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Offline Kuu

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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248409#msg248409
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2011, 08:29:22 pm »
Quote
Looking up a fancy term on wikipedia is not enough said.  How bout bringing forth a actual fact then there might be enough said.
An actual fact? Okay, how about the "fact" that the OP is using the fallacy of composition, saying that the actions of a part of the Republican party represent the whole Republican party, and thus this makes his argument completely invalid and not worth our time?

"Nuff said."


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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248415#msg248415
« Reply #73 on: January 15, 2011, 08:35:31 pm »
Better, it seemed your response was directed to my above comment, since there was no Quote.  Which my above didn't seem to be a representation of fallacy of composition.  Hence my questioning of the post.

Offline Kuu

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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248429#msg248429
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2011, 08:53:02 pm »
Alright, sorry for not including a quote. Just a misunderstanding.

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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248592#msg248592
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2011, 11:18:45 pm »
Not to mention that other "republican" parties internationally are doing things the american republicans are blocking like crazy. They are blocking energy reform, when other political groups around the world understand that a change is needed because climate change is real and is a ******* problem. It's becoming a common american practice to just sit and filibuster whatever law you disagree with. Even if you agree with it you might attempt to block it because your party is against it. The ability to filibuster or the requirements to block a law need to change, because I don't think the founding fathers had in mind an american where all you do is sit and bitch if you disagree with a law. They imagined getting things done, working together and not an america so divided that hate media out numbers legitimate news sources.
To my understanding this is an untrue statement.  They are blocking Cap and Trade but cap and trade is by no means energy reform.  It is a redistribution of wealth and will do absolutely nothing to stop climate change.  All it does do is tax people and business for carbon emissions.  Yes you exhale co2 guess what you this means the taxes can affect you also.  Now bring some real energy reform to the table and I'm sure they will talk.  Quite frankly I agree and a majority of america agree's with this blocking of cap and trade.  Polls show that.  As referenced below only 30% of americans support cap and trade.  http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/30/zogby-poll-only-30-of-americans-support-cap-and-trade/
I don't mean cap and trade. Cap and trade doesn't work, it offers incentive to make positive change, but doesn't really push enough to make companies invest in the infrastructure. What I mean is any sort of bill or general action attempting to change major control of our power or transportation away from fossil fuels. This is more on a state by state level, but also applies to federal level because of investing in new forms of transit, both private and mass. The dems have raised funding and most recently hired one of the most brilliant energy minds on the planet to run the DoE, Steven Chu. http://www.energy.gov/organization/dr_steven_chu.htm (http://www.energy.gov/organization/dr_steven_chu.htm)
Who ran the DoE under Bush, Samuel Bodman.
http://people.forbes.com/profile/samuel-w-bodman/104272 (http://people.forbes.com/profile/samuel-w-bodman/104272)

Quote
Looking up a fancy term on wikipedia is not enough said.  How bout bringing forth a actual fact then there might be enough said.
An actual fact? Okay, how about the "fact" that the OP is using the fallacy of composition, saying that the actions of a part of the Republican party represent the whole Republican party, and thus this makes his argument completely invalid and not worth our time?

"Nuff said."
My comments are on the actions and policies of party leaders from BOTH sides and I'm not using fallacy of composition to strengthen my arguments so I really hope that wasn't directed at me.

Offline Kuu

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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248596#msg248596
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2011, 11:22:35 pm »
Quote
My comments are on the actions and policies of party leaders from BOTH sides and I'm not using fallacy of composition to strengthen my arguments so I really hope that wasn't directed at me.
It was directed at the original poster.

Offline EssenceTopic starter

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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248734#msg248734
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2011, 02:02:30 am »
if the top 1% cover 50% of the taxes, dont you think they should have a say what happens... just sayin.
You honestly believe that the bottom 99% of the country has 50% or more of the control of the government in their hands?





An actual fact? Okay, how about the "fact" that the OP is using the fallacy of composition, saying that the actions of a part of the Republican party represent the whole Republican party, and thus this makes his argument completely invalid and not worth our time?

^^ This.   There are, I'm certainly, totally non-Evil republicans out there.  The problem is, none of them are in -- or capable of running for -- Congress.

:p
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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248766#msg248766
« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2011, 02:56:59 am »
if the top 1% cover 50% of the taxes, dont you think they should have a say what happens... just sayin.
You honestly believe that the bottom 99% of the country has 50% or more of the control of the government in their hands?





An actual fact? Okay, how about the "fact" that the OP is using the fallacy of composition, saying that the actions of a part of the Republican party represent the whole Republican party, and thus this makes his argument completely invalid and not worth our time?

^^ This.   There are, I'm certainly, totally non-Evil republicans out there.  The problem is, none of them are in -- or capable of running for -- Congress.

:p
Because they can never win a republican prim because they are not far enought o the right.

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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248789#msg248789
« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2011, 03:36:50 am »
if the top 1% cover 50% of the taxes, dont you think they should have a say what happens... just sayin.
You honestly believe that the bottom 99% of the country has 50% or more of the control of the government in their hands?

Never said that.

My point was that It isnt like they are not contributing a good amount to the goverment.

Honestly, I dont believe you should be punished for succeeding. If you do good, you should get to keep your money imo. Doing good shouldnt mean that you have to get rid of more.
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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248813#msg248813
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2011, 04:01:51 am »
There is a difference between greed and evil incarnate.
There is a difference between contempt for all those with lesser status and evil incarnate.
There is a difference between actively trying to maintain an income gap,  and evil incarnate.
There is a difference between trying to enforce religion on others and evil incarnate.
There is a difference between poorly veiled racism/bigotry and evil incarnate.
There is a difference between using propaganda and knowingly using false arguments and facts and evil incarnate.


etc.


Evil incarnate is a very tough standard to meet.
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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248843#msg248843
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2011, 05:03:29 am »
if the top 1% cover 50% of the taxes, dont you think they should have a say what happens... just sayin.
You honestly believe that the bottom 99% of the country has 50% or more of the control of the government in their hands?

Never said that.
Than what is your point?  If the top 1% control 80% of the government and they pay 50% of the taxes, they're getting a damn good deal for their money -- a much WORSE deal than the bottom 99%.  That's not being "punished for succeeding" -- that's being punished for not being in the top 1%.



Quote
Honestly, I dont believe you should be punished for succeeding. If you do good, you should get to keep your money imo. Doing good shouldn't mean that you have to get rid of more.
And that's the attitude that pisses me off more than anything else.  Paying taxes isn't "getting rid" of anything.  Taxes are how we pay for infrastructure. They're how we pay for schools.  They're how we pay for our defense.  Paying taxes isn't money disappearing, it's an INVESTMENT in your country's future.

The conservative attitude toward taxes is what has led the United States into the modern era of crippled schools and horrible education scores worldwide, of crumbling infrastructure that is increasing transportation costs and thus the costs of almost all goods, of empty Social Security bank accounts and Medicare benefits that don't keep up with inflation.  In the post-WWII era, people in this country paid taxes gladly and often, and for decades, while that attitude held, America was the best country in the world in most measurable respects.  We were in the top 5 in education, in GDP, in happiness, and in technological advancement.

Then, in the 80s, conservatism took over -- on BOTH sides of the political fence -- and now, where are we?  The spin doctors have taught us all that the government is so inefficient that they don't deserve our money, and in turn everything that the government gave us -- the ridiculous prosperity and wealth of the 60s and 70s -- is shot to hell.  The richest 1% of the country control 90% of the wealth, and they spend most of their time and effort driving to increase that already-stupidly-imbalanced proportion to 99.9%.

They don't invest money in America; even the businesses they're supposed to be 'trickling down' through (in what Bush Sr. mockingly called "voodoo economics") are trickling into Mexico, India, China, and basically anywhere that's not America.  They have not only managed to steal, through clever financial tricks, most of the wealth of the bottom 99%, but they've managed to make us feel like we're the losers because we don't have any way to fight back.  They control the government, they control the media, and through those two, they control the narrative.



The truth is far simpler and more chilling: rich people sell us the story of "successful people shouldn't be punished for their success", while at the same time, 85% of those people never earned their own money.  They either inherited it, or the they literally gambled and got lucky, or in many recent circumstances, they got it by defrauding people on a massive scale.  Google "synthetic collateralized debt obligation" sometime. 

These lazy criminals then use their money to paint themselves as hardworking victims when nothing could possibly be further from the truth, and we fall for it because no one in the media or in our country's leadership has the balls to say any different.


The fact is very straightforward: once you have enough money to pay for your everyday life and all of the stuff you want -- something that less than 60% of the country currently has -- you SHOULD pay more taxes than the people who don't have the means to pay for their own food and heat.  The fact that the top 1% ONLY pay 50% of the taxes is the crime here.  Straight up.
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redrox

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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248884#msg248884
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2011, 06:30:16 am »
The rich already pay 60% of there income how much more do you need?  100%?

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Re: US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7539.msg248887#msg248887
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2011, 06:38:40 am »
The rich already pay 60% of there income how much more do you need?  100%?
Quick economics lessons. If the % of money by who owns it is taxed than you're not actually taxing the individual dollar. When the government sets a budget they require a specific amount of income (which they get through taxation), and when that budget can't be met because they can't actually tax enough dollars it causes a deficit.

 

blarg: