Fall Of Empires | Fall Of Empires

[iskelion]

NAME: Fall Of Empires ELEMENT: Time COST: 15 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Transform all of your opponent's pillars and pendulums into Ruined Pillars	NAME: Fall Of Empires ELEMENT: Time COST: 13 TYPE: Spell ATK|HP: TEXT: Transform all of your opponent's pillars and pendulums into Ruined Pillars

ART: iskelion IDEA: iskelion NOTES: produce "ruined pillar" tokens SERIES: invasion

-----------------------------------------------
 

-----------------------------------------------

NAME: Ruined Pillar ELEMENT: Other COST: 0 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: Produce 2 random quanta each turn.	NAME: Ruined Pillar ELEMENT: Other COST: 0 TYPE: Permanent ATK|HP: TEXT: Produce 2 random quanta each turn.

ART: iskelion IDEA: iskelion NOTES: exists only as a token generated by "fall of empires" SERIES: invasion

[xyan]

1 activation leading to an everyturn-thereafter discord to the max? NO.

however, EQ hits 1 stack for up to 3. what if this was nerfed to just converting 1 stack of pillars or pendulums? (still probably OP, maybe limit to 5, 3 maybe since EQ is already powerful denial)

[iskelion]

1 activation leading to an everyturn-thereafter discord to the max? NO.

however, EQ hits 1 stack for up to 3. what if this was nerfed to just converting 1 stack of pillars or pendulums? (still probably OP, maybe limit to 5, 3 maybe since EQ is already powerful denial)

i imagined the circumstances of the match, first this would be a "late game" card due of it's high cost so the enemy player could have at least a small quanta reserve, and it doesn't completely destroy pillars, it just randomize it's production, kind of like Discord (which is playable really early and i also deals damage
you also have Devour that is playable in the first turn, which not only absorbs enemy quanta but also gives you quanta
Earthquake, that for a miserable amount of quanta completely obliterates 3 pillars and Poseidon that is ridiculously powerful at destroying pillars

(edit: it was supposed to be a spell, my mistake)

[xyan]

1 activation leading to an everyturn-thereafter discord to the max? NO.

however, EQ hits 1 stack for up to 3. what if this was nerfed to just converting 1 stack of pillars or pendulums? (still probably OP, maybe limit to 5, 3 maybe since EQ is already powerful denial)

i imagined the circumstances of the match, first this would be a "late game" card due of it's high cost so the enemy player could have at least a small quanta reserve, and it doesn't completely destroy pillars, it just randomize it's production, kind of like Discord (which is playable really early and i also deals damage
you also have Devour that is playable in the first turn, which not only absorbs enemy quanta but also gives you quanta
Earthquake, that for a miserable amount of quanta completely obliterates 3 pillars and Poseidon that is ridiculously powerful at destroying pillars

(edit: it was supposed to be a spell, my mistake)

this in a monotime = tons of control, and in a mono this could be easily played turn 3

IDK about you, but i've seen many games decided by early quanta denial (early discord, good devourer starts, EQ spam, gravy nymph). And each of these can be turn 2-4 easy.

One cast of this can slow even the fastest rush to a horrible speed, unless the opponent's RNG is great giving most random quanta to what he needs.

This is also spammable, which is bad for such strong denial.

Also, super weak vs rainbows.

[iskelion]

1 activation leading to an everyturn-thereafter discord to the max? NO.

however, EQ hits 1 stack for up to 3. what if this was nerfed to just converting 1 stack of pillars or pendulums? (still probably OP, maybe limit to 5, 3 maybe since EQ is already powerful denial)

i imagined the circumstances of the match, first this would be a "late game" card due of it's high cost so the enemy player could have at least a small quanta reserve, and it doesn't completely destroy pillars, it just randomize it's production, kind of like Discord (which is playable really early and i also deals damage
you also have Devour that is playable in the first turn, which not only absorbs enemy quanta but also gives you quanta
Earthquake, that for a miserable amount of quanta completely obliterates 3 pillars and Poseidon that is ridiculously powerful at destroying pillars

(edit: it was supposed to be a spell, my mistake)

this in a monotime = tons of control, and in a mono this could be easily played turn 3

IDK about you, but i've seen many games decided by early quanta denial (early discord, good devourer starts, EQ spam, gravy nymph). And each of these can be turn 2-4 easy.

One cast of this can slow even the fastest rush to a horrible speed, unless the opponent's RNG is great giving most random quanta to what he needs.

This is also spammable, which is bad for such strong denial.

Also, super weak vs rainbows.

i know, early Discords, EQ, Devours, or even an early BH can decide a match. my point being: if those cards are playable why wouldn't this one be?
about weak vs rainbow, i would say "just not as effective", having in mind rainbows produce 3q per pillar, making them produce x2 (or x1 if the poll says so) would somehow hinder its production

about giving rush horrible speed, i think "timing" is what the element "time" is all about, also, Procastination, RT, and i still defend that cost wise, it's not as overpowered as Discord

i don't believe it has much spam value, lets say you just played this, playing it the next turn just for 1 pillar would be a waste of 10-7 quanta

element-wise, time doesn't have any other kind of permanent or quanta control

[xyan]

Yes, but it has strong draw denial, and card advantage for that matter in other cards, paired with soft creature control in one cheap card.

also, this card could cause a loss with one cast. really early discord with strong rng can do this, but can be blocked by shields and sanctuary. devourers reach a limit of how much they can absorb, and are slow to shut someone down in a devtal deck and once again shut down by sanctuary. BH drains once, usually needs paired with other cards (gravy nymph can spam it, but open to cc and costs a lot to play) and shut down by sanctuary. EQ is countered somewhat by slow playing quanta and by splitting quanta sources and by having mark cards (1 permanent PCs do this at a slower and weaker rate) and being stopped by enchant artifact.

the only thing I see this is hard countered by is slow play of quanta or having a ton of quanta sources or maybe enchant artifact based on the mechanic coding, but this card can be just as strong late as it is early with its "all" targeting.

[iskelion]

Yes, but it has strong draw denial, and card advantage for that matter in other cards, paired with soft creature control in one cheap card.

also, this card could cause a loss with one cast. really early discord with strong rng can do this, but can be blocked by shields and sanctuary. devourers reach a limit of how much they can absorb, and are slow to shut someone down in a devtal deck and once again shut down by sanctuary. BH drains once, usually needs paired with other cards (gravy nymph can spam it, but open to cc and costs a lot to play) and shut down by sanctuary. EQ is countered somewhat by slow playing quanta and by splitting quanta sources and by having mark cards (1 permanent PCs do this at a slower and weaker rate).

the only thing I see this is hard countered by is slow play of quanta or having a ton of quanta sources, but this card can be just as strong late as it is early with its "all" targeting.

well, Protect artifact could deny its power, and there are only 2 shields that can -temporarily- block the 6 Dmg Discord produces every turn for just 3 quanta, and you can stack Discords with Animate weapon
Devours are not very effective during late game, but are devastating at the beginning

this card has more targets late game, but your enemy has a higher quanta reserves as well, so the redistribution of production doesn't hit as hard
i could see this kind of being a bit overpowered if Ruined Pillars produced only 1 random, but im having a hard time to conceive this as more powerful than EQ, Poseidon and Discord, as they completely destroy pillars and cost way less, and even less having in mind entropy also has a other permanent control card (BE) and that Discord's low cost doesn't require a mono-duo deck

[xyan]

but most decks will run some sort of PC to destroy discord/trident or way to resist denial by other means. discord unupped is 4 damage btw, also any shields that produce "misses" stops discord from going off, AND sanctuary protects it from happening.

this card is way to strong, it is potential killer early AND late game. all other forms of denial either have more than 1 way to counter, require multiple copies to spam, or suffer either early (like devourers or discord vs decent quanta start, or discord late when opponent's quanta generation is high and already has a big spread thanks to discord so just as many go into trolled quanta as are taken away).

simply changing to all of ONE stack of quanta sources, and IMHO should be limited to a number like 5, will not make this nearly as OP as it is against 90% of decks.

[iskelion]

but most decks will run some sort of PC to destroy discord/trident or way to resist denial by other means. discord unupped is 4 damage btw, also any shields that produce "misses" stops discord from going off, AND sanctuary protects it from happening.

this card is way to strong, it is potential killer early AND late game. all other forms of denial either have more than 1 way to counter, require multiple copies to spam, or suffer either early (like devourers or discord vs decent quanta start, or discord late when opponent's quanta generation is high and already has a big spread thanks to discord so just as many go into trolled quanta as are taken away).

simply changing to all of ONE stack of quanta sources, and IMHO should be limited to a number like 5, will not make this nearly as OP as it is against 90% of decks.

i see your point, how about transforming 5-6 random non-"ruined pillars" pillars/pendulums to ruined pillars?

it would still be significantly less cost-efficient and have a lesser effect than EQ

[xyan]

random makes it too powerful early even if opponent splits quanta.

[iskelion]

random makes it too powerful early even if opponent splits quanta.

how much quanta do you think it should cost to be ok as it is?

[xyan]

random makes it too powerful early even if opponent splits quanta.

how much quanta do you think it should cost to be ok as it is?

maybe 15 |13 .