gauntlet before and the above reasons are some of the more notable reasons it got rejected by the community. Do you have any ideas on how you'd deal with what I've listed above besides raising cost?

Offline TreldonTopic starter

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Re: Slaver | Slave Master [Darkness (?)] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56232.msg1161831#msg1161831
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2014, 04:10:09 am »
Seen this idea quite a bit before. Here's why it doesn't work:

1) Strictly better than Parrallel Universe.
2) Instant kill with Immolation (you get quanta back too, just in a different element)
3) 1-for-2 card advantage - you're basically getting a free instant creature kill (which this game can actually be quite picky with) and a creature. Making it a creature would've just broke the thing in two.

Not that I want to buzzkill your card, but this idea has run the gauntlet before and the above reasons are some of the more notable reasons it got rejected by the community. Do you have any ideas on how you'd deal with what I've listed above besides raising cost?

No worries. I suspected it has been proposed several times, but one version might just be that much better than the others that it will work

Solution attempts
1: Make it backfire - Slaver has a 30% chance, Slave master a 25% chance to take one of your creatures and give it to the opponent
2: Not much can be done about it, except for raising the cost a bit (8 or 9 perhaps) to make it an ineffective use
(To be fair, the same argument can be made against TU, Mito, and even Afla, if used on your own creature)
3: While not exactly negated, the advantage could be lessened by delaying the effect. For example removes the creature from play in the first turn, and adds it to your field in the next

The other option that came to mind is that instead of the direct transfer, remove the creature and add it to your hand - but that would probably make it useless
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Offline Espithel

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Re: Slaver | Slave Master [Darkness (?)] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56232.msg1162070#msg1162070
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 11:31:52 pm »
For reference, SoW reflect is an entire deck dedicated to this type of effect, whilst this is a CARD - One 30/th of a deck, dedicated to this entire effect.

That should be an indicator of how powerful it is.

And SoW reflect, when it gets a good draw... It's only countered by SouFflé, Chimera and creatureless decks.
When it gets a good draw, you might as well quit the game before it's even started - It can outrush fire stalls, cremation decks, even SoR fate eggs.

I struggle to think of a deck that is so murderously powerful against so many other decks.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 03:58:31 pm by Frozengaia »

Offline TreldonTopic starter

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Re: Slaver | Slave Master [Darkness (?)] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56232.msg1162121#msg1162121
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 08:37:29 am »
I agree, it is a powerful one, but 'murderously powerful' might be a bit on the dramatic side.

But for the sake of arguement, lets make it less OP/harder to abuse
First, two of the options in my previous post: a bit of cost raising, plus a chance to make it backfire
On top of that, a restriction: this spell can only be used 3 times in a match. That's 3 times total, so any use of the card counts, whether you or opponent

For now I have updated the original post with cost raise and backfire
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