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Offline Chapuz

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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156327#msg1156327
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2014, 05:57:36 pm »
Okay, okay, you have almost completely convinced me  ::) Not for :life in this form

Now, if I have ideas on how to implement it with different effects (spawning creatures based un the number of creatures on the field or similar) or with :darkness , I should open a new thread, and not rewrite this one, right?
If you consider it a variation of the card, just modify the OP (opening post). If it looks like  a completely new card, make a new thread
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Offline dawn to dusk

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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156353#msg1156353
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2014, 09:40:19 pm »
@frozen so what, thorn carapace should be in death because it can kill despite the thematic effect?

also, please dont discuss different metas, it confuses a lot of people
Yes.
Life shouldn't poison.


Also shouldn't be in life?

Offline iDaire

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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156419#msg1156419
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2014, 02:02:03 am »
@frozen so what, thorn carapace should be in death because it can kill despite the thematic effect?

also, please dont discuss different metas, it confuses a lot of people
Yes.
Life shouldn't poison.


Also shouldn't be in life?
Doesn't fit well in life.

Offline dawn to dusk

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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156421#msg1156421
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2014, 02:05:14 am »
So , and are out of element?

Offline iDaire

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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156424#msg1156424
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2014, 02:08:56 am »
So , and are out of element?
Irrelevance.
Life shouldn't poison.
Doesn't include other elements.

Offline dawn to dusk

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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156426#msg1156426
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2014, 02:10:37 am »
And time should poison?

Tell me where in the element of time, that it should be able to poison

Offline iDaire

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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156429#msg1156429
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2014, 02:12:24 am »
And time should poison?

Tell me where in the element of time, that it should be able to poison
Neurotoxin doesn't count as your standard "poison"
Also, time could include anything that has happened in history.
Including poison.

Offline dawn to dusk

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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156431#msg1156431
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2014, 02:14:14 am »
Well in that case, scorpions are alive, and forests have :life written all over them.
And plenty of animals use poison to protect themselves. Thorn carapace is the carapace of such an animal

Offline iDaire

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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156434#msg1156434
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2014, 02:17:42 am »
Well in that case, scorpions are alive, and forests have :life written all over them.
And plenty of animals use poison to protect themselves. Thorn carapace is the carapace of such an animal
So is every other creature in this game. Throw them all into life.
The creatures that use poison to protect themselves aren't in life because of thematics.
Thorn Carapace. You really want to tell me thorn carapace is an actual carapace?

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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156458#msg1156458
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2014, 06:38:15 am »
Well in that case, scorpions are alive, and forests have :life written all over them.
And plenty of animals use poison to protect themselves. Thorn carapace is the carapace of such an animal
So is every other creature in this game. Throw them all into life.
The creatures that use poison to protect themselves aren't in life because of thematics.
Thorn Carapace. You really want to tell me thorn carapace is an actual carapace?

While it is true that since the creatures are live, they could be all put in  :life - but that would be quite boring, really
Also, as I see it the current  :life creatures are all forest dwellers. While a charger is alive, it belongs on the plains, not the forest. And puffer fish would be quite dead out of water

And as dawn pointed out, poison is the weapon of choice for plenty of life forms, especially in the (rain)forest

And finally, the carapace. Yeah, why not? It makes more sense to have a poisonous bug shell as a :life shield than Emerald Shield
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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156723#msg1156723
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2014, 07:51:07 pm »
So I thought I should chime in a bit here.

I am very much for trying to keep elemental themes preserved, but I would like to note here that across the board we see that elements will occasionally borrow mechanics that seem to lie in the domain of other elements.

Poison mechanic, for instance, is one of the largest cases of this. While it is strongly tied to :death that doesn't mean it is exclusive to death. We see it in a large number of other elements. Death is just the best at it.

Healing is another mechanic that is seen in many different elements. While :life and :light lay strongest thematic claim to it, it is also seen in :water :earth :gravity :death (SoSac) :entropy (AM) and :darkness (via the specialized drain / vampire mechanic)

So ANY element can borrow a mechanic from ANY other element as long as
1) it can be thematically justified (thorns shield dealing poison damage for instance)
2) It doesn't outshine the element that the mechanic actually belongs in.
3) (preferable but not absolute requirement) it provides a twist to the mechanic that helps it fit in the new element
4) (optional but often a good idea) it somehow requires quanta or cards from the host element (e.g. chrysaora)

Perhaps the strongest example is Seraph's divine protection ability. Until this card came around, immaterial was solely in the domain of aether. This card brings it into both the :fire and :light element. Yet it is a brilliantly executed example because:
1) there is strong thematic justification (divine intervention / protection for an avenging angel)
2) It doesn't outshine the protection found in aether (it has to be applied every turn and the angel is vulnerable its first turn)
3) It provides a unique twist (see 2)

So on to this card... I kinda like the thematics, and I can see how it fits but I think it needs some work.

Firstly, I would say drain mechanic is very strongly tied to :darkness and as of yet it is seen in no other element. That doesn't mean it can't be put into a card of another element, but you have to keep the implementation low key so that it doesn't outshine the :darkness cards that are supposed to have "thematic dibs" on it

In this case, you are providing a mass CC drain... That is going to be an extremely potent source of drain damage and will, in many cases, outstrip most :darkness cards in terms of power. For this reason, I don't like this card not having a tie into the dark element.

Lastly, while you do provide a small twist, I don't think making it mass CC alone really fits well... For instance, why is a single seed affecting every enemy creature? If it just popped onto a single creature and acted like a drain poison (especially if it, say, caused a plant to pop out or something when the victim dies) I could get behind that. But a mass CC version is a stretch.
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Re: Leech Seed | Parasite Seed [Life] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55783.msg1156741#msg1156741
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2014, 09:51:49 pm »
So I thought I should chime in a bit here.

I am very much for trying to keep elemental themes preserved, but I would like to note here that across the board we see that elements will occasionally borrow mechanics that seem to lie in the domain of other elements.

Poison mechanic, for instance, is one of the largest cases of this. While it is strongly tied to :death that doesn't mean it is exclusive to death. We see it in a large number of other elements. Death is just the best at it.

Healing is another mechanic that is seen in many different elements. While :life and :light lay strongest thematic claim to it, it is also seen in :water :earth :gravity :death (SoSac) :entropy (AM) and :darkness (via the specialized drain / vampire mechanic)

So ANY element can borrow a mechanic from ANY other element as long as
1) it can be thematically justified (thorns shield dealing poison damage for instance)
2) It doesn't outshine the element that the mechanic actually belongs in.
3) (preferable but not absolute requirement) it provides a twist to the mechanic that helps it fit in the new element
4) (optional but often a good idea) it somehow requires quanta or cards from the host element (e.g. chrysaora)

Perhaps the strongest example is Seraph's divine protection ability. Until this card came around, immaterial was solely in the domain of aether. This card brings it into both the :fire and :light element. Yet it is a brilliantly executed example because:
1) there is strong thematic justification (divine intervention / protection for an avenging angel)
2) It doesn't outshine the protection found in aether (it has to be applied every turn and the angel is vulnerable its first turn)
3) It provides a unique twist (see 2)

So on to this card... I kinda like the thematics, and I can see how it fits but I think it needs some work.

Firstly, I would say drain mechanic is very strongly tied to :darkness and as of yet it is seen in no other element. That doesn't mean it can't be put into a card of another element, but you have to keep the implementation low key so that it doesn't outshine the :darkness cards that are supposed to have "thematic dibs" on it

In this case, you are providing a mass CC drain... That is going to be an extremely potent source of drain damage and will, in many cases, outstrip most :darkness cards in terms of power. For this reason, I don't like this card not having a tie into the dark element.

Lastly, while you do provide a small twist, I don't think making it mass CC alone really fits well... For instance, why is a single seed affecting every enemy creature? If it just popped onto a single creature and acted like a drain poison (especially if it, say, caused a plant to pop out or something when the victim dies) I could get behind that. But a mass CC version is a stretch.

Thanks for the input. It is valued.

And the last bit gave me an idea that I will work on tomrrow. Stay tuned  8)
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