One Man's Trash

[kev]

One Man’s Trash

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd175314/treasure_chest.bmp)

Original idea by: kevkev60614   |   Developed by: kevkev60614   |  Organized by: ??

Win with seldom used cards and rack up points.
WHO CAN PLAY

Anyone with a forum and a chat account is eligible.  Sign up by posting on the separate sign up topic. If you cannot find a sign up topic or if it is locked, this event is not currently active and you will have to wait for it to restart.
DECK BUILDING

Players create 35-card decks with unupgraded cards only.  Each card is assigned a point value. Winning a game earns you points equal to the sum of all points from cards in that deck.  Cards have a default value of 2 points.  Here are the exceptions:

0 point cards

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4vh 4vj 4vl 4vn 52o 52q 52r 55v 590 593 5c7 5f4 5f6 5f9 5fa 5fc 5li 5lm 5og 5oi 5oo 5um 5uo 5up 5ur 61q 61t 6225 point cards

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4t3 4t6 4t7 4ta 4tc 4vk 52k 52m 52s 55p 560 5ic 5ih 5lc 5le 5lj 5oh 5v1 624
Here are a couple sample decks:
Here the 2 pt cards (Quantum Pillar, Momentum, Forest Spirit, Freeze, and Blessing) are offset by the 0 pt cards (Lycanthrope, Nova, Arsenic, Graboid, Deflagration, Fog Shield, and Lightning).  There are no 5 pt cards.

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4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vh 4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52q 52q 55q 55q 590 590 590 590 590 5c1 5c1 5f6 5f6 5i7 5i7 5lf 5og 5og 61q 61qHere the 5 pt cards (Vulture, Aflatoxin, Flooding) supplement the 2 pt cards (Bone Pillar, Bone Dragon, Skull Shield, Plague).

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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52h 52h 52k 52k 52k 52k 52k 52l 52l 52p 52p 52p 52p 52s 52s 52s 52s 5ih 5ih 5ihDUELS

For One Man’s Trash, players are placed in four person groups.  Each player battles the others in his group and the player with the highest point total at the end advances.  Matches are best-of-three.  One week will be given to complete the three matches in your group each round.  If a fight doesn't happen both players lose by default unless one player is clearly more active in trying to find a suitable time.  Event organizer will determine who the most active player was and his or her word is final.  It's a good idea to either record the matches or take screenshots in case something weird like a desync error happens.  Players are subject to the PvP Parasite Warning System  (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,25593.0.html) and a player who gets caught cheating will be permanently banned from all Elements community PvP events.
AFTER DUELS

Winners create battle results threads containing the deck(s) they won with.  If the match ended 2-1 there’s no need for the winner to post his losing deck, but the match loser is required to post his winning deck.  Players should indicate how many points they believe each winning deck is worth.
FORFEITS AND OTHER FAILURES

The Event Organizer may remove players from the event due to lack of participation.
WINNING AND REWARDS

The reward will be a forum award icon    and the respect and admiration of your peers.
I discussed the idea with another player who had an alternate idea: don’t have an established deck size and just count points for the 15 lowest score cards.  Or something like that.

I’d love to see some discussion over which/how many cards should be worth -1 and 4 points, respectively.  Also regarding deck size, the points to win, the concept, etc.

Feedback is appreciated.

[Manipul8r]

Neat idea, perhaps you could use the stats page that shows card usage to determine point values?

[ratcharmer]

I really like the concept behind this event--it forces people to try new decks by rewarding trying things other people aren't.

There is some inconsistency between the  "Duels" section and the "Winning and rewards" section right now. Am I correct in assuming that's just details still being ironed out?

[kev]

There is some inconsistency between the  "Duels" section and the "Winning and rewards" section right now. Am I correct in assuming that's just details still being ironed out?

Yes it was.  FIXED!  Thanks for the feedback. 

[The_Mormegil]

I really like the concept behind this event--it forces people to try new decks by rewarding trying things other people aren't.

...but does it, really? Assuming you build a deck with only the best cards, and that deck has a low score, say, half that of your opponent. What if that deck always wins? I mean, playing with a Discord / BH deck, or a novabow, could net you many wins, while others lose and stay at 0 points. I think it needs to be balanced between win % and high points decks. Also, in my opinion the best way to balance it is to make it short. That way you're incentivated to try out more risky decks, because a winning streak by somebody with over 100 points in his decks will beat you to the final score...

[Scaredgirl]

Unless I remember incorrectly, I already suggested this and was shut down, but I'll say it again, just to make sure.

I like the concept of giving different values to cards, but for me personally, the fact that there are so many "regular" cards, is kind of a letdown. I think that the deckbuilding would be so much more interesting if there was 6 categories, from 0 Points to 5 Points, AND if each category would have roughly (or exactly) the same amount of cards. Others may disagree because it would make the event more complex, but I just think that with the current rules, it's too easy to build a deck with regular cards only, which would make the event lacking depth.

Other thing I'm worried is the fact that there is no balance between different element, for example five of the 0 point cards are from . In perfect world, 0 point cards would be picked so that you take the 2-3 best cards from each element, but I do understand that it's difficult to find that many "good" cards in all elements. However I still think it would make the theme better, because the event is not saying: " has the best cards".

[TStar]

I believe kevkev's choices on the 0 point cards were mostly based off his feedback from talking to unupped PvPers to see the most common cards used.  I know he talked to me extensively looking for feedback on what cards tend to be heavily utilized in the BL, and as I recall there were a few others he talked to as well.  The main reason some elements have cards showing up far more than others is simply because those cards are the ones more heavily relied on in general, and giving them 0 points is trying to discourage players from using common cards and instead be more imaginative in using others.  I don't think it's necessarily pointing out strong vs. weak elements as much as it is pointing out overused vs underused PvP cards.  Black Hole and Adrenaline, for example, aren't really powerful cards themselves but they are very commonly used in some of the most popular PvP decks which is why they were listed.

I think a great solution is the increased tier system you suggested.  This way instead of having 5 cards at 0 points, maybe you have 2 at 0, 2 at 1, and 1 at 2.  Definitely worth exploring further.

While thematically it might be great to have equal numbers of cards from each element in each category, realistically I think trying to force something like that would undermine what I believe the purpose of the event is, to get players to use different cards.  Sure, they might take new 4 or 5 point cards, but if you try saving that something like Immolation and Phoenix are the same value as Titan and Catapult, it will probably just discourage players from exploring Catapult decks.  I'd rather see an unbalanced tier system weighted towards most used to least used over something trying to pair up cards to make the numbers even.  That said, I do agree that some consideration towards relative numbers is necessary so maybe something like at least 1 card from each element in each tier would help to even that out some.  I'll have to sit down and really try to put a list together to see how uneven it looks before I can really know for sure.

[kev]

I think it needs to be balanced between win % and high points decks.

Yup, that's sort of what I'd intended to do.  Those who take high win percentage decks will creep forward in points, and that shouldn't be enough to win the event by itself.  If you can think of a way to add to your suggestion of keeping the event short, I'm open to recommendations.

I think that the deckbuilding would be so much more interesting if there was 6 categories, from 0 Points to 5 Points, AND if each category would have roughly (or exactly) the same amount of cards. Others may disagree because it would make the event more complex, but I just think that with the current rules, it's too easy to build a deck with regular cards only, which would make the event lacking depth.

As I mentioned in chat, fiveish tiers with a set number of cards in each tier had originally been my intent.  I settled on less because making lycan, abom, and purple dragon worth x, y, and z points seemed like an unnecessary constraint (in addition to opening a debate that'd last longer than the event itself).  I'm not afraid of making scoring more complex, but with all the decktypes available it's impossible to balance points for them all.  Ultimately I'd end up unintentionally overweighting points for mono-water or something, thus pushing people towards one deck.  Which defeats the purpose of the event.

Other thing I'm worried is the fact that there is no balance between different element, for example five of the 0 point cards are from .

That doesn't bother me at all.  I don't see a need to balance the elements for this event.  TStar said it better: "I don't think it's ncecessarily pointing out strong vs. weak elements as much as it is pointing out overused vs underused PvP cards."
TStar has been trying to nudge me towards making pillars/pends 1 point and removing shards from the 5 point category.  What does everybody think of that?

[DevilLoss]

it think haveing cards such as shards and relics in your deck are kinda silly because they cant actaully be played and there only ever used in upgraded pvp so i would remove both. also making pillars/pends 1 point i guess would be fair but then also making the selection of which cards are how many points would be a whole lot more fair. you already said you dont care about certian elements and weither there stronger or weaker so why not broaden the point system like SG said and really try and go indepth on which cards are and arent used alot.

[TStar]

I'd really like to continue developing this to a launch.  Have you given any more consideration to making more than the two tiers?

[kev]

I'd really like to continue developing this to a launch.  Have you given any more consideration to making more than the two tiers?

How's this:

0 point cards:

Mark: mark

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

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4vj 4vl 4vn 52o 52q 52r 55r 55v 561 590 593 594 5bu 5c7 5c9 5f6 5f9 5fc 5i9 5ib 5ie 5li 5lk 5lm 5og 5oi 5oo 5rk 5rt 5ru 5um 5uo 5up 61q 61t 622

1 point cards:

Mark: mark

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

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4vh 4vi 4vp 52h 52l 52t 55q 55s 562 58q 58s 58v 5c0 5c2 5c8 5f2 5f4 5fa 5i7 5if 5ii 5lb 5lf 5ll 5oj 5ol 5on 5rl 5ro 5rr 5ur 5uu 5uv 61r 61u 621

2 point cards:

Mark: mark

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

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4sa 4vc 50u 52g 542 55k 576 58o 5aa 5bs 5de 5f0 5gi 5i4 5jm 5l8 5mq 5oc 5pu 5rg 5t2 5uk 606 61o 63a

3 point cards:

Mark: mark

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

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4t4 4t5 4tb 4vd 4ve 500 52i 52j 52p 52u 55m 55t 568 591 592 595 5bt 5c5 5f7 5fb 5i5 5i8 5id 5l9 5la 5lh 5od 5oe 5rj 5rm 5rp 5us 5ut 5v2 61p 620

4 point cards:

Mark: mark

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

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4t3 4tc 4vf 4vg 4vq 52k 52n 52v 55l 55n 55u 58u 596 59c 5c1 5c6 5cg 5f5 5fk 5i6 5ic 5ig 5ld 5lg 5ls 5om 5op 5p0 5rq 5rs 5s4 5ul 5uq 5v8 61v 624

5 point cards:

Mark: mark

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

4vk 4vm 4vo 52m 52s 534 55o 55p 560 58p 58r 58t 5bv 5c3 5c4 5f1 5f3 5f8 5ia 5ih 5io 5lc 5le 5lj 5of 5oh 5ok 5rh 5ri 5rn 5un 5v0 5v1 61s 623 62c

Additional thoughts:
During registration each player may, if they wish, change the point total for one card.  Examples: “kevkev60614 registering, please make Abomination worth 1 less point.  I hate that card.”  or “kevkev60614 will play, add value to Flood because imma use it every round omg I love flooding lololol.”  If multiple players change the same card it would not stack but values of -1 and 6 are possible.

I’d also like to randomize eight elements per four person group each round.  One Trash element and one Treasure element will be applied to each of the four players.  If playerA’s Trash element is Aether his opponent receives -1 point per Aether card in their decks against him.  If his Treasure element is Aether his opponent receives +1 point per Aether card in their decks against him.  When players advance to the next four person group, Trash and Treasure elements are re-randomized.

Thoughts on these changes before I modify the opening post.

Edit: I also edited all my PVP Event posts to include reward icons and the PVP Parasite System information.

[SteppingStone81]

Swapping the 1-point group with the 2-point group (i.e., making pillars and pendula worth only 1 point each) would give much greater incentive for innovative deck building.  Right now, it is probably almost always better to use 2.5 pillars than flooding or aflatoxin - kinda defeats the purpose of the event.

An alternative would be to have the card values range from 0 to 10 points.  People would think twice about passing on aflatoxin when they could get 10 point per afla in their deck.