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Offline NevzaraTopic starter

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Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1242903#msg1242903
« on: August 28, 2016, 04:27:36 am »
The idea ties in to time much better however time already has a scorpion, I chose earth because of the pulveriser which has a similar ability.

For each successful attack destroy the top card of opponent's deck.

The idea is to speed up deck out wins, plus having just one of them in your deck negates the infinite loop caused by Eternity.
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Offline Hyroen

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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1242904#msg1242904
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2016, 04:29:29 am »
Explain thematically why :earth Earth would have such a mechanic.
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Offline NevzaraTopic starter

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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1242907#msg1242907
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2016, 04:32:39 am »
Pulveriser destroy's permenant's, Earthquake destroy's pillars, this card would just destroy cards not yet on the field.
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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1242908#msg1242908
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2016, 04:44:02 am »
Different types of card destruction have different amounts of impact on the game. Destroying any permanent outright with just one card is considered normal, but destroying any creature outright with just one card is considered brokenly OP. Lightning can kill most creatures, and fire bolt can kill any non-immortal creature, but those cards have limits, either by creature HP in the case of lightning or by increased cost (more quanta needed) in the case of fire bolt.

Forcing discards of cards still in deck would be very difficult, if not impossible, to balance.
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Offline NevzaraTopic starter

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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1242912#msg1242912
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2016, 05:47:42 am »
I understand what you're saying but I disagree.
Let's go with the obvious choice which is an ether earth duo, fractual, shield, lobotomiser, and this scorpion. A basic shield would shut that deck down entirely.

Or let's compare health to this scorpion, health you need to do a minimum of 100 damage, but you could have ten dragons doing ten damage each pretty easy for a OHKO, this creature could never OHKO and against most decks it'd be too slow. I mean compared to other scorpions it's heaps underpowered as poison will stack, this won't.
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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1242914#msg1242914
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2016, 05:58:53 am »
Is this scorpion going to enter the field with an attack score of 1 (forest scorpion) or 0 (dune scorpion, deathstalker)? In the first case, it is OP. In the second one, it is more likely UP. I think balancing this would be difficult...
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Offline NevzaraTopic starter

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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1242915#msg1242915
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2016, 06:06:52 am »
I'd set it at 1 but cost it at 5 or so.
If I have no support I'll scrap the idea.
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Offline Espithel

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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1243003#msg1243003
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2016, 10:08:34 pm »
Consider this:
We start with 23 cards in our deck, which is 30 - 7. You'll have more if you're a stally deck.
As a result, it takes 23 turns to die from deckout.
This card halves that to 12.5 turns, assuming you get one out on the first turn, which is impossible but nuance makes stuff complicated.
100 / 12.5 is 8.

Therefore, it is safe to assume that a single copy of this card is as good as a single creature with 8 ATK, give or take complications.
This maths gets weird with multiple copies, fails to factor in how you can only have 6 scorpions but many more cards that also deal damage as well as you not likely to get a scorpion out until later, and how milling affects the board more than being hit in the face.

You would be hard pressed to balance out an eight-damage fighter that also messes with your opponent's draws.

Milling is just one of those mechanics that fundamentally can't work with current ETG's system. If it was less than six copies of a card per deck, it could work. If it was minimum deck size 40, it could work.

Offline serprex

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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1243005#msg1243005
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2016, 10:12:36 pm »
It doesn't really mess with the opponent's draws, not counting RT. Balance around 8 attack, 10 cost probably leaves it a bit UP, but depends on health

It runs into a bit of a conflicting role as it should be in the realm of bypass speed since it counters healing yet decks with healing tend towards having over 30 cards
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 10:14:30 pm by serprex »

Offline Espithel

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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1243006#msg1243006
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2016, 10:21:28 pm »
I meant messing up draws as in being capable of removing cards that could deal with it or something else that you want from your deck.

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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1243032#msg1243032
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2016, 01:49:12 am »
But without knowledge, you're just as likely to be drawing them into those answers

Offline NevzaraTopic starter

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Re: Rock Scorpion/ Titanium Scorpion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=62821.msg1243034#msg1243034
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2016, 02:34:34 am »
If you're lucky you might destroy an answer but statistically it's going to be mostly pillars.
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