US Democratic Party: Evil Incarnate

[Kuu]

If you all want something more recent then I could go off talking about Obama care and partial birth abortion but I don't feel the need to do that.

The post was more of a response to the thread claiming that the Republican party is "evil incarnate". My point is that there is no need to assume that a group is evil just because some of it's members may be (look up the fallacy of composition). If we were to do this we would have to say that almost every group is evil. I am not personally offended by someone claiming the Republican party is evil because I'm not a member of any party but it might be offensive to people that are members of the party. How would you like me saying that you are evil because your someone in your party did something wrong? Not only is it completely bogus logic that should be ignored or laughed hysterically at but it's also not necessary, productive, or true. My original post was meant to highlight the absurdity of this by bringing in a different view point.

The op might want to lock this thread before they are laughed off the forum...... just saying.

You might want to lock your mouth, pal, before you and your KKK budies get laughed of the forum... just saying.

[Uppercut]

Haha, wow. This might be the most amazingly uninformed post on the entire Elements forum.

If you all want something more recent then I could go off talking about Obama care and partial birth abortion but I don't feel the need to do that.

Obamacare is a republican myth. Obama never planned to have mandatory state run health care, his idea was an option paid for by taxes without getting rid of any existing health care providers. If anyting republicans should get behind this bill because it would've actually provided more options and give more incentive for big business health care providers to step up their game. Instead we ended up with a watered down bill that doesn't even address the issue.

The post was more of a response to the thread claiming that the Republican party is "evil incarnate". My point is that there is no need to assume that a group is evil just because some of it's members may be (look up the fallacy of composition).

I think its safe to say that a group of fat cats who manipulate their followers with false information, who's goal is to prop up businesses with no concern for the public, has an interest in protecting health care providers who openly admit they'll drop patients because of "pre-existing conditions", who try to get rid of parts of our history because teaching about liberal people is somehow bad education, who want science out of science classes, who want unequal rights for gays just because it isn't biblical, who want a religious state to rule over non-religious people, who want to punish people who are incapable of working by getting rid of welfare while giving tax breaks to people who don't need it, qualifies as evil.

If we were to do this we would have to say that almost every group is evil.

The difference is that the republicans have no qualms with evil leadership.

I am not personally offended by someone claiming the Republican party is evil because I'm not a member of any party but it might be offensive to people that are members of the party.

Good. People who are republicans should be offended. The facts state that they are wrong, and if they are willingly ignorant they deserve to have the facts slammed in their faces and to be publically ridiculed. If they can't adapt to reality than their party should cease to exist. (I'm not advocating murder, I am advocating that reasonable people leave the republican party and let it dissolve.)

How would you like me saying that you are evil because your someone in your party did something wrong? Not only is it completely bogus logic that should be ignored or laughed hysterically at but it's also not necessary, productive, or true. My original post was meant to highlight the absurdity of this by bringing in a different view point.

I wouldn't take offense if you called me evil, I'd feel the need for clarification though. It could just be that we have different moral standards and I'm more than glad with not having the moral standards of a conservative.

You might want to lock your mouth, pal, before you and your KKK budies get laughed of the forum... just saying.

But the KKK are so conservative they want to repeal liberal legislation. Its almost like you didn't think before you typed that.

[redrox]

Obamacare is a republican myth. Obama never planned to have mandatory state run health care, his idea was an option paid for by taxes without getting rid of any existing health care providers. If anyting republicans should get behind this bill because it would've actually provided more options and give more incentive for big business health care providers to step up their game. Instead we ended up with a watered down bill that doesn't even address the issue.

But the KKK are so conservative they want to repeal liberal legislation. Its almost like you didn't think before you typed that.

You're first point about obamacare is an all out lie.  Obama has been quoted many times saying he is a proponent of single payer health care.  Meaning state run health care, he still wants single payer,  obamacare is just the path to that goal.  You have to bankrupt the insurance companies so the government can step in and take control of health care which is 1/6 gdp.

As for your 2nd point I dare you to educate yourself and google "number of black abortions"  you will find tons of sites stating that abortion is the New genocide.  But wait isn't pro choice a major point for all democrats, dang that almost sounds racist, that genocide thing and all.   Just saying pull your head out of the sand.

[LongDono]

If you all want something more recent then I could go off talking about Obama care and partial birth abortion but I don't feel the need to do that.

The post was more of a response to the thread claiming that the Republican party is "evil incarnate". My point is that there is no need to assume that a group is evil just because some of it's members may be (look up the fallacy of composition). If we were to do this we would have to say that almost every group is evil. I am not personally offended by someone claiming the Republican party is evil because I'm not a member of any party but it might be offensive to people that are members of the party. How would you like me saying that you are evil because your someone in your party did something wrong? Not only is it completely bogus logic that should be ignored or laughed hysterically at but it's also not necessary, productive, or true. My original post was meant to highlight the absurdity of this by bringing in a different view point.

The op might want to lock this thread before they are laughed off the forum...... just saying.

You might want to lock your mouth, pal, before you and your KKK budies get laughed of the forum... just saying.

This post proves you can't put up a good point. Instead of saying in detail why the new healthcare bill is bad you call it obamacare. Name calling is for those who have shitty/terrible debate skills.
At your reply to my post I just have   

[OldTrees]

Good Day Friends,

I had to do some research on this. I don't know much about American Politics.

From what I gather there is two large "parties" in your system.

Democratic, and Republican.

If you say that the Democratic Party is "evil", then I must assume you mean the Republican Party is "good".

(please confirm that)

and if you would, can you make a case for "good" parties in America?

May I instead make the proposition that power tends to corrupt and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely?
AKA "Any party in power will tend (in total) to increase the power of government at the cost of liberty."
To check this claim see how much of the Democrats focused on restricting Fiscal Liberty instead of or more than increasing Social Liberty (their other platform)
Or vice versa for the Republicans: "See how much of the Republicans focused on restricting Social Liberty instead of or more than increasing Fiscal Liberty (their other platform)" [or more recently betraying Fiscal Liberty with bailouts.]

[Uppercut]

You're first point about obamacare is an all out lie.  Obama has been quoted many times saying he is a proponent of single payer health care.  Meaning state run health care, he still wants single payer,  obamacare is just the path to that goal.

But a single payer system was never in any of the proposed bills. Take note that I never said Obama isn't into universal health care, I was talking about his policy making. You know, the thing that matters as a president.

You have to bankrupt the insurance companies so the government can step in and take control of health care which is 1/6 gdp.

This is true, but you're also leaving out the most important facts. We spend more per capita, and per person, on health care than any other country in the world. 17% of all Americans don't have health care because they can't afford it. Americans pay a ton for health care and get snubbed by the industry. If the government could run it it'd cost less because people wouldn't have to pay premiums on conditions they have no control over, and the industry couldn't raise costs. Why are you against the government doing their job again?

As for your 2nd point I dare you to educate yourself and google "number of black abortions"  you will find tons of sites stating that abortion is the New genocide.  But wait isn't pro choice a major point for all democrats, dang that almost sounds racist, that genocide thing and all.   Just saying pull your head out of the sand.

I almost don't want to acknowledge this part of your post because of how absurd the premise is. Abortion isn't mandatory so it doesn't matter what percentage of what race babies are aborted. It isn't genocide because the government isn't murdering anyone.

[Uppercut]

 I wouldn't say both parties are acting about 50/50 as much as I'd say Americans tend to hold extremely bias views for one party or the other so both parties are like 90/10, it just depends on who you ask.

[Essence]

I agree with Uppercut.  I live in a blue state Capitol, so in my area, the Democrats are the side of 'good' in theory, but the reality is that most people will readily admit that both parties have a history of sucking in practice.

[gavsword]

I agree with Uppercut.  I live in a blue state Capitol, so in my area, the Democrats are the side of 'good' in theory, but the reality is that most people will readily admit that both parties have a history of sucking in practice.

I live in a red state capitol, but I have seen both sides run it. Frankly when the republicans came in they didn't care about education, and all the cut backs they made hurt my state a lot more than it helped it. When the democrats came into office, they tried to do the right thing, and things went in the right direction for a while, but then things slowly crawled to a slow stop.

Obamacare is a republican myth. Obama never planned to have mandatory state run health care, his idea was an option paid for by taxes without getting rid of any existing health care providers. If anyting republicans should get behind this bill because it would've actually provided more options and give more incentive for big business health care providers to step up their game. Instead we ended up with a watered down bill that doesn't even address the issue.

But the KKK are so conservative they want to repeal liberal legislation. Its almost like you didn't think before you typed that.

You're first point about obamacare is an all out lie.  Obama has been quoted many times saying he is a proponent of single payer health care.  Meaning state run health care, he still wants single payer,  obamacare is just the path to that goal.  You have to bankrupt the insurance companies so the government can step in and take control of health care which is 1/6 gdp.

As for your 2nd point I dare you to educate yourself and google "number of black abortions"  you will find tons of sites stating that abortion is the New genocide.  But wait isn't pro choice a major point for all democrats, dang that almost sounds racist, that genocide thing and all.   Just saying pull your head out of the sand.

You are really misinformed. You do understand that many of the abortions you talk about are people either being born in situations where they could not survive/support a baby. Other situations include children out of wedlock for very conservative families. There are all kinds of situations where abortions will occur, and even if they are outlawed they will be done illegally, I can guarantee that but at a higher risk to the mother.

And if you're calling abortions genocide, then you can go to hell. You have no idea what is a genocide. Try googling fucking Darfur. If abortions = war where your family kills each other before age 8, where you live in constant fear that this day is your last day on earth, if you are born to kill people just like you to survive, then damn something is wrong with you.

[OldTrees]

May I instead make the proposition that power tends to corrupt and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely?
AKA "Any party in power will tend (in total) to increase the power of government at the cost of liberty."
To check this claim see how much of the Democrats focused on restricting Fiscal Liberty instead of or more than increasing Social Liberty (their other platform)
Or vice versa for the Republicans: "See how much of the Republicans focused on restricting Social Liberty instead of or more than increasing Fiscal Liberty (their other platform)" [or more recently betraying Fiscal Liberty with bailouts.]

I will agree to that quote.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." - John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834–1902).

...

Then may I ask (to anyone in America) is there a general consensus of who is acting on the side of "good" at this moment in time? (in terms of the party system) or is both acting "good/bad" on certain things.  (both are acting 50/50)

It depends on the ideology of the american you ask
Democrat fear Republican Governance ~66% and Democrat Governance ~16%
Republicans fear Republican Governance ~16% and Democrat Governance ~66%
^this statistic was remembered from a second hand statistic in a recent Reason Magazine measuring the % of people that fear their government.
Libertarians probably (personal experience) fear the government ~90% of the time.

[OldTrees]

It depends on the ideology of the american you ask

What would you say is the "deciding?" factor that dives American's view on politics?
Is it family discussion? Mainly the media (and just locally? or nationally?) Live Forum Debate? (i don't know you practice that... to be honest in your country).

Or propaganda via some other source? Say like the internet? Or college education? Or talks with religious leaders?

This would be a good question for a study to investigate.

I personally would tie it back to concepts were given moral emphasis during the formation of moral intuitions.
Fairness of opportunity vs fairness of results is a big subconscious divider between Right and Left on fiscal policy.
Of course there is always the influence of the parents, teachers and society where the side with the strongest argument during development (when the child doesn't have the knowledge to defend the other side) will develop a good hold which may be shaken when the child leaves the nest.

[Kuu]

This post proves you can't put up a good point. Instead of saying in detail why the new healthcare bill is bad you call it obamacare. Name calling is for those who have shitty/terrible debate skills.

Who did I call a name? I called the healthcare bill Obamacare because simply calling it "that one healthcare bill" would be to vague.

And you are right, your post telling me to lock this thread before I get laughed off the forum was much more useful to the topic than my post saying that claiming a party is evil because of some of it's members being evil is wrong. Thank you for your overwhelmingly helpful contribution to the discussion.

Also I think it is worth mentioning that this is a discussion on a forum, not a "debate" so it really doesn't matter if you believe I have any debating skills or not.

Name calling may be for those who have "shitty/terrible" debate skills (which am I not conserned about because I did not call anybody a name) but writing my points off and attacking my character is just as fallacious.

You say I have no debate skills because I supposedly called someone a name, but you just make fun of me without even commenting on the topic. What's your problem?

Any other insults you have to get off to feel better about yourself?

but the reality is that most people will readily admit that both parties have a history of sucking in practice.

Agreed. I don't like either party.

If you say that the Democratic Party is "evil", then I must assume you mean the Republican Party is "good".

(please confirm that)

and if you would, can you make a case for "good" parties in America?

Nope. They are both bad. And I don't think either party is really "evil", my original post was a response to the thread "US Republican Party: Evil Incarnate".

But the KKK are so conservative they want to repeal liberal legislation. Its almost like you didn't think before you typed that.

Maybe so, I don't really remember what I thought. I think in one big chain of thought (occasionally interupted) and don't type everything I think. I think at the time I was probably thinking about the origins of the KKK being democratic. The KKK was Democratic, President Lincoln (the one that freed the slaves) was Republican, and the Democrats somehow hijacked the civil rights movement.